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Old
02-07-2007, 12:33 PM
  #1
Chill Town
 
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Trade Proposal Edmonton (Sort Of)

This obviously has to do with Anton Babchuk, realistically, what would it take from the Oilers perspective to grab a guy like this? Again realistically.....

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02-07-2007, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Roshan View Post
This obviously has to do with Anton Babchuk, realistically, what would it take from the Oilers perspective to grab a guy like this? Again realistically.....
If Edmonton's managment would be willing to discuss Ladislav Smid I'd be all over that, even if it meant the Canes adding some more to the deal.

Other then him, Lupul interests me a bit and possibly Thoresen to an extent.

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02-07-2007, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
If Edmonton's managment would be willing to discuss Ladislav Smid I'd be all over that, even if it meant the Canes adding some more to the deal.

Other then him, Lupul interests me a bit and possibly Thoresen to an extent.
You'll probably get flamed for that. You're supposed to understand that Babchuk failing to report makes him worth nothing.

What people are failing to realize in this situation is that by accounts from his agent, he's not a flight risk. He wants to play for another NHL team, there are no doubts. He simply wants to avoid playing in the AHL if it comes to that. In other words, he's not going to get traded to a team and be on a plane to Russia at the same time. That makes his value much the same as if he weren't failing to report at all.

Still though, I don't think we're going to make it out of this situation with Babchuk intact. Because from here on out the coaches are going to wonder when they're forced to scratch him if he's going to throw a tantrum and leave the team.

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02-07-2007, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
You'll probably get flamed for that. You're supposed to understand that Babchuk failing to report makes him worth nothing.

What people are failing to realize in this situation is that by accounts from his agent, he's not a flight risk. He wants to play for another NHL team, there are no doubts. He simply wants to avoid playing in the AHL if it comes to that. In other words, he's not going to get traded to a team and be on a plane to Russia at the same time. That makes his value much the same as if he weren't failing to report at all.

Still though, I don't think we're going to make it out of this situation with Babchuk intact. Because from here on out the coaches are going to wonder when they're forced to scratch him if he's going to throw a tantrum and leave the team.
well, hence why I brought up Thoresen (who's in the AHL but has good upside) and Lupul (who is suposedly is on the outs in Edmonton). They would give us something we need in our organization while filling Edmonton's needs on defense. Would suck to give up Babchuk at the ripe old age of 22 over him doing the Russian thing and listening to his agent over his GM, but that's what happens sometimes. As is, Babchuk would likely be a top 4 for Edmonton so they get what they need while we would get a young scoring winger with solid upside and a 3rd line center that can play in the AHL if needed and hasn't failed to report. I would definitely be willing to throw a little more in (IE: Belanger, Korhonen type prospect, mid-round pick next year), but it's a trade that could actually be win-win for both organizations.

Smid is a pipedream, but I've been high on the kid since before the 04 draft and really wanted us to take him before we traded up to snag Ladd. If Edmonton would be willing to work on that we could end up with him anyway.

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02-07-2007, 01:15 PM
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Thoresen? What would we have to add? I like him, but I don't know how well he's going to fit into the Oilers long term plans.

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02-07-2007, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckNut View Post
Thoresen? What would we have to add? I like him, but I don't know how well he's going to fit into the Oilers long term plans.
I was thinking along the lines of:

TO CRL: Thoresen + Lupul

TO EDM: Babchuk + ?

if the question mark were either Tanabe or Hutchinson that would be underpayment on the part of the Canes IMO. Seidenberg would be overpayment and I doubt you guys would want Belanger seing as you have Thoresen in the minors already.

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02-07-2007, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
I was thinking along the lines of:

TO CRL: Thoresen + Lupul

TO EDM: Babchuk + ?

if the question mark were either Tanabe or Hutchinson that would be underpayment on the part of the Canes IMO. Seidenberg would be overpayment and I doubt you guys would want Belanger seing as you have Thoresen in the minors already.
I think you might be overvaluing Babchuk a bit. Because technically speaking, he likely has played one of his last games as a Cane, unless, you risk him thinking he is bigger than the tight squad you already have. What about:

TO CRL: Brad Winchester

TO EDM: Anton Babchuk?

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02-07-2007, 01:36 PM
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I think Carolina should go after Matt Greene if they go the Edmonton route.

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02-07-2007, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
I think Carolina should go after Matt Greene if they go the Edmonton route.
But how does that figure with your abundance of NHL ready D-men?

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02-07-2007, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Roshan View Post
But how does that figure with your abundance of NHL ready D-men?
This way!

Bret Hedican and Glen Wesley - Next year we lose one if not both.
David Tanabe and Andrew Hutchinson - We want to move one for a rental this year. The other will likely walk via free agency at the end of the year due to lack of a good opportunity.

That is how 10 NHL ready defensemen becomes 6 NHL ready defensemen. Not to mention the wildcard of Dennis Seidenberg. Who knows what the organization is going to do with him. A young player like Matt Greene would be great for this team if Babchuk departs.

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02-07-2007, 01:44 PM
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I'm not sure, but would Greene have to clear waivers? I'm not sure he would so that would fit easily.

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02-07-2007, 02:43 PM
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As an Oilers fans who lives in NC (attended the game against Boston at the RBC Sat. night), I think someone like Jason Smith might be available/expendable.

The Oilers signed Steve Staios to a big contract already this year which is why Smith might be expendable (he will want a raise and the Oilers are currently working on a contract for Ryan Smyth, so there may not be any money left for Jason Smith in the off-season)

Perhaps Babchuk + for Smith.

Smid and Greene are a big part of the Oilers future, so I don't think either of them are availabe unless the other team is willing to overpay.

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02-07-2007, 02:45 PM
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Why does everyone think Babchuk is going to get traded? Maybe they don't understand the situation but when canes fans explain it at least listen. The thread on this in the trades section is ridiculous.

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02-07-2007, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
This way!

Bret Hedican and Glen Wesley - Next year we lose one if not both.
David Tanabe and Andrew Hutchinson - We want to move one for a rental this year. The other will likely walk via free agency at the end of the year due to lack of a good opportunity.

That is how 10 NHL ready defensemen becomes 6 NHL ready defensemen. Not to mention the wildcard of Dennis Seidenberg. Who knows what the organization is going to do with him. A young player like Matt Greene would be great for this team if Babchuk departs.
your explanation is exactly the reason why babs shouldnt be going anywhere.

i want torres from the oilers. thats about it. matt greene would be nice, but he doesnt have any upside past what he is now, imo. if we had to lose babs, i guess it wouldnt hurt - but babs has top 2 potential, easy top 4....does greene really have that?

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02-07-2007, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedgreen View Post
your explanation is exactly the reason why babs shouldnt be going anywhere.

i want torres from the oilers. thats about it. matt greene would be nice, but he doesnt have any upside past what he is now, imo. if we had to lose babs, i guess it wouldnt hurt - but babs has top 2 potential, easy top 4....does greene really have that?
Depends on what you want in your Top 4. If you're looking for 40 points per year and pretty decent defensive play, you're more than likely going to stick with Babchuk. If you're looking for a shutdown defenseman then Matt Greene is probably your better option. He's a meaner version of Niclas Wallin with potential to be better in his own end than Wallin. I would think that's Top 4 for just about every squad in the league. Not to mention JR's immense love for big american defensemen.

Value is hard to judge when you're talking about offensive oriented defensemen against defensive oriented defensemen. I'd say that a swap of Babchuk for Greene would be fair given the circumstances.

Let the record state that I would rather keep Babchuk over entertaining any of these trade talks, but a little speculation never hurt anybody.

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02-07-2007, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
Depends on what you want in your Top 4. If you're looking for 40 points per year and pretty decent defensive play, you're more than likely going to stick with Babchuk. If you're looking for a shutdown defenseman then Matt Greene is probably your better option. He's a meaner version of Niclas Wallin with potential to be better in his own end than Wallin. I would think that's Top 4 for just about every squad in the league. Not to mention JR's immense love for big american defensemen.

Value is hard to judge when you're talking about offensive oriented defensemen against defensive oriented defensemen. I'd say that a swap of Babchuk for Greene would be fair given the circumstances.

Let the record state that I would rather keep Babchuk over entertaining any of these trade talks, but a little speculation never hurt anybody.
fair enough. i agree that if we had to move babs we could do a lot worse than greene. at least you know he'll reach his potential as a bad mf.

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02-07-2007, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
This way!

Bret Hedican and Glen Wesley - Next year we lose one if not both.
David Tanabe and Andrew Hutchinson - We want to move one for a rental this year. The other will likely walk via free agency at the end of the year due to lack of a good opportunity.

That is how 10 NHL ready defensemen becomes 6 NHL ready defensemen. Not to mention the wildcard of Dennis Seidenberg. Who knows what the organization is going to do with him. A young player like Matt Greene would be great for this team if Babchuk departs.
wait.... is Hedican a UFA after this year? I thought he had one more left on his deal here. If he is a UFA this makes what has been going on with Babchuk even more rediculous. The amount of turnover on the roster would be insane with Wesley likely retiring and Hedican possibly doing the same or heading elsewhere. I meen who would our #6 defenseman after Commodore, Kaberle, Wallin, Gleason and Seidenberg? Casey Borer? As much as I think Borer is going to be an excelent shut-down guy, I'm not exactly looking forward to that for next year.

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02-07-2007, 03:31 PM
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Hedican is contracted through next season, but he's certainly not getting any younger. Heh.

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02-07-2007, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardiac_Canes View Post
Why does everyone think Babchuk is going to get traded? Maybe they don't understand the situation but when canes fans explain it at least listen. The thread on this in the trades section is ridiculous.
I agree. Babchuk screwed up, but he's a kid. He's not necessarily gone if he makes amends - especially since the whole plan was to keep from trading him. They just a need a little face to face time. We're not that used to dealing with sensitive players here - other places are.

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02-07-2007, 06:12 PM
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You guys cant be serious can you? Ladislav Smid, Lupul, Jason Smith, Matt Geene?? Yikes. Its not like Babchuk is a top notch prospect or anything. He couldnt make your team and is not reporting the minors i dont know how that equals some of the guys you mentioning. Realisticly try thoresen for Babchuk and a 5th.

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02-07-2007, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27theROCK View Post
You guys cant be serious can you? Ladislav Smid, Lupul, Jason Smith, Matt Geene?? Yikes. Its not like Babchuk is a top notch prospect or anything. He couldnt make your team and is not reporting the minors i dont know how that equals some of the guys you mentioning. Realisticly try thoresen for Babchuk and a 5th.

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02-07-2007, 06:22 PM
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Oh yeah im way off base to not think trading Lupul a young guy coming of of a 28 goal performance and while he has struggled this year still has 14 goals for a Dman Chicago pretty much gave up on you guys deemed as expendable who wont report to the minors. Yeah i am the one that is off base with the trade value.

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02-07-2007, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27theROCK View Post
Oh yeah im way off base to not think trading Lupul a young guy coming of of a 28 goal performance and while he has struggled this year still has 14 goals for a Dman Chicago pretty much gave up on you guys deemed as expendable who wont report to the minors. Yeah i am the one that is off base with the trade value.
I didn't talk Lupul. I was talking about Matt Greene. I think Lupul would command a bit more than Babchuk in return. I think Dave would agree.

First of all, Chicago didn't give up on Babchuk. They have and still do have an absolute glut of young defensemen.

Cam Barker
Brent Seabrook
Duncan Keith
Lasse Kukkonen
James Wisniewski
Jim Vandermeer

Right there is a decent Top 6 and they're all pretty young players. Chicago needed scoring and needed a straight up offensive minded defenseman. Enter Carolina with Radim Vrbata and Danny Richmond and the trigger was pulled.

As for Babchuk not being good enough to make this team, that's obviously false. He's played in almost every game of the season so far and has been one of our more consistant defensemen already at just 22 years old. The reason he was sent down is because we have 10 defensemen on our roster and only one was able to go down without having to clear waivers. Carolina wanted to showcase David Tanabe and Andrew Hutchinson for possible deals and I can assure you that Babchuk would have been down a week at most until he was called back up. He's a key piece to what Carolina is trying to do.

Just because a player fails to report doesn't make his trade value non-existent. I still feel he's a better player and prospect than Matt Greene, but wouldn't be heartbroken if the deal had to go down that way.

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02-07-2007, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniacforever View Post
I didn't talk Lupul. I was talking about Matt Greene. I think Lupul would command a bit more than Babchuk in return. I think Dave would agree.

First of all, Chicago didn't give up on Babchuk. They have and still do have an absolute glut of young defensemen.

Cam Barker
Brent Seabrook
Duncan Keith
Lasse Kukkonen
James Wisniewski
Jim Vandermeer

Right there is a decent Top 6 and they're all pretty young players. Chicago needed scoring and needed a straight up offensive minded defenseman. Enter Carolina with Radim Vrbata and Danny Richmond and the trigger was pulled.

As for Babchuk not being good enough to make this team, that's obviously false. He's played in almost every game of the season so far and has been one of our more consistant defensemen already at just 22 years old. The reason he was sent down is because we have 10 defensemen on our roster and only one was able to go down without having to clear waivers. Carolina wanted to showcase David Tanabe and Andrew Hutchinson for possible deals and I can assure you that Babchuk would have been down a week at most until he was called back up. He's a key piece to what Carolina is trying to do.

Just because a player fails to report doesn't make his trade value non-existent. I still feel he's a better player and prospect than Matt Greene, but wouldn't be heartbroken if the deal had to go down that way.
Oh I disagree with that--I think Greene is a better all around d-man then Babchuck and like I said--I think the Canes are getting ready to a deal and needed to by sometime--and Babchuck was told "Go away for a few dayas and think about it and when you get back--we will have a spot for ya"--Creative way around 23 player limit

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02-07-2007, 10:14 PM
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Did you hear that anywhere or is that just what you think is going down?

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