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Old
02-07-2007, 01:36 PM
  #51
in the hall
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I like it.. I like it a lot. I hope they become sellers to because this team will not go far if they even make the playoffs. I hope the Rangers staff sees this and the positive response they are receiving.

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02-07-2007, 01:38 PM
  #52
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So far I haven't been able to complain about any youth moves for 3 years.

Until they give me reason to in that particular area, I have no beef.

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02-07-2007, 01:42 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
So far I haven't been able to complain about any youth moves for 3 years.

Until they give me reason to in that particular area, I have no beef.
i have plenty of complaints as far as in house youth moves go

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02-07-2007, 01:47 PM
  #54
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So Sather turned down Avery, Norstrom and Conroy for Staal? And he'd give his left nut for Crosby? That's amazing. That's why he's the smartest GM in the NHL. No other GM would make those two decisions. My brain hurts just trying to figure out the monumental feat that must have been in terms of brain power for him to even conceive of doing those things.

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02-07-2007, 01:52 PM
  #55
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I would have countered with Adam Hall,Aaron Ward and Marek Malik for Jack Johnson.Lombardi has some pair on him asking for Marc Staal in return for nearly $8 million in combined salaries

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02-07-2007, 01:56 PM
  #56
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This is refreshing to hear. What I do like is that when he was presented with a deal involving two 30+ year olds(Norstrom/Conroy) and a 26 year old(Avery), he went after the 26 year old seperately. That's why I love the Avery deal so much because he is the rare player that provides skill along with grit and he is only 26. Dealing for him wasn't a sign that we are strong buyers at the deadline because he was a longterm move so even if we fall out of the playoff race Avery will still be a good move.

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02-07-2007, 02:00 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
i have plenty of complaints as far as in house youth moves go
I gotta tell you I really don't.

I see what we have right now as falling into two categories.

Not ready or overrated.

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02-07-2007, 02:01 PM
  #58
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Could the Rangers...

even have afforded the deal with Norstrom, given their current position, those that need to be signed and any potential UFAs out there? These days I wonder how much of Sather's doings are because of the cap or because he thinks it's the right thing to do otherwise. I honestly do not know.

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02-07-2007, 02:04 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
He's also the main reason behind our 7 year drought from the playoffs. He mortgaged the future for that '94 cup and the chances of another.

And technically I didn't say anything bad or untrue about Smith. He did trade youth for vets. I also didn't say anything great or untrue about Sather. He hasn't traded youth for vets in 3 years. People ride the organization and GM for not rebuilding but when they finally do they ride the team for not winning. No wonder we never have a rebuild here, everyone wants it both ways.
I agree with chosen. After living through Sather, Smith doesn't seem so bad. His draft record here was spotty, which was odd because he was part of the Red Wing draft successes of long ago.

He brought in the right people in 94 (Larmer, Matteau, Anderson, Noonan), and I will be forever grateful. Can you imagine if we stunk like this now, and were going on 67 years without a cup? Everyone still chanting 1940? Ugh.

I think maybe he was forced to spend like a moron in the late 90s by the powers that be. I think in the current salary-cap NHL he can be a good GM again.

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02-07-2007, 02:16 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Therein lies the loophole.
Exactly. Obviously he isnt going to Move Staal after seeing that deal. But whom else would he Consider "Future of the Franchise".

I really wonder what they have in store for Montoya.

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02-07-2007, 02:20 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
I agree with chosen. After living through Sather, Smith doesn't seem so bad. His draft record here was spotty, which was odd because he was part of the Red Wing draft successes of long ago.

He brought in the right people in 94 (Larmer, Matteau, Anderson, Noonan), and I will be forever grateful. Can you imagine if we stunk like this now, and were going on 67 years without a cup? Everyone still chanting 1940? Ugh.

I think maybe he was forced to spend like a moron in the late 90s by the powers that be. I think in the current salary-cap NHL he can be a good GM again.
Smith was alot better than what people gave him credit for. He did blow some trades and our high end draft picks were not the best but if you actually put his draft record up against the rest his resume is no better no worse for the most part.

I think the only thing Sather has brought to this team was his experience and credibility, and now thats not looking too hot either. He's been very underwhelming to say the least.

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02-07-2007, 02:27 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
I agree with chosen. After living through Sather, Smith doesn't seem so bad. His draft record here was spotty, which was odd because he was part of the Red Wing draft successes of long ago.

He brought in the right people in 94 (Larmer, Matteau, Anderson, Noonan), and I will be forever grateful. Can you imagine if we stunk like this now, and were going on 67 years without a cup? Everyone still chanting 1940? Ugh.

I think maybe he was forced to spend like a moron in the late 90s by the powers that be. I think in the current salary-cap NHL he can be a good GM again.
anybody who's on this board is grateful to smith for '94 and everything preceding that.

but the much-loathed norstrom+/kurri+ deal absolutely sucked. nobody held a gun to smith's head for that. as bad as the lindros or possibly even bure deal was for sather, those were nothing compared to that deal by neil.

and if we're going to use the excuse of higher-ups forcing smith to spend, the same can and probably should be applied to sather as well.

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02-07-2007, 02:35 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by MyCaptain11 View Post
anybody who's on this board is grateful to smith for '94 and everything preceding that.

but the much-loathed norstrom+/kurri+ deal absolutely sucked. nobody held a gun to smith's head for that. as bad as the lindros or possibly even bure deal was for sather, those were nothing compared to that deal by neil.

and if we're going to use the excuse of higher-ups forcing smith to spend, the same can and probably should be applied to sather as well.
Oh man that was a bad trade. But I think Smith was under a 'make the playoffs at any cost' mandate. Not sure if he would have made that trade if he was allowed to think 2-3 years into the future.

The difference with Sather is that he laughed at us from Edmonton, and said any GM can win the cup if they spend enough money. When he came aboard and was given money to spend, he was just as bad as Smith at it. I think that's my biggest problem with Sather, he did more for the Rangers when he was Edmonton GM than he's done for us as Ranger GM.

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02-07-2007, 02:46 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I gotta tell you I really don't.

I see what we have right now as falling into two categories.

Not ready or overrated.
i am not talking about baranka, immonen, pock, dawes etc.. although i do wish the rangers would do a little more as far as seeing how they do in the nhl (don't mean immonen since i feel they gave him a chance and just didn't like what they saw)

i mean prucha, tyutin, even lundqvist early on

renney has been terrible as far as being patient with youngsters.. accountability.. giving them not only the opportunities but rewarding them if they do well

finally he is forced to play pock and girardi over a scrub like malik and what a surprise how this improves our defense

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02-07-2007, 02:48 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
So Sather turned down Avery, Norstrom and Conroy for Staal? And he'd give his left nut for Crosby? That's amazing. That's why he's the smartest GM in the NHL. No other GM would make those two decisions. My brain hurts just trying to figure out the monumental feat that must have been in terms of brain power for him to even conceive of doing those things.
i'm glad you're being sarcastic

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02-07-2007, 03:32 PM
  #66
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I could give Sather hell for the first 3 years of his tenure, but for the last 3 or 4, I don't really have any real complaints about the youth, like Edge says.

If you asked me last year, it might be a different story, but suddenly this year, I've realised what's been going on. I'd love to have some more top-end talent in the system, but Sather has quietly CREATED a system where none existed before. You could blame Sather for not having worked harder on that from the beginning of his time here, but how long do you really think it takes to build up a decent system? It takes at least 3 or 4 years of good drafting and careful management of the entire organization.

As for Renney's treatment of youth: I agree he hasn't really helped Prucha out too much (but then, Prucha also had a horrid first half of the season) and what he's done with Pck has often been totally perplexing.

How exactly has he mismanaged Tyutin, though? Toots has played major minutes for the Rangers this season. Even though I think he is solid out there, it's probably worth noting that he gets his minutes even though he's got the worst +/- on the team right now.


Last edited by 007: 02-07-2007 at 03:41 PM.
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02-07-2007, 03:40 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by MyCaptain11 View Post
anybody who's on this board is grateful to smith for '94 and everything preceding that.

but the much-loathed norstrom+/kurri+ deal absolutely sucked. nobody held a gun to smith's head for that. as bad as the lindros or possibly even bure deal was for sather, those were nothing compared to that deal by neil.

and if we're going to use the excuse of higher-ups forcing smith to spend, the same can and probably should be applied to sather as well.
Well, don't think for one second that if they dusted the Norstrom/Kurri deal for prints, Mark Messier's hands weren't all over it. Just something to think about for an alleged future GM... #11 was wagging the dog the whole time he was here and there's no way Smith would have made that deal without input from him.

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02-07-2007, 03:57 PM
  #68
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I would have countered with Adam Hall,Aaron Ward and Marek Malik for Jack Johnson.Lombardi has some pair on him asking for Marc Staal in return for nearly $8 million in combined salaries
And that's exactly why this "rumor" is BS.

Just the fact that they're two aging vets that are going to be taking up much needed room for next year - add to that a pesky guy in Avery - for a good future d-man just doesn't make the kind of sense that it should. But it's the NY Post, so I guess viable reasoning isn't needed, to begin with.

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02-07-2007, 04:09 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
He's also the main reason behind our 7 year drought from the playoffs. He mortgaged the future for that '94 cup and the chances of another.

And technically I didn't say anything bad or untrue about Smith. He did trade youth for vets. I also didn't say anything great or untrue about Sather. He hasn't traded youth for vets in 3 years. People ride the organization and GM for not rebuilding but when they finally do they ride the team for not winning. No wonder we never have a rebuild here, everyone wants it both ways.
To fault Smith for any of our current problems means that no GM could have done a better job than Sather has since Smith was tossed, which I think everyone here would agree is untrue.

While I am all for acquiring youth and building from within (who isn't?) there is the consideration that just because a GM is doing so in no way guarantees success. At the end of the day the GM still has to acquire talent, not just youth.

In my opinion, at least so far, no one could have done a worse job than Sather has. The next few years may prove otherwise but based on his drafting here so far and his drafting in Edmonton I have no reason to believe this will all end well.

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02-07-2007, 05:08 PM
  #70
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Action speaks louder than words. Sather may have said one thing, but he has a deal up his sleave. It's the right nut, we need to be worried about.

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02-07-2007, 05:20 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by in the hall View Post
i am not talking about baranka, immonen, pock, dawes etc.. although i do wish the rangers would do a little more as far as seeing how they do in the nhl (don't mean immonen since i feel they gave him a chance and just didn't like what they saw)

i mean prucha, tyutin, even lundqvist early on

renney has been terrible as far as being patient with youngsters.. accountability.. giving them not only the opportunities but rewarding them if they do well

finally he is forced to play pock and girardi over a scrub like malik and what a surprise how this improves our defense
I dunno I guess I really don't have much to object to with Prucha, Tyutin and Lundqvist.

I think Lundqvist was given a chance to win the job and he did but Renney made sure Weekes was an option as well. This year he hasn't looked back.

Tyutin to me has been brought along exactly how I think he should've to be honest with you.

As for Prucha, there were certainly a few things I objected to but I tend to believe that at the end of the day that Prucha needed some of that tough love to kick him in the ass.

Would I have done things a little different? Probably but I don't know if those differences are enough for me to say I object to his handling of those players.

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02-07-2007, 06:31 PM
  #72
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I hate to say this, but as far as I'm concerned losing more games really doesn't bother me. I'm not comfortable going into the playoffs with this club.

Now, that really hurts me to say because I will be in France next year at playoff time, but as a Ranger fan for life it's a sacrifice I am prepared to make.

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02-07-2007, 06:35 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
I agree with chosen. After living through Sather, Smith doesn't seem so bad. His draft record here was spotty, which was odd because he was part of the Red Wing draft successes of long ago.

He brought in the right people in 94 (Larmer, Matteau, Anderson, Noonan), and I will be forever grateful. Can you imagine if we stunk like this now, and were going on 67 years without a cup? Everyone still chanting 1940? Ugh.

I think maybe he was forced to spend like a moron in the late 90s by the powers that be. I think in the current salary-cap NHL he can be a good GM again.
Jesus, I say that Smith traded vets for youth and this debate opens up?

You really think all of those trades in '94 were necessary? He really had to send out Gartner, Weight and Amonte?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
To fault Smith for any of our current problems means that no GM could have done a better job than Sather has since Smith was tossed, which I think everyone here would agree is untrue.

While I am all for acquiring youth and building from within (who isn't?) there is the consideration that just because a GM is doing so in no way guarantees success. At the end of the day the GM still has to acquire talent, not just youth.

In my opinion, at least so far, no one could have done a worse job than Sather has. The next few years may prove otherwise but based on his drafting here so far and his drafting in Edmonton I have no reason to believe this will all end well.
Look, all I said is that Smith did trade youth for vets and destroyed our prospect system. Sather hasn't done that in over 3 years and he gets bashed for trading youth for vets. Something doesn't add up. I still haven't said that one is better than the other, but if people want to bash Sather they could at least point out some of the things that he has actually done.

And please, there are plenty of guys that would have done worse. Let's keep this realistic.

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Old
02-07-2007, 06:37 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Slats told Larry Brooks



LA offered Sean Avery,Mattias Norstrom and Craig Conroy to the Rangers for Marc Staal

Sather's response



Sather did not rule out the Rangers becoming sellers and calling up six kids from HFD after the trading deadline.He added the Rangers are not giving out any NTC's

Love this quote



http://www.nypost.com/seven/02072007...rry_brooks.htm
I have been out of town on busness and have not had a chance to respond to the news & quotes.

I just want to throw at the disclaimer that I am not Sather, though Sather basically has said what I said last week. I say that because I have been accused of having to be Sather for defending him.

Just kidding, but it is good to hear that coming from Slats. Personally I think the situation is vastly different from what it was just 3 years ago and because of that yuou can not apply the circumstances and past track record to now.

In fact I really think we will be sellers and really get a boon from the house cleaning. I for one am tired of the Euro Cycling and really long for so good old western canadian style hockey. Strong forecheck, in your face physical hockey.

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02-07-2007, 06:44 PM
  #75
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I dunno I guess I really don't have much to object to with Prucha, Tyutin and Lundqvist.

I think Lundqvist was given a chance to win the job and he did but Renney made sure Weekes was an option as well. This year he hasn't looked back.

Tyutin to me has been brought along exactly how I think he should've to be honest with you.

As for Prucha, there were certainly a few things I objected to but I tend to believe that at the end of the day that Prucha needed some of that tough love to kick him in the ass.

Would I have done things a little different? Probably but I don't know if those differences are enough for me to say I object to his handling of those players.
People seem to forget that Prucha had issues early last year in his own end. He has exhibited those same issues again this year. Renney I think is tutoring with a risk/ punishment, reward/more playing time. Yes it is unfair because he has not applied the standard evenly. I think Renney, like a lot of coaches, has one set of rules for rookeis and young vets vs older vets. Personally I tend to disagree with that approach.

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