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Sather Vows To Keep Kids

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Old
02-07-2007, 08:10 PM
  #76
dedalus
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Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER View Post
In fact I really think we will be sellers and really get a boon from the house cleaning. I for one am tired of the Euro Cycling and really long for so good old western canadian style hockey. Strong forecheck, in your face physical hockey.
I'm all for the latter.

The problem I see with the former is that no "boon" is coming unless the team trades one of the Big 4 because those are the only players who can return something significant enough to be called a "boon." I just don't see any of those guys being shipped out at the trade deadline. I'd like it but I don't see it happening. Rather I see more deals like the Avery and some of the older defensemen shipped out for picks. Now that's far superior to trading away youth, but I don't se it as a genuine commitment to youth either.

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02-07-2007, 08:16 PM
  #77
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I really think now the only reason ranger fans can panic is regarding this seasons playoffs. I am pretty sure our future looks nice. Like most of you agree Avery has brought a good style of hockey (so far) that we have been longing for. This could at least be a hint of the type of players we wish to keep on acquiring?

Screw the Czech-mate crap haha

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02-07-2007, 08:32 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
I'm all for the latter.

The problem I see with the former is that no "boon" is coming unless the team trades one of the Big 4 because those are the only players who can return something significant enough to be called a "boon." I just don't see any of those guys being shipped out at the trade deadline. I'd like it but I don't see it happening. Rather I see more deals like the Avery and some of the older defensemen shipped out for picks. Now that's far superior to trading away youth, but I don't se it as a genuine commitment to youth either.
I think Nylander goes and he certainly would warrant at least a 1st round pick. Hall, Rachunek, Malik and Weekes could bring somethings of value in return. Defensemen always carry a premium come trade deadline. Shannahan I would talk to and find out if he wants to go to a cup contender. He certainly would fetch another 1st rounder. Being he's on a 1 year deal I would tell him straight up that if he becomes a UFA we would be very interested in resigning him. I would even do a 2 year deal then as a show gratitude for agreeing to go in a trade.

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02-07-2007, 08:48 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER View Post
I think Nylander goes and he certainly would warrant at least a 1st round pick ... Shannahan I would talk to and find out if he wants to go to a cup contender. He certainly would fetch another 1st rounder.
I like both moves but I don't see Sather and Co. making them. I think they're too concerned with Jagr's feelings to do the first and too concerned with their image and Shanahan's feelings to do the second.

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02-07-2007, 09:48 PM
  #80
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I like both moves but I don't see Sather and Co. making them. I think they're too concerned with Jagr's feelings to do the first
I'd consider dealing him, too.

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02-07-2007, 09:50 PM
  #81
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jagr for gretzalf!!!

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02-07-2007, 09:53 PM
  #82
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I'd consider dealing him, too.
He's the first to go IMO. This team will not be a team until he is gone. But that's if this team takes a tremendous nose dive.

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02-07-2007, 09:58 PM
  #83
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I think Nylander goes and he certainly would warrant at least a 1st round pick. Hall, Rachunek, Malik and Weekes could bring somethings of value in return.
.
Rachunek and Weekes do have some value and I could see either or both of them shipped out for either prospects or draft picks (my guess is that the brass would be more interested in the former, and the more mature the better) but Malik and Hall are pretty worthless. Hall might return you a low pick, but I can't see anyone taking on Malik's contract. The guy is waiver material as it is, why would someone give up an asset for him and then commit to pay him 2.5 mil bext year? No one who has watched him this year would.

The Rangers may ultimately decide to become sellers, but I doubt that they will look to move any pieces whose loss would be felt next year. They might be willing to cash in this season (though I have my doubts that that sather and co will ever completely throw in the towel) but they will look to contend next year. For this reason I don't think we'll see any of the big 4 moved. Shannahan might be, but only if he was ok with it and agreed to come back next year, because I think the brass sees him as both a big part of next year's team and a mentor (and I think they would be right on both accounts.)

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02-07-2007, 09:58 PM
  #84
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I really question the package that you'd receive back for a Jagr, but I'd be listening if I were Sather.

+ reasonable salary
+ contract options
+ top 3 talent in the league

- only wants to play in NYC
- questionable heart
- questionable health

Who knows, really, but somehow it might not be as big of a package as some might think. Thankfully with his salary being what it is, we shouldn't be victim of any JT trades.

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02-07-2007, 10:20 PM
  #85
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conroy got a 2nd and 4rd round pick plus lundmark...i can;t see jagr not returning a 1st and a top prospect

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Old
02-07-2007, 10:31 PM
  #86
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Now the interesting thing that people ignore about the kids here is that many of them aren't even old enough to drink yet, the ones that were drafted in the 00, 01, and 02 that are NHLers, who are developed, are on the team or in the NHL. The kids from the 03, 04, 05, aren't not just necessarily ready yet, but haven't played in the NYR system of play, or learned it, since before last year, there wasn't any. The Henke's, Moore's (traded I know, backfired), Tyutin's, Hollweg's, and Prucha's are on the team, and contributing or being served as assets.

Its easy to see the lack of cohesiveness and chemistry in the big team, but its different in Hartford. They drafted in a certain direction, two-way, speedy, moderately skilled, second and third effort guys, and are hopefully playing them within a system of play that they can thrive in.

Look across the river at Jersey, NJ has a habit of taking collegiate players, especially those from teams that employee a system similar to that of Jersey's (UND looking at you here). So those kids when they come up to the pro game, fit in much more easily. In other words they don't have to be coached as much. The seven years before last however, the Rangers had no system to speak of, let the kids in Hartford grow together and come up here, and show their instant chemistry. Some of the younger guys here you notice aren't positionally sound, Prucha, Pock, especially. You notice them being not where they are supposed to be, but look at Girardi, or even Callahan when they came up here, you don't notice them, which is a good thing.

For example when the defensemen regroup, the puck is banked off of the back end boards behind your net, and the other guy is ready to receive it and send it up the boards up ice, many times you won't see the defenseman in position to receive that dump, instead it either goes up the middle for a turnover, skated out or turned over, or dumped down the ice and turned over, last year this was something that was consistent, especially when the third and fourth lines were on the ice, and resulted in more puck possession time with the bottom lines, something that is near non existent this season. If they bring up six or so kids at once, I think you'll see things like this change. More cross corner dump ins, a cleaner forecheck, with the left wing lock being employed. Something that isn't there now. So even if those kids come up here, and play on the bottom lines, they'll still be better than what you see now. I don't think the rangers have a single top six talented forward in their system, to begin with, and I know the current top six has been mediocre, but I don't think kids are the answer for those roles, yet not now or in a couple of years, unless some of them step up. I love the look of the defense though, and it can only get better.

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Old
02-08-2007, 12:42 AM
  #87
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I'm going to be of the opinion that Sather is actually starting to give a damn about his job in New York, and I have a few reasons for that:

1) The team has done nothing since he got here. The moves he made in the old system, where management above him had the "Win Now" mantra, failed miserably. Him following orders from above means nothing. When all is said and done, the failure of the Rangers since Sather came to New York will rest with him and him alone.

2) Since the '04 firesale, Sather really hasn't made any bonehead trades. You have to admit, Carter for Jagr was a masterpiece. The Avery trade isn't a bad one because Avery is 26, and while Cliche was a nice prospect, the Rangers have boatloads of similar, 3rd-liner-to-be type prospects in the system. That's the main criticism of the system, ain't it?

3) My main point here is Sather is now managing for his reputation. Despite all the success in Edmonton, I think people are now starting to look at him as being a bystander more than an architect with that dynasty. During those years, Edmonton drafted poorly. How many of their late 1st rounders in those years panned out? And a majority now say the Jessiman pick was an absolute bust. I think Sather is smart enough to see all this and realize that he'd better start getting his act together. Maybe it's vanity, but I think Sather now is trying to rebuild the Rangers in order to preserve his legacy.
I think you bring up some very good points here. At 64 Sather isn't exactly ancient, but he won't be doing this forever. What Sather did in Edmonton will get him into the HOF, but what he ultimately does in New York is what he will be remembered for.

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Old
02-08-2007, 12:45 AM
  #88
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it is good Slats wants to keep the kids

but he also needs to work the cap better

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02-08-2007, 02:19 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by JRGNYR View Post
2) Since the '04 firesale, Sather really hasn't made any bonehead trades. You have to admit, Carter for Jagr was a masterpiece. The Avery trade isn't a bad one because Avery is 26, and while Cliche was a nice prospect, the Rangers have boatloads of similar, 3rd-liner-to-be type prospects in the system. That's the main criticism of the system, ain't it?
Just for arguments sake I'm going to say the Ozolinsh trade.

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02-08-2007, 02:36 AM
  #90
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I am all for trading Jagr. It would be stupid not to considering you know a team is going to be interested. Jagr serves the Rangers no purpose if they fail to make the playoffs and whatever he could bring back could sure be used in the future.

After that trade Nylander, Malik, Hall, and A.Ward.

What teams could afford JJ both contract wise and player wise though?

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02-08-2007, 03:00 AM
  #91
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Just for arguments sake I'm going to say the Ozolinsh trade.
Nieminen-->Bozolinsh.

a lateral move.

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02-08-2007, 04:28 AM
  #92
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The trick is determining the appropriate risk/reward scenario for trading players and acting on that.

Just keeping every draft pick because you don't want to "trade youth" is foolish.
Touche!

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Old
02-08-2007, 05:57 AM
  #93
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"A buyer could turn into a seller in four or five days,” Davidson said. “It is an interesting dynamic. It’s all changing"
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/spo...0?OpenDocument

The Rangers could be in that group

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Old
02-08-2007, 06:49 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
Look across the river at Jersey, NJ has a habit of taking collegiate players, especially those from teams that employee a system similar to that of Jersey's (UND looking at you here). So those kids when they come up to the pro game, fit in much more easily. In other words they don't have to be coached as much.
I'd be more inclined to buy into the Devils comparison of drafting if I saw a Gomez, Gionta or Elias on the horizon.

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02-08-2007, 07:33 AM
  #95
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Does Kevin Weekes have any value?If the Rangers traded him on 2/27,Weekes comes with a $415,000-$420,000 cap hit for the rest of the reason.He hasn't played since late December

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02-08-2007, 09:02 AM
  #96
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Some of the younger guys here you notice aren't positionally sound, Prucha, Pock, especially. You notice them being not where they are supposed to be

For example when the defensemen regroup, the puck is banked off of the back end boards behind your net, and the other guy is ready to receive it and send it up the boards up ice, many times you won't see the defenseman in position to receive that dump, instead it either goes up the middle for a turnover, skated out or turned over, or dumped down the ice and turned over
I'd say in general that the Rangers have had a much harder time this year effectively breaking the puck out of their own zone, and I think a large part of it has something to do with what you mentioned. The defense doesn't really get the support they need to break out the puck out well, a failing that falls on the forwards.

Some of it may be a scheme to collapse towards the front of the net while in the defensive zone, but if you watch a team like the Devils, you'll see them get the puck up the boards to a waiting winger and out of the zone just like that almost every time. With the Rangers, it's a huge struggle.

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02-08-2007, 01:17 PM
  #97
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I'd say in general that the Rangers have had a much harder time this year effectively breaking the puck out of their own zone, and I think a large part of it has something to do with what you mentioned. The defense doesn't really get the support they need to break out the puck out well, a failing that falls on the forwards.
It would certainly help if we had a good puck carrying defenseman. Pock is the closest we have. No one else can clear the zone on his own or gain the offensive zone on his own. A glaring weakness.

We were spoiled when we had Kovalev and Leetch for that.

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02-08-2007, 01:26 PM
  #98
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If Weekes played a bit more...

this season, he'd have some value, but value is relative - you're talking about a 4th rounder or so in value, not a serviceable player. At this point, the Rangers may be lucky to get that. Amazing how the Rangers were able to wipe out any value created from his last season with the 'Canes.

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02-08-2007, 01:27 PM
  #99
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Nylander and Straka seem to do it well, other then that no1

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02-08-2007, 01:46 PM
  #100
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this season, he'd have some value, but value is relative - you're talking about a 4th rounder or so in value, not a serviceable player. At this point, the Rangers may be lucky to get that. Amazing how the Rangers were able to wipe out any value created from his last season with the 'Canes.
Two teams might have some interest in Kevin Weekes:Minnesota and Carolina.Manny Fernandez is out with a knee injury.He is expected to return in 2 weeks but they said the same thing about Marian Gaborik.The Wild has Niklas Backstrom and Josh Harding who is a young kid.Maybe they want some insurance.Carolina has John Grahaeme as their back-up to Cam Ward.Last spring,they went into the playoffs with Martin Gerber but Ward replaced him early in the Montreal series.Weekes has won some big games in the playoffs for the Canes

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