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Writing on the Wall for Hollweg??

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02-07-2007, 01:11 PM
  #1
Larry Melnyk
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Writing on the Wall for Hollweg??

More of a selfish topic becasue I really like the guy but I guess No big deal because he's only a fringe 4th liner with ZERO points......but this season, for whatever reason ( I think it's a combo of lack of productivity and confidence and ill defined role/linemates) has been a huge step down from last year.....Anyway, Got a good feeling his Ranger career will soon be over.....most probably included in some deal before the deadline...

With the acquistion of Avery (not too mention Callahan ready in hartford), we have two extra forwards in NY...Although I think Colton is the biggest waste of flesh on skates, Renney thinks otherwise..It's obviois from his statements and last night's lineup that, if it is a game where he sees physical danger, he will use Colton the Colostomy Bag to back up Avery.....Making Hollweg irrelevant....Krog is already a lineup fixture for wahtever reason and,.if he wants offense, he should be more more inclined to go with Hall...

IF, Hollweg gets another shot, he better do something to be noticed--not an easy feat with less then 5 minutes..

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02-07-2007, 01:13 PM
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With the acquisition of Avery...

who's a guy we'd hope Hollweg would be, I think it really means a less of a need for an enforcer, as there's another guy out there, this one who you'd trust with more than 5 minutes of ice time, to go out there and bang around. It almost makes Hollweg more useful as a fourth liner, and takes away the temptation for Renney to play him 10+ minutes on a third line. My thinking is his role is solidified (which means he's a goner, since me, Glen and Tom do not think alike).

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02-07-2007, 01:20 PM
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Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
who's a guy we'd hope Hollweg would be, I think it really means a less of a need for an enforcer, as there's another guy out there, this one who you'd trust with more than 5 minutes of ice time, to go out there and bang around. It almost makes Hollweg more useful as a fourth liner, and takes away the temptation for Renney to play him 10+ minutes on a third line. My thinking is his role is solidified (which means he's a goner, since me, Glen and Tom do not think alike).
That would be my thinking too, but I don't think it is Renney's as I noted above...Also think there is a disconnect this season betwen Hollweg and Renney, with both probably being at fault...We'll see..

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02-07-2007, 01:22 PM
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I think Hollweg is still going to be kept.

I personally like the idea of basically tripling the energy Hollweg gives you by having both him and Avery in the lineup at the same time.

Hollwegs 7 minutes arent as impactful as a combined ~22 minutes between the 2.

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02-07-2007, 01:26 PM
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I don't know.

I don't think Sean Avery replaces him.

I also think it depends on what the Rangers want out of their 4th line.

Callahan, ideally should be a third liner same with Avery.

Unless they're planning on using Hollweg on that line the only thing I can see knocking Hollweg out of his spot is the another 4th liner.

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02-07-2007, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
More of a selfish topic becasue I really like the guy but I guess No big deal because he's only a fringe 4th liner with ZERO points......but this season, for whatever reason ( I think it's a combo of lack of productivity and confidence and ill defined role/linemates) has been a huge step down from last year.....Anyway, Got a good feeling his Ranger career will soon be over.....most probably included in some deal before the deadline...

With the acquistion of Avery (not too mention Callahan ready in hartford), we have two extra forwards in NY...Although I think Colton is the biggest waste of flesh on skates, Renney thinks otherwise..It's obviois from his statements and last night's lineup that, if it is a game where he sees physical danger, he will use Colton the Colostomy Bag to back up Avery.....Making Hollweg irrelevant....Krog is already a lineup fixture for wahtever reason and,.if he wants offense, he should be more more inclined to go with Hall...

IF, Hollweg gets another shot, he better do something to be noticed--not an easy feat with less then 5 minutes..
Can you really tellus how yo feel about Orr? By the doesn't Orr have a point this season? Ryan is a valuable team guy and should be playing ahead of Hossa,Betts and Orr in my book.

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Old
02-07-2007, 01:29 PM
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Hollweg is going to sacrifice his body for the Rangers.

Sean Avery will not sacrafice his body for any team.

That's the difference.

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02-07-2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35 and 14 View Post
Hollweg is going to sacrifice his body for the Rangers.

Sean Avery will not sacrafice his body for any team.

That's the difference.
You know what just stop because now you're bordering on plain silly.

If you think Avery is a ***** than so be it, but the one thing you can't take away from the guy is that he busts his ass out there. He gives his shots and he takes them.

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02-07-2007, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
You know what just stop because now you're bordering on plain silly.

If you think Avery is a ***** than so be it, but the one thing you can't take away from the guy is that he busts his ass out there. He gives his shots and he takes them.
you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink...you can of course bash him over the skull, which is what i elect to do in this case.


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02-07-2007, 01:38 PM
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Larry Melnyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
.I don't think Sean Avery replaces him.

I also think it depends on what the Rangers want out of their 4th line.

Callahan, ideally should be a third liner same with Avery.

Unless they're planning on using Hollweg on that line the only thing I can see knocking Hollweg out of his spot is the another 4th liner.
Of course, Avery doesn't replace Hollweg, but it brings the hitting, phyiscality and antagonizing up to the 2nd and 3rd line....

As you mention, the key is what the rangers want out of a 4th line...

If it's an enforcer or backup to Avery, Renney will use Orr...

If it's offense, it's probably Krog and Hall..and maybe even Callahan (eventually)..And if Callahan is a 3rd liner, either Prucha or Hossa is a definite 4th liner...

If it's energy and hitting, it should be Hollweg..But, I think, that may be less of a concern to Renney now....

Just a feeling...

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02-07-2007, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 35 and 14 View Post
Hollweg is going to sacrifice his body for the Rangers.

Sean Avery will not sacrafice his body for any team.

That's the difference.
What? And you would base this on??? Avery goes after bigger guys all the time... I would say that proves he is willing to sacrifice the body...

Avery >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hollweg.

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02-07-2007, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Of course, Avery doesn't replace Hollweg, but it brings the hitting, phyiscality and antagonizing up to the 2nd and 3rd line....

As you mention, the key is what the rangers want out of a 4th line...

If it's an enforcer or backup to Avery, Renney will use Orr...

If it's offense, it's probably Krog and Hall..and maybe even Callahan (eventually)..And if Callahan is a 3rd liner, either Prucha or Hossa is a definite 4th liner...

If it's energy and hitting, it should be Hollweg..But, I think, that may be less of a concern to Renney now....

Just a feeling...
My call would probably be hitting. I think Avery really improves those areas but I don't think he can a lone gunman so to speak.

The problem with the "offensive" guys is that their contributions are pretty minimal for what you'd lose.

Personally I think the Rangers still need Hollweg's hitting. Obviously they finally have some on the higher lines, which they needed, but I view Avery as a player who makes things better not necessarily replaces them.

Certainly the Rangers can get wear team's down outside of their 4th line now, but I think you still need the 4th line to do that as well. Take Hollweg out of the equation and you're still down to one guy again. He might be better at it than the one guy scenario before, but it still wouldn't quite be enough.

Now where Hollweg will have a problem is if someone comes through the system who can hit and combine that with some offense. But until then I don't think he's in danger.

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02-07-2007, 01:59 PM
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Larry...

unfortunately I'm biased and tend to blame Renney for everything, and in this case I'm thinking Renney's responsible for the disconnect, until I get more information that I'm sure I'll never get. Hollweg has decent hands and skill, and he seemed more active with the puck last season. Seems as though he just goes out there to hit now and doesn't think enough about doing things with the puck. I almost think that's his role, to be a physical presence, and offense is a bonus, which is somewhat true, but I'd take a slight less physical play if he could show a bit more offense (of which I'm thinking he's capable).

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02-07-2007, 02:01 PM
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I tend to think that maybe Hollweg is just not going to be the player we had hoped.

His struggles go beyond just the NHL.

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02-07-2007, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I tend to think that maybe Hollweg is just not going to be the player we had hoped.

His struggles go beyond just the NHL.
Yep. Like I said before. Hollweg blows. See what a difference a guy makes when he actually has OFFENSIVE ability along with being able to provide a certain role. For 2 years now, all Renney has done is put crap out on the 3rd and 4th lines that can't produce offensively. We aren't a team with 2 huge scoring lines. We need our 3rd line to score and 4th line to chip in. That is how we drafted. To build a team with a ton of depth. Betts stinks as well. Spare me that faceoff garbage. He's lousy. Hossa is terrible. Hollweg, Hossa and Betts all need to go. Now....

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02-07-2007, 02:23 PM
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I don't disagree, Edge...

and have gone back and forth on Hollweg, but I did see more offense last season, and more hitting this season. If he can put some of the offensive potential from last season with the hitting from this season, he wouldn't be half bad. He's still pretty young, so I'm not giving up hope, but like I've said throughout the season, I'm not sure I want to see him out there more than 5-7 minutes per game at this point.

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02-07-2007, 02:25 PM
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donut...

I think if Betts was getting 5-7 ES minutes and PK time while taking an odd key faceoff here and there that you'd think a bit different. I think his offensive production wouldn't materially slip with a few less ES minutes and think he'd be a damn fine fourth line centerman.

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02-07-2007, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I tend to think that maybe Hollweg is just not going to be the player we had hoped.

His struggles go beyond just the NHL.
Aint Hollweg still young enough to go to the Wolfpack without going thru waivers???? If so, the Rangers should send him down, maybe it will help his offensive game.

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02-07-2007, 02:52 PM
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I think if Betts was getting 5-7 ES minutes and PK time while taking an odd key faceoff here and there that you'd think a bit different. I think his offensive production wouldn't materially slip with a few less ES minutes and think he'd be a damn fine fourth line centerman.
Here is the problem with that. Would you rather have Helminen or Betts as your 4th line center man? I'd rather have Helminen. He flies and has the ability to be a premier PK guy with more offensive skill.

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02-07-2007, 02:56 PM
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Here is the problem with that. Would you rather have Helminen or Betts as your 4th line center man? I'd rather have Helminen. He flies and has the ability to be a premier PK guy with more offensive skill.
agreed, at least Betts stayed healthy this year. Id like Helminen alot more, he has more speed and quicker and can draw penalties with his speed. Maybe he can turn into a Todd Marchant/Wes Walz type.

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02-07-2007, 03:05 PM
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Why Helminen?

because he put up good numbers last season while playing with offensive minded players and getting a lot of ice time, only to almost completely fall off the face of the earth this season? He's a smallish forward with OK skills and doesn't seem to have the playmaking skills and scoring ability of an NHL forward. With 8 minutes of ES ice time per night, I'd put Betts up against him every day of the week, and I'd put Betts up against NHLers every day of the week too.

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02-07-2007, 03:15 PM
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Here is the problem with that. Would you rather have Helminen or Betts as your 4th line center man? I'd rather have Helminen. He flies and has the ability to be a premier PK guy with more offensive skill.
I have to disagree with you here, there is no way I take Helminen over Betts. Is Blair Betts really a problem for this team? I think if we play him where he belongs which is 4th line center and PK'er he is a valuable asset to this team.

As for Hollweg, I am a big fan of his, I really don't care if he scores a point or not all year. I think he is everything you can ask ffor ina 4th line winger. Should he be playing on the 3rd line, no, but as a 4th liner he adds alot of sandpaper to our team. Plus he does show signs of having decent hands, i just think he is tryign to hard. he needs to go back to the basics of running around and hitting everything that moves. I think him and Avery in the lineup together give us two very annoying players to play against.

As for Orr, i gotta admit I am a bit dissapointed in him. The reason ebing that I heard alot about him losing all that weight so I expected his mobility to improve but to be honest he still looks just as rigid and uncomfortable on skates as he did last year. is there really that much of a difference to how he played last year? The only difference was that he had more weight which helped in his fights against the elite heavyweights in the league. I say sit Orr down and feed him pasta and protein shakes and let him get back to his old weight and play him 1 out of every 10 games if the other team has a real heavyweight that Avery and Hollweg can't handle.

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02-07-2007, 03:55 PM
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prucha straka jagr
shanny nylader dawes
avery cullen callahan
hollweg betts orts


fourth line should now be what id shouldve been all year

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02-07-2007, 03:59 PM
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I have to disagree with you here, there is no way I take Helminen over Betts. Is Blair Betts really a problem for this team? I think if we play him where he belongs which is 4th line center and PK'er he is a valuable asset to this team.
not to mention he is a very good penalty killer. looked at his stats today and was just blown away by the fact he has only like 7 points this year, even though he has played so many games on the second line, its just further evidence how hes being misused. if you play him in his role, which is not 2nd or 3rd line center, but fourth line center, then he is very valuable with his excellent faceoff ability. dwight had a nice season last year stat wise, but he has been much less then good since the end of last season, and it all seemed to start in the playoffs when his minus was right near double digits. he is an ahl player, maybe he makes it as a fourth liner in a couple years but right now leave him alone

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02-07-2007, 04:32 PM
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Hollweg can at least skate and hit which is a lot more than Orr can do.

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