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Sat., Feb. 8, 2014| Flames 1 at Flyers 2 (Grossmann, UBI, "minor" and "shoulder")

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02-08-2014, 09:07 PM
  #76
Appleyard
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Yeh, it is not like this is some completely unprecedented development curve either.

He was a top 9 NCAA point getter amongst D men all three years, he was on the All-American 2nd team, was twice CCHA best offensive D award winner. (he outproduced almost every notable future NHL dman in that time... a lot of 1st and 2nd rounders.)

He outproduced what Ghost has done so far...

He was an AHL all star and the ~8-10th best point producer from D in the AHL in his time there. (per game) (Outproduced a lot of NHLers past and future, same on the 1st and 2nd round front.)

Gus's AHL and college numbers when compared with other who went to the NHL indicate he would be a 25 point NHL D man.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/projecting_to_nhl.php

NCAA difficulty: 0.41 (41% of NHL points)
AHL difficulty: 0.44 (44% of NHL points)

Gus at NCAA: 0.76 PPG (62.32 per 82)
Gus at AHL: 0.66 PPG (54.12 per 82)

NCAA performance factored to NHL: 0.32 PPG (26 points per 82)
AHL performance factored to NHL: 0.29 PPG (24 points per 82)

And he is playing just like that at NHL level.

The only questions there ever really were with him were size and defensive ability at the NHL level... he has shown he has ample defensive ability... so the only mark left is his size. And at first size was a problem... but this year and last... not at all.

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02-08-2014, 09:12 PM
  #77
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He is top 50 (42nd) so far this decade in +/- in the NHL.

Only him and Lindholm in the top 50 have played less than 100 games.

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02-08-2014, 09:36 PM
  #78
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I think his defensive play is grossly under rated around here as well. I'm not saying he's amazing but he does very well. I don't know much about advanced stats but I'm sure they support this. Regardless he's most definitely an improvement over Mez and Gervais though some on here would have you think otherwise. It's not even debatable IMO anymore.

Anyway, don't look now but Emery is now above .900! He's sitting at .902 and Mason is on his way back up, currently sitting at .918.

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02-09-2014, 12:12 AM
  #79
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Can we bench Downie? He does way more bad then good. He'll be leading the league in turnovers if he keeps this pace up.

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02-09-2014, 12:45 AM
  #80
LegionOfDoom91
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Can we bench Downie? He does way more bad then good. He'll be leading the league in turnovers if he keeps this pace up.
The best was when he passed the puck back into the slot to Vinny with two guys on Vinny while he had Berra down & out all alone to the side of the net. That's basically Downie in a nut shell this year, just stupid plays constantly.


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02-09-2014, 12:47 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
The best was when he passed the puck back into the slot to Vinny with two guys on Vinny while he had Berra down & out all alone to the side of the net. That's basically Downie in a nut shell this year, just a stupid plays constantly.
I was literally pulling my hair, asking why he would do that. He's all kinds of useless right now.


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02-09-2014, 12:48 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
The best was when he passed the puck back into the slot to Vinny with two guys on Vinny while he had Berra down & out all alone to the side of the net. That's basically Downie in a nut shell this year, just a stupid plays constantly.
That looked more like the pass was in his skates and he knew he wasn't gonna get a good one-timer off, so he tried a one-touch pass to Vinny.


Maybe I'm just a Downie defender, but I haven't seen a whole ton to dislike so far this season Granted I did miss most of today's game, only saw the last 18 mins

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02-09-2014, 12:54 AM
  #83
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I like Downie & still think he's a good player but it's just not there for him this year. He's been really bad for a solid month or two now. For his sake I am hoping he's playing banged up because otherwise yikes.

If we can move him out at the deadline it would be beneficial to both parties I feel like. I much rather have Raffl & McGinn in the fold.

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02-09-2014, 12:55 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
That looked more like the pass was in his skates and he knew he wasn't gonna get a good one-timer off, so he tried a one-touch pass to Vinny.


Maybe I'm just a Downie defender, but I haven't seen a whole ton to dislike so far this season Granted I did miss most of today's game, only saw the last 18 mins
4 shizzle?!

Sorry, I go all Ebonics and **** sometimes when I'm surprised.

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02-09-2014, 07:50 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I like Downie & still think he's a good player but it's just not there for him this year. He's been really bad for a solid month or two now. For his sake I am hoping he's playing banged up because otherwise yikes.

If we can move him out at the deadline it would be beneficial to both parties I feel like. I much rather have Raffl & McGinn in the fold.
Downie's situation will be really interesting.

I don't really see an adequate return coming the Flyers' way if he is moved. If that's true we might want to hang onto him and sign him for 1x $1m and see what he can do next season.

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02-09-2014, 08:33 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Downie's situation will be really interesting.

I don't really see an adequate return coming the Flyers' way if he is moved. If that's true we might want to hang onto him and sign him for 1x $1m and see what he can do next season.
No way they could get him for $1m.

Him and his agent know his value... and a team like the Oilers would happily give him $3-3.5 million quite frankly!

Actually I imagine there are quite a few who would throw 3 million at him... it is pretty much his market value.

He is still on 36 point pace this year, while heading for a career high in assists... with a career low SH% and injuries... and playing below where he usually plays on average. and for the last 4 years has been averaging ~45 points per 82 games.

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02-09-2014, 08:42 AM
  #87
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I think the Flyers are going to just move on from Steve and allocate his money elsewhere. At this point, they should look to pencil Raffl in on the third line next year. His possession game should do wonders with Read and Couturier. McGinn can come up full time and give you some solid board play and energy on the fourth line.

I think Steve would benefit from going back out West to a more structured team. He's actually suited quite well for Sutter in L.A. if they keep him around. Allow him to play a dump and chase cycle game that's more appropriate for his skill set.

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02-09-2014, 08:55 AM
  #88
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I think the Flyers are going to just move on from Steve and allocate his money elsewhere. At this point, they should look to pencil Raffl in on the third line next year. His possession game should do wonders with Read and Couturier. McGinn can come up full time and give you some solid board play and energy on the fourth line.

I think Steve would benefit from going back out West to a more structured team. He's actually suited quite well for Sutter in L.A. if they keep him around. Allow him to play a dump and chase cycle game that's more appropriate for his skill set.
Pretty much...

the top nine next year kind of has to be:

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn/Vinny-Vinny/Schenn-Simmonds
Raffl-Couturier-Read

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02-09-2014, 09:10 AM
  #89
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Pretty much...

the top nine next year kind of has to be:

Hartnell-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn/Vinny-Vinny/Schenn-Simmonds
Raffl-Couturier-Read
Yeah, barring any massive offseason moves, that's the collection of forwards they should roll with. Obviously, there will be some shifting around at LW in particular, but I think our locked in combos will be Giroux/Voracek, Schenn/Simmonds, Couturier/Read. You just can't justify giving Downie over 3 million dollars to play mostly on the fourth line, especially when doesn't do much else. He doesn't pk, isn't a standout on the pp, and isn't over physical anymore.

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02-09-2014, 09:18 AM
  #90
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Plus Laughton will be trying to make the team too

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02-09-2014, 12:49 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Yeah, barring any massive offseason moves, that's the collection of forwards they should roll with. Obviously, there will be some shifting around at LW in particular, but I think our locked in combos will be Giroux/Voracek, Schenn/Simmonds, Couturier/Read. You just can't justify giving Downie over 3 million dollars to play mostly on the fourth line, especially when doesn't do much else. He doesn't pk, isn't a standout on the pp, and isn't over physical anymore.
The Flyers will find a way to overpay Downie. I'm almost certain that they will

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02-09-2014, 01:55 PM
  #92
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The Flyers will find a way to overpay Downie. I'm almost certain that they will
Really hope this isn't true. They should be looking to unload him at the deadline.

I honestly wish the Flyers just held on to Talbot. I mean I'm not shedding any tears, and Downie did help this team win some games when he was playing well with Read and Couts but Talbot would have provided more long term. It's a real shame the coaching staff thought Talbot needed to be in the top 9 for some reason. A 4th line of Raffl-Laughton-Talbot as early as next season would have been great for this team. Even this year with Hall and Raffl. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

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02-09-2014, 02:22 PM
  #93
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Really hope this isn't true. They should be looking to unload him at the deadline.

I honestly wish the Flyers just held on to Talbot. I mean I'm not shedding any tears, and Downie did help this team win some games when he was playing well with Read and Couts but Talbot would have provided more long term. It's a real shame the coaching staff thought Talbot needed to be in the top 9 for some reason. A 4th line of Raffl-Laughton-Talbot as early as next season would have been great for this team. Even this year with Hall and Raffl. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.
I liked Max Talbot, but he was making too much money to be a fourth liner really. I'd be fine with a RInaldo-Hall-Raffl fourth line. RInaldo provides hits and energy, Hall provides excellent face off ability and defense, while Raffl is solid offensively and defensively.

I'd like to move DOwnie and Vinny. I really don't want Vinny for 5 years. I'd like to see Laughton up here soon

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02-09-2014, 02:40 PM
  #94
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when i watch him play he looks like he just has nothing left.makes dumb plays.brings nothing.oh wait...nothing left,dumb plays,brings nothing...kinda reminds me of vinny.he(THEY) needs to be gone.

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02-09-2014, 02:44 PM
  #95
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I liked Max Talbot, but he was making too much money to be a fourth liner really. I'd be fine with a RInaldo-Hall-Raffl fourth line. RInaldo provides hits and energy, Hall provides excellent face off ability and defense, while Raffl is solid offensively and defensively.

I'd like to move DOwnie and Vinny. I really don't want Vinny for 5 years. I'd like to see Laughton up here soon
I think Rinaldo is a good 13th forward. IMO he shouldn't be playing every day. All the top teams around the league have a 4th line capable of playing 12+ minutes a night without being a detriment to the team. The Flyers currently don't have that with Rinaldo in the line-up.

Yes, Max was making more then the average 4th liner but I don't think I'd say "too much" because that's a relative phrase. It wasn't really an issue with the Flyers especially with the cap going up. I doubt anyone would say he's makes too much if he was under 1.5 per. I mean does that .3 mil really make that much of a difference?

I think Laughton should start in the AHL. If he earns the spot out of camp then give it to him but he shouldn't just be handed a roster spot cause he's the organizations top prospect. I can't imagine it would take long for him to get the promotion anyhow, within his first season most definitely. To connect with the above, if/when Laughton does make the NHL team the 4th line should consist of Raffl-Laughton-Hall IMO. Again, I just don't think Rinaldo should be playing every game.

I agree about Vinny btw. The team would be better suited with a legit winger. He can't play wing and he's not good enough for center on the Flyers current roster so he's almost useless right now. I would wait until next season most likely to see if he can adjust. I mean honestly he's played wing for what, like 25 games now. That's not very much time. Hopefully this break will allow him to heal up and come back with a strong second half.

If the Flyers can hold out another year at least maybe he'd be willing to go back to Tampa to finish out his career. That time line would also clear up some cap space for Ryan. Sorry, I had to.


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02-09-2014, 02:47 PM
  #96
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Hopefully this break is right what the doctor ordered for guys like Vinny & Downie.

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02-09-2014, 03:26 PM
  #97
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Hopefully this break is right what the doctor ordered for guys like Vinny & Downie.
hope so.at this point in their careers some r+r could be huge.

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02-09-2014, 03:34 PM
  #98
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Break probably comes at the wrong time since Berube would have been forced to either play Gus/Mez at the same time, or risk allegations of incompetence

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