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Retire Brad Park's #?

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Old
02-04-2014, 06:58 PM
  #26
Ratelleitlikeitis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Meaning that hey should retire every number between 1 and 30 so there are none left?
You mean you're not a fan of using jersey numbers >30 like Matteau,Amonte, Barnaby, McPhee, Sauer, Weight, Ortmeyer, Anisimov, Hollweg, Pilon, Fritsche, Tyutin, Sanguinetti,Ulanov, Dupuis, Jagr, Rupp, Espo, Hossa, Straka, Wolski, Brashear, Nylander, Lindros, Naslund, Nedved, Boogard, Gilroy, Gretzky.

Yes we might run out of numbers!

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Old
02-04-2014, 08:23 PM
  #27
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He was a great player, but

He played slightly more games as a Bruin, had slightly more points as a Bruin, was a Norris Trophy finalist for 2 of his seasons as a Bruin (4 times as a Ranger), played on a Bruin's team with a far better success rate in terms of playoff success than the Rangers were both during his tenure and when he was traded, and he was a Bruin during the typically most productive years of a defenseman, the mid to late late career years.

In that case, not only should we be retiring his number, but also they should be, but they didn't, and the Rangers won't, so don't bet on it.


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02-04-2014, 08:43 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
Meaning that hey should retire every number between 1 and 30 so there are none left?
No, they should retire the numbers of some of the greatest players Ranger history, and NHL history.

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Old
02-04-2014, 08:45 PM
  #29
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Park? I dunno, if Graves is hanging, there is a list of players who deserve to be up there well ahead of him. It's a sad testament to this franchise that four players are hanging from the 94 team and the Blackhawks only have 6 retired in their entire 88 year history. One team did it right, the other hung Graves after giving a royal F you to Cook and Boucher.

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Old
02-04-2014, 09:47 PM
  #30
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Park and Ratelle made it their personal mission to make the trade look bad for the Rangers. Park was especially pissed at Emile Francis. He was also pissed at the fans for booing him mercilessly on his first visit back to MSG. "I busted my ass for eight years and thats the reception I got. Turning the loyalties around had been very difficult for me until that happened. You know, the first time Espo went back to Boston, he got a standing ovation...". I wonder how much they had to pay Park to appear at Leetch's ceremony.

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02-04-2014, 11:13 PM
  #31
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Park? No.

Was Brian Leetch before Brian Leetch, but he never got it done here. If he never left, he'd probably have his number retired.

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02-04-2014, 11:27 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
Park? No.

Was Brian Leetch before Brian Leetch, but he never got it done here. If he never left, he'd probably have his number retired.
I disagree slightly, if he never left he should have had his number retired.

I still think it was wrong it took so long to retire Bathgate's number.

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Old
02-09-2014, 06:05 AM
  #33
chosen
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
No for Park--played more years as an opponent than as a Ranger.
Then pull down the sweaters of Messier and Gretzky, please.

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02-09-2014, 06:06 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Giacomin View Post
A very good Rangers player but he falls a bit short as a Ranger to have his number retired.
He was infinitely better than Graves.

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Old
02-09-2014, 07:18 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Then pull down the sweaters of Messier and Gretzky, please.
Gretzky? Huh?

It's sad that Cook and Boucher aren't up there when they clearly should be, but their numbers should have been retired 40-50 years ago. No way the organization looks back that far now, they've chosen to basically ignore that era for whatever reason. Excluding those two, I think Ratelle should be up there before Park. It's close, but all those years on the Bruins for Park do factor into it.

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Originally Posted by ReubenNYC View Post
Sentimentality aside, and all due respect to his qualities as a person, Graves has no business having his number retired. Like someone else suggested, name a trophy for him if you want. But the #9 banner should be Bathgate's alone.

The only number that I think needs to get up there right now is Jean Ratelle's #19. Hall of Famer. 6th most games as a Ranger, 2nd in goals, 3rd in assists and points. Ahead of Bathgate, Messier and Graves (all of whom have retired numbers) on all four counts. Personally, I think it's disgraceful that he's not up there.

After #19, we can close the books for a while. Maybe Henrik someday, if he earns every penny on this new contract. But nobody else.
Agree with everything in this post except for the last part. Henrik's not a maybe IMO, he's been our best player for almost a decade. Unless he completely falls apart over the next few years he deserves his number in the rafters.

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Old
02-09-2014, 07:55 AM
  #36
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People really don't give Graves the respect that he deserves. The guy was a fierce competitor, a tremendous asset to the organization and his teammates, and we don't win a Cup without him.

I'm all for Ratelle over Park. Park's career here wasn't long enough or accomplished enough as a Ranger. He suffers from playing somewhere else longer than here and actually had more points as a Bruin than as a Ranger. Is his number retired for Boston? Had his career been here over a few more seasons I'd be for it. But, when you have difficulty remembering a guy as a Ranger or as a Bruin that makes things difficult. A few people are worthy of having their numbers retired for multiple teams. Park isn't one of them. Messier is.

Some Graves stats that might surprise you among all time Rangers leaders:

Games: 9th
Goals: 3rd
Points: 10th
PP Goals: 3rd
Shorthanded Goals: 2nd
GWG: 6th
Shots: 2nd

Those are some pretty serious numbers for an organization that's been around for nearly 90 years.

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Old
02-09-2014, 08:08 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
People really don't give Graves the respect that he deserves. The guy was a fierce competitor, a tremendous asset to the organization and his teammates, and we don't win a Cup without him.

I'm all for Ratelle over Park. Park's career here wasn't long enough or accomplished enough as a Ranger. He suffers from playing somewhere else longer than here and actually had more points as a Bruin than as a Ranger. Is his number retired for Boston? Had his career been here over a few more seasons I'd be for it. But, when you have difficulty remembering a guy as a Ranger or as a Bruin that makes things difficult. A few people are worthy of having their numbers retired for multiple teams. Park isn't one of them. Messier is.

Some Graves stats that might surprise you among all time Rangers leaders:

Games: 9th
Goals: 3rd
Points: 10th
PP Goals: 3rd
Shorthanded Goals: 2nd
GWG: 6th
Shots: 2nd

Those are some pretty serious numbers for an organization that's been around for nearly 90 years.
The same organization that retired 2 numbers in 70 years before the 20 years running 1994 nostalgia show?

People who dont think Graves # should be retired are not disrespecting him in any way, shape, or form.

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Old
02-09-2014, 08:17 AM
  #38
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In a perfect world the Rangers would have two separate honors: number retirements and inductions to a team hall-of-fame. The most worthy get both. Someone like Graves, Park, and Ratelle would get the latter.

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Old
02-09-2014, 08:25 AM
  #39
haohmaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The same organization that retired 2 numbers in 70 years before the 20 years running 1994 nostalgia show?

People who dont think Graves # should be retired are not disrespecting him in any way, shape, or form.
I'm not endorsing what went on before the "nostalgia show". More than 2 Rangers' numbers should've been retired and, at this point, retiring them is pointless because of how long it's been overdue.

That doesn't mean that Messier, Richter, and Graves shouldn't be in the rafters. That team overcame 50+ years of futility and soul crushing losses.

But, whether or not Graves' # should be retired or not is a circular argument and, quite simply, a matter of opinion. Really no right or wrong there and I do understand the counter points to him not being there.

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02-09-2014, 09:29 AM
  #40
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02-09-2014, 09:34 AM
  #41
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In Rangers history, Adam Graves:

3rd in goals
9th in games played
10th in points

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02-09-2014, 09:36 AM
  #42
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27. Kovalev. End.

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Old
02-09-2014, 09:38 AM
  #43
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Henrik Lundqvist is 4 wins away from becoming the winningest goaltender in New York Rangers history.

2 shutouts away from most in New York Rangers history.

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Old
02-09-2014, 11:47 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Valuating View Post
Gretzky? Huh?

It's sad that Cook and Boucher aren't up there when they clearly should be, but their numbers should have been retired 40-50 years ago. No way the organization looks back that far now, they've chosen to basically ignore that era for whatever reason. Excluding those two, I think Ratelle should be up there before Park. It's close, but all those years on the Bruins for Park do factor into it.
Okay, Gretzky falls into a different category, but according to the parameters set here, Messier's number should not have been retired as a Ranger. You failed to address that.

As for Ratelle, he was a very good player, but he went in the same trade as Park, and while they were both here, you would be hard-pressed to prove that Ratelle had more of a positive effect on the fortunes of the Rangers.

No Orr, and this is not even a discussion.

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02-09-2014, 11:56 AM
  #45
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No Orr, and this is not even a discussion.
I agree. Kind of funny how that works sometimes.

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Old
02-09-2014, 11:56 AM
  #46
chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
People really don't give Graves the respect that he deserves. The guy was a fierce competitor, a tremendous asset to the organization and his teammates, and we don't win a Cup without him.

I'm all for Ratelle over Park. Park's career here wasn't long enough or accomplished enough as a Ranger.
Accomplished enough!!!!!!!!!????????????

The second best defenseman in the league over that span behind the best player to ever lace them up, and a hall-of famer, and his best years were as a Ranger, the very same years that propelled him into the Hall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
He suffers from playing somewhere else longer than here and actually had more points as a Bruin than as a Ranger. Is his number retired for Boston? Had his career been here over a few more seasons I'd be for it. But, when you have difficulty remembering a guy as a Ranger or as a Bruin that makes things difficult. A few people are worthy of having their numbers retired for multiple teams. Park isn't one of them. Messier is.
If you think Messier is considered more of a Ranger than an Oiler anywhere outside of NY you are sadly mistaken, so your argument holds no water.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Some Graves stats that might surprise you among all time Rangers leaders:

Games: 9th
Goals: 3rd
Points: 10th
PP Goals: 3rd
Shorthanded Goals: 2nd
GWG: 6th
Shots: 2nd

Those are some pretty serious numbers for an organization that's been around for nearly 90 years.
How many All-Star games did Graves play in as Ranger? How many times was he a top five player at his position? Now compare that to Park while he was a Ranger.

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Old
02-09-2014, 12:02 PM
  #47
chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixel View Post
Players:
Bill Cook
Frank Boucher
Ivan Johnson
Ehrhardt Heller
Bryan Hextall Sr.
Lynn Patrick
Ron Greschner

Management & Coaching:
Lester Patrick
Tex Rickard
Emile Francis
Herb Brooks
Greschner over Park?

Anyone who ever saw both of them play with that opinion just doesn't get it.

If games played count, Hadfield is more deserving than Graves, too, not to mention I thought he was the more effective player.

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Old
02-09-2014, 12:08 PM
  #48
Ratelleitlikeitis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixel View Post
In Rangers history, Adam Graves:

3rd in goals
9th in games played
10th in points
Ratelle rankings

Games played 6th despite trade
Goals. 2nd
Assists. 3rd
Points. 3rd

Second highest single season points 109 despite missing 10 + games with broken ankle.

Graves retired number with his stats ... Ratelle no doubt deserving...Just wondering if naysayers ever saw him play?

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Old
02-09-2014, 12:16 PM
  #49
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This might come off as a hipster opinion but I don't think Messier should have had his number retired by the organization. He chose to leave for money and made a mockery of the organization during his last few seasons as a player. From the '94 team, Leetch and Richter get nods from me. And it goes beyond them just winning a cup. Admittedly, I have very high standards for number retirements.

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Old
02-09-2014, 12:34 PM
  #50
chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
People really don't give Graves the respect that he deserves. The guy was a fierce competitor, a tremendous asset to the organization and his teammates, and we don't win a Cup without him.
By the way, we don't win a Cup without Kovalev. He outscored Graves in those playoffs.

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