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Players holding the stick to their bodies when slightly hooked

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02-08-2014, 07:36 AM
  #1
SnowblindNYR
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Players holding the stick to their bodies when slightly hooked

A lot of players, when they feel a stick around their bodies will squeeze the stick so that the guy on the other team can't let it go and the ref sees it and calls it. Not singling anyone out, the Rangers do it too. Why is it that diving gets the indignation of fans as a disgrace, but this form of cheating is not considered taboo, or at least not on the same level as diving? Seems like both are forms of cheating. Is it because of soccer diving, which gives people the opportunity to say "I don't want to watch a soccer match on ice"? I honestly can't think of a real reason.

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02-08-2014, 07:44 AM
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Quarter
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It's all embellishment.

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02-08-2014, 07:48 AM
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Hambone15
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I remember seeing it happen vs the leafs a couple weeks ago and leafs wound up in the box. That **** drives me insane. I can't remember who or what team it was

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02-08-2014, 07:55 AM
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Aleks
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Anyone who's played hockey knows it's the oldest trick in the book to draw a penalty. It happens at pretty much any level where there's a referee.

If you get caught, the ref will ALWAYS tell you your stick shouldn't have been there in the first place! No big deal really.

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02-08-2014, 07:57 AM
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Mike Farkas
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I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this point, but I'll put it out there as it's the most obvious answer: There's no stick to hold under your arm, if a stick isn't there in the first place...

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02-08-2014, 07:58 AM
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TheGoalJudge
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Don't put your damn stick there then.

Die Dead Puck Era. Die.

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02-08-2014, 08:00 AM
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SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this point, but I'll put it out there as it's the most obvious answer: There's no stick to hold under your arm, if a stick isn't there in the first place...
But dives often come on legit hooks too, yet you get irate hockey fans over that but this for some reason is not taboo. And the post above yours just confirmed that. This is a "trick", diving is a disgrace to all of humanity. Why?

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02-08-2014, 08:01 AM
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SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
Don't put your damn stick there then.

Die Dead Puck Era. Die.
But that somehow doesn't work when a guy is hooked and dives. Then it's a federal case.

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02-08-2014, 08:06 AM
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Mike Farkas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
But dives often come on legit hooks too, yet you get irate hockey fans over that but this for some reason is not taboo. And the post above yours just confirmed that. This is a "trick", diving is a disgrace to all of humanity. Why?
As often as dives come on legit hooks, even more of these "stick hugs" occur on legit hooks, then right? I'm not saying it's glamorous, but taking a dive is taking a dive...it's not the power play that you gain from it, it's the action itself...taking a dive has, deservedly so I think, a much more negative connotation...but it's not about the result, it's about the action...one action is "worse" than the other, that's the crux of it...

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02-08-2014, 08:07 AM
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SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
As often as dives come on legit hooks, even more of these "stick hugs" occur on legit hooks, then right? I'm not saying it's glamorous, but taking a dive is taking a dive...it's not the power play that you gain from it, it's the action itself...taking a dive has, deservedly so I think, a much more negative connotation...but it's not about the result, it's about the action...one action is "worse" than the other, that's the crux of it...
I'm not sure I follow you. Why is the action of taking a dive worse than the action of hugging the stick? Is it because one is more flamboyant than the other?

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02-08-2014, 08:07 AM
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Hambone15
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Oh nevermind I was thinking of players literally gripping a guys stick and holding it up to their bodies to get try and get a penalty.

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02-08-2014, 08:16 AM
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Buck Aki Berg
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When a player dives, he's essentially given up on the play - he's more concerned with drawing a not-necessarily-deserved penalty than anything else. With a stick hug (I'm totally stealing that term, by the way), it's possible to attempt to draw the penalty while maintaining the progression of the offensive rush. To me, that's why sick-hugging isn't as bad as diving.

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02-08-2014, 08:18 AM
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HockeyMomx2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
A lot of players, when they feel a stick around their bodies will squeeze the stick so that the guy on the other team can't let it go and the ref sees it and calls it. Not singling anyone out, the Rangers do it too. Why is it that diving gets the indignation of fans as a disgrace, but this form of cheating is not considered taboo, or at least not on the same level as diving? Seems like both are forms of cheating. Is it because of soccer diving, which gives people the opportunity to say "I don't want to watch a soccer match on ice"? I honestly can't think of a real reason.
Like how Sedin did the other night with Bergys stick? Was hilarious watching him skate with Bergys stick under his arm, looking at the ref for the call and 5 feet away bergy is seen in background of camera shot skating away.

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02-08-2014, 08:18 AM
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Mike Farkas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I'm not sure I follow you. Why is the action of taking a dive worse than the action of hugging the stick? Is it because one is more flamboyant than the other?
I mean, if you don't feel that way right off the hop then you don't feel that way...which I guess is what prompted this exploratory thread...but I can't imagine many people think a dive and the stick hug are on the same level...it's one of those "just because" things...it's in the "severity" of the action...

Why is it 2 minutes for boarding and sometimes 5 minutes for boarding? Because one is worse than the other...that's all I can really say about it, perhaps someone more eloquent than I could do it more justice...but you're dealing in the abstract here, I just don't think you're going to find a ton of traction...

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02-08-2014, 08:37 AM
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SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I mean, if you don't feel that way right off the hop then you don't feel that way...which I guess is what prompted this exploratory thread...but I can't imagine many people think a dive and the stick hug are on the same level...it's one of those "just because" things...it's in the "severity" of the action...

Why is it 2 minutes for boarding and sometimes 5 minutes for boarding? Because one is worse than the other...that's all I can really say about it, perhaps someone more eloquent than I could do it more justice...but you're dealing in the abstract here, I just don't think you're going to find a ton of traction...
Well boardings differ based on the danger of the hit. Neither a dive nor a stick hug is dangerous. One is just more flamboyant and just accepted as worse than the other. If you eliminate any preconceived notions then a dive where a guy got lightly hooked and a stick hug where a guy got lightly hooked are the same thing. I guess one is more subtle and thus doesn't "look" as bad, but they're both a way of cheating. A dive where a guy wasn't touched, or was touched but not enough to elicit a penalty on its own, is of course worse.

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02-08-2014, 08:50 AM
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skillhockey
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It's just players trying to adjust to bad reffing, they should call every hook not by rolling a dice if they wanna call it or not.

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02-08-2014, 09:39 AM
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SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skillhockey View Post
It's just players trying to adjust to bad reffing, they should call every hook not by rolling a dice if they wanna call it or not.
Why doesn't that hold for diving though? Players just trying to adjust to bad reffing.

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02-08-2014, 09:43 AM
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Neal got called for this yesterday and was given 2 for embellishment. It was correct to penalise him but he should've been penalised for holding the stick, not embellishment.

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02-08-2014, 09:47 AM
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SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
Neal got called for this yesterday and was given 2 for embellishment. It was correct to penalise him but he should've been penalised for holding the stick, not embellishment.
I think it was Jokinen who did it and didn't get called. I think Brassard got away with it too. If anything it's worse as it's a lot harder to see than some of these flamboyant dives.

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02-08-2014, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I think it was Jokinen who did it and didn't get called. I think Brassard got away with it too. If anything it's worse as it's a lot harder to see than some of these flamboyant dives.
It annoyed me as well because he got called for that and it was labelled as "embellishment" yet Carcillo had a hit later (Might've been earlier) where he snapped his head back and didn't have any contact there yet wasn't called.

The refereeing last night was baffling. So many things were missed.

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02-08-2014, 09:56 AM
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SnowblindNYR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
It annoyed me as well because he got called for that and it was labelled as "embellishment" yet Carcillo had a hit later (Might've been earlier) where he snapped his head back and didn't have any contact there yet wasn't called.

The refereeing last night was baffling. So many things were missed.
Was the hit on Carcillo worthy of a penalty? If not, that's probably it. The refs really don't seem to call diving alone. I almost feel like they don't want that type of call deciding games. So they probably let it go because of that. 99% of the time if it's a dive there's another penalty to offset it.

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02-08-2014, 10:00 AM
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HockeyMomx2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skillhockey View Post
It's just players trying to adjust to bad reffing, they should call every hook not by rolling a dice if they wanna call it or not.
I disagree. If something is done that does not affect the receiving player from completing the attempted play there is no reason a penalty to be called.

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02-08-2014, 10:01 AM
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I believe the appropriate term for this is "chicken winging"

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02-08-2014, 10:19 AM
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tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Well boardings differ based on the danger of the hit. Neither a dive nor a stick hug is dangerous. One is just more flamboyant and just accepted as worse than the other. If you eliminate any preconceived notions then a dive where a guy got lightly hooked and a stick hug where a guy got lightly hooked are the same thing. I guess one is more subtle and thus doesn't "look" as bad, but they're both a way of cheating. A dive where a guy wasn't touched, or was touched but not enough to elicit a penalty on its own, is of course worse.
Fans' anger about diving isn't because it's cheating, but because there's a perceived lack of toughness associated with it. You have guys out there playing with stitches in their faces, taking hits to make a play, getting slashed across the wrists and not flinching. Then some Ribeiro or Kovalev is out there rolling around clutching his heart after a tiny nudge... it's just embarrassing. Implies that they can't be touched without turning the game into an operatic death scene. Goes against a fundamental ethic in the sport.

Guys hugging a stick or stopping their feet, that's just a matter of trying to win the game. There was a thread not too long ago where even a majority of HF'ers agreed that "going down easy" isn't the same thing as diving, the former just being a tactic that one expects to see in any physical competition.

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02-08-2014, 10:26 AM
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Ragamuffin Gunner
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Because if they don't do that the refs won't call hooking.

It's awful the amount of hooking/holding/interference that is being allowed in the game today.

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