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Old
02-07-2007, 08:22 AM
  #1
canadian_man_44
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Anyone see anything wrong with this.....

It's the Montreal lineup from the Carolina game.

R. Bonk
F. Bouillon
M. Dandenault
A. Downey
C. Higgins
M. Johnson
S. Koivu
M. Komisarek
A. Kovalev
M. Lapierre
G. Latendresse
G. Murray
J. Niinimaa
T. Plekanec
C. Rivet
M. Ryder
S. Souray
M. Streit

I know Samsonov hasn't produced lately, but, Downey and Murray. Come on now Carbo. How can he do that after making statements like this, and I quote. "I look at what players do on the ice. At the time, I felt the players on the ice would help us win more," and "I'd rather have Sergei in my lineup with 15 goals and playing well. Those are the decisions I'm paid to make. I had to feel that I put 20 guys on the ice that can win."

What exactly have Downey and Murray done the would make anyone feel they could contribute to winning?

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02-07-2007, 08:26 AM
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Bob Bastards
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Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post
What exactly have Downey and Murray done the would make anyone feel they could contribute to winning?
Work there a$$ off?
Which is more then Sammmy give us since the start of the season.
We are not in need of talent, we need work, this is the part that is missing for a couple of year now.

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02-07-2007, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob ******** View Post
Work there a$$ off?
Which is more then Sammmy give us since the start of the season.
We are not in need of talent, we need work, this is the part that is missing for a couple of year now.
That's BS and you know it. What exactly are we missing? Scoring. Who scores goals? Talented players. Yes, there needs to be work, but, the whole team needs to work. Having a couple no talents like Downey and Murray on the ice is defeating the purpose no matter how hard they work. Murray was already waived once this season. Was that because of his talent or his hard work???????????????????????????? Downey is the resident tough guy who has only two problems. He can't play hockey any better then my 6 year old stepdaughter and he can't fight any better then my 7 year old son.

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02-07-2007, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post
It's the Montreal lineup from the Carolina game.

R. Bonk
F. Bouillon
M. Dandenault
A. Downey
C. Higgins
M. Johnson
S. Koivu
M. Komisarek
A. Kovalev
M. Lapierre
G. Latendresse
G. Murray
J. Niinimaa
T. Plekanec
C. Rivet
M. Ryder
S. Souray
M. Streit

I know Samsonov hasn't produced lately, but, Downey and Murray. Come on now Carbo. How can he do that after making statements like this, and I quote. "I look at what players do on the ice. At the time, I felt the players on the ice would help us win more," and "I'd rather have Sergei in my lineup with 15 goals and playing well. Those are the decisions I'm paid to make. I had to feel that I put 20 guys on the ice that can win."

What exactly have Downey and Murray done the would make anyone feel they could contribute to winning?
Totally agree. These two guys are tools and I have no idea why they are in the lineup.

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02-07-2007, 09:05 AM
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Ya, the guys playing 7 and 9 minutes are losing games for us.

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Old
02-07-2007, 09:20 AM
  #6
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A much better line-up than 1 year ago, hell, better that what we had 5 years ago

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Old
02-07-2007, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post
I know Samsonov hasn't produced lately, but, Downey and Murray. Come on now Carbo. How can he do that after making statements like this, and I quote. "I look at what players do on the ice. At the time, I felt the players on the ice would help us win more," and "I'd rather have Sergei in my lineup with 15 goals and playing well. Those are the decisions I'm paid to make. I had to feel that I put 20 guys on the ice that can win."

What exactly have Downey and Murray done the would make anyone feel they could contribute to winning?
I think a better question has been what has Sammy done that makes anyone feel he can contribute to winning. I fail to see how his constant whining, cray-baby antics and trade demands are winning us games.

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02-07-2007, 09:27 AM
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Hey Tuggy, the thing is is that you have somehow managed to totally miss the point. Carbo said he felt the players on the ice would help them win more and he had to feel that he put 20 guys on the ice that can win. Excuse me, but what the heck does that mean???? Can anyone honestly tell me that they couldn't find a couple more players in Hamilton that could do more on the ice and give them a better chance of winning then Murray and Downey???? How about Grabovski and Kostitsyn? Have they not proven in their limited chances to play in the NHL this year that they have more skill then Murray and Downey? Last night I almost had a heart attack when I happened to see both Murray and Downey on the ice at the same time. That's just ridiculous.

The bottom line is there are better players who would give the Habs a better chance of winning then the two in question. My question is, how the hell can Carbo make stupid statements like that when it is quite obvious there are better players in the system????

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02-07-2007, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ngc_5128 View Post
I think a better question has been what has Sammy done that makes anyone feel he can contribute to winning. I fail to see how his constant whining, cray-baby antics and trade demands are winning us games.
Again, someone who has missed the point. If you say you are putting the 20 guys on the ice that can win, at least put the best 20, not the best 18 and two leftovers from the last Christmas Turkey dinner.

If you had actually read my post you would see that I said Sammy has not been producing. Never once did I say that he should be playing. Never once did I say that he can or will contribute to winning. The point is we have at least two guys playing in Hamilton that have proven that they deserve to play for Montreal a lot more then Downey and Murray. IMO, they should put those two on waivers the same as Sammy.

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02-07-2007, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post
It's the Montreal lineup from the Carolina game.

R. Bonk
F. Bouillon
M. Dandenault
A. Downey
C. Higgins
M. Johnson
S. Koivu
M. Komisarek
A. Kovalev
M. Lapierre
G. Latendresse
G. Murray
J. Niinimaa
T. Plekanec
C. Rivet
M. Ryder
S. Souray
M. Streit

I know Samsonov hasn't produced lately, but, Downey and Murray. Come on now Carbo. How can he do that after making statements like this, and I quote. "I look at what players do on the ice. At the time, I felt the players on the ice would help us win more," and "I'd rather have Sergei in my lineup with 15 goals and playing well. Those are the decisions I'm paid to make. I had to feel that I put 20 guys on the ice that can win."

What exactly have Downey and Murray done the would make anyone feel they could contribute to winning?
I agree completely.

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02-07-2007, 09:37 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post

I know Samsonov hasn't produced lately, but, Downey and Murray. Come on now Carbo.

What exactly have Downey and Murray done the would make anyone feel they could contribute to winning?
Sammy being waived has more to do with salary cap than hard work. If Sammy was making $1 million and UFA at the end of the season he'd be in the lineup.

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02-07-2007, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Doctor House View Post
Sammy being waived has more to do with salary cap than hard work. If Sammy was making $1 million and UFA at the end of the season he'd be in the lineup.
At that price, he would have been dumped alot earlier for playing as crappy as he has been.

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02-07-2007, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post
Again, someone who has missed the point. If you say you are putting the 20 guys on the ice that can win, at least put the best 20, not the best 18 and two leftovers from the last Christmas Turkey dinner.

If you had actually read my post you would see that I said Sammy has not been producing. Never once did I say that he should be playing. Never once did I say that he can or will contribute to winning. The point is we have at least two guys playing in Hamilton that have proven that they deserve to play for Montreal a lot more then Downey and Murray. IMO, they should put those two on waivers the same as Sammy.
No, I saw what your point was, I just don't agree with it. You are being awful short sighted if you think pluggers who can't score can't win you games.

Grabs is out for 2 weeks with an injury, and Kosty works only slightly harder then Samsonov, which is why he is in Hamilton to begin with. Who else is there to call up that is ready? Ferland? Milroy? 2 more pluggers that are in the same league as Murray and Downey.

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02-07-2007, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ngc_5128 View Post
At that price, he would have been dumped alot earlier for playing as crappy as he has been.
I agree completely with that. A lower paid player would have been waived, traded or sent home for playing like Sammy has and it would have taken them about 15 games instead of 54.

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02-07-2007, 09:51 AM
  #15
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Murray-Lapierre-Downey is an energy line. No they don't score much. That doesn't make them useless.

Remember the start of the first, where in the first few minutes the Habs were looking shaky? The fourth line stepped on the ice, had a few good hits, forechecked hard, kept the puck down low, and from that point on the Habs had a much better, much more closely fought period.

Yes, I'd rather have energy players who are better than Downey, but Begin is hurt.

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02-07-2007, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ngc_5128 View Post
No, I saw what your point was, I just don't agree with it. You are being awful short sighted if you think pluggers who can't score can't win you games.

Grabs is out for 2 weeks with an injury, and Kosty works only slightly harder then Samsonov, which is why he is in Hamilton to begin with. Who else is there to call up that is ready? Ferland? Milroy? 2 more pluggers that are in the same league as Murray and Downey.
Didn't know about Grabs being injured. I have never said I thought Sammy didn't work hard enough. He plays his own style and gets plenty of chances. The strike against him is he seems to have lost the ability to put the puck in the mesh. Kosty may be similar in work effort and talent, but, maybe he can put the puck in the net more. Lord knows he can put the puck in more then Downey and Murray. As far as Ferland, why not give him a chance. He really hasn't had much of a chance in Montreal. Maybe he could contribute and he'd surely give more then Downey and Murray. You never know until you give it a try, then if he doesn't, send him down.

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02-07-2007, 10:03 AM
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Downey, and especially Murray, looked great last night. This team actually needs energy at least as much as it needs goals, and they provided it. I say keep 'em in. Well, until Begin comes back, of course. But who knows, by then somebody else could be hurt or waived. Either way, we don't suffer one bit from having those guys playing.

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02-07-2007, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post
Didn't know about Grabs being injured. I have never said I thought Sammy didn't work hard enough. He plays his own style and gets plenty of chances. The strike against him is he seems to have lost the ability to put the puck in the mesh. Kosty may be similar in work effort and talent, but, maybe he can put the puck in the net more. Lord knows he can put the puck in more then Downey and Murray. As far as Ferland, why not give him a chance. He really hasn't had much of a chance in Montreal. Maybe he could contribute and he'd surely give more then Downey and Murray. You never know until you give it a try, then if he doesn't, send him down.
This has been bandied around for a couple of weeks now, maybe longer, but Sammy stopped going to the net. That is his #1 problem. Even if he mailed it in every other night, going to the net on a regular basis would mostly even things out. Heck, going to the net turned Streit into a perimeter D-man to a 1st line winger

I think Ferland will get his big chance next year, as I doubt Murray will be resigned after being waived this year.

Murray and Downey, right now, are doing two things that most of the Habs have gotten away from during their recent slide. They are hitting everything that moves and they are hitting anything that moves hard. When the Habs were doing great earlier in the season, almost everyone on the teams was doing this every game. That, combined with our speed, made us very hard to play against. They got into the habit of not doing this when they had the flu at XMas time (and who can blame them, really) but they forgot to start hitting again when they were healthy. Hopefully the dismal performance against the Isles woke them up (looks good so far).

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02-07-2007, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post
Again, someone who has missed the point. If you say you are putting the 20 guys on the ice that can win, at least put the best 20, not the best 18 and two leftovers from the last Christmas Turkey dinner.

If you had actually read my post you would see that I said Sammy has not been producing. Never once did I say that he should be playing. Never once did I say that he can or will contribute to winning. The point is we have at least two guys playing in Hamilton that have proven that they deserve to play for Montreal a lot more then Downey and Murray. IMO, they should put those two on waivers the same as Sammy.
It's not about putting the best 20 players on the ice. It's about putting the best group of 20 players. Carbonneau likes the effort and intensity from Downey and Murray. He feels that they make the line-up better, even if Perezhogin or Samsonov or Kostitysn or whoever has more skill and talent.

Anyway, MathMan said it best.

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02-07-2007, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post
That's BS and you know it. What exactly are we missing? Scoring. Who scores goals? Talented players. Yes, there needs to be work, but, the whole team needs to work. Having a couple no talents like Downey and Murray on the ice is defeating the purpose no matter how hard they work. Murray was already waived once this season. Was that because of his talent or his hard work???????????????????????????? Downey is the resident tough guy who has only two problems. He can't play hockey any better then my 6 year old stepdaughter and he can't fight any better then my 7 year old son.
The problems are not Downey and Murray. There are not on the line-up to score goals, there are there to bring energy and grit and that's exactly what they did.

If you see it in simple and plain view, what is wrong in this hockey team right now is that its top forwards are not producing. Even though you replace Downey and Murray by Samsonov and Perezhogin, it does not solve the problem and fact that our better players like Higgins, Koivu, Ryder, Latendresse, Kovalev (although he scored last night) are not producing at all.

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02-07-2007, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post
It's the Montreal lineup from the Carolina game.

R. Bonk
F. Bouillon
M. Dandenault
A. Downey
C. Higgins
M. Johnson
S. Koivu
M. Komisarek
A. Kovalev
M. Lapierre
G. Latendresse
G. Murray
J. Niinimaa
T. Plekanec
C. Rivet
M. Ryder
S. Souray
M. Streit

I know Samsonov hasn't produced lately, but, Downey and Murray. Come on now Carbo. How can he do that after making statements like this, and I quote. "I look at what players do on the ice. At the time, I felt the players on the ice would help us win more," and "I'd rather have Sergei in my lineup with 15 goals and playing well. Those are the decisions I'm paid to make. I had to feel that I put 20 guys on the ice that can win."

What exactly have Downey and Murray done the would make anyone feel they could contribute to winning?
As fourth line wingers, playing 5 minutes per game, they won't hurt you.

How come people are so critical of the fourth line play, and don't react to our top lines mediocrities ?

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02-07-2007, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post
That's BS and you know it. What exactly are we missing? Scoring. Who scores goals? Talented players. Yes, there needs to be work, but, the whole team needs to work. Having a couple no talents like Downey and Murray on the ice is defeating the purpose no matter how hard they work. Murray was already waived once this season. Was that because of his talent or his hard work???????????????????????????? Downey is the resident tough guy who has only two problems. He can't play hockey any better then my 6 year old stepdaughter and he can't fight any better then my 7 year old son.
All I know is that I would much rather have Samsonov in the lineup with about 15 goals under his belt, playing good and hard every game and wanting to win. BUT since Samsonov refuses to do any of that, then I welcome Murray and Downey to the lineup....at least they give a solid effort every game they play and they play their roles very well. Leave it to Kovalev, Koivu, Higgins, Plekanec, Ryder, Latandresse, Streit and the skilled players to put the puck in the net and let Murray and Downey play their roles on the 4th line.....banging bodies and playing tuff.
GOOD RIDDENCE SAMSONOV.....you never showed you wanted to play in Montreal since the season started....it was always all about him....and not about the team. We have no room for that type of player.

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02-07-2007, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by habitué View Post
As fourth line wingers, playing 5 minutes per game, they won't hurt you.

How come people are so critical of the fourth line play, and don't react to our top lines mediocrities ?
Again, someone who misses the point. The 20 players who give you a chance to win is what Carbo said he was putting on the ice. That includes the fourth line. What is missing with this team. I'm sure most will agree scoring has been the issue that needs to be dealt with. The point is there are players in the Montreal Canadiens system that have the ability to score goals. Murray and Downey do not have that ability. Read the post and figure out what the point is before you go off on it. Thanks.

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02-07-2007, 11:10 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by canadian_man_44 View Post
Again, someone who misses the point.
At this rate, perhaps you are the one missing the point...

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02-07-2007, 11:20 AM
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I think Downey & Murray had good games to be honest. They hit, blocked a couple shots and I even think they generated one or two scoring chances. What more do you want from your fourth line?

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