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Old
02-08-2014, 09:56 PM
  #26
zarley zelepukin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Considering who the first best player is, that really isn't saying much though. Giroux's point totals over the past 4 years now are pretty incredible, not many players have more (total points or even ppg numbers). He's definitely a top 10 offensive player. My point is Jake could be an All-Star and he'd still be the second best player on the first line.
That's all true. So, to be clear I'm saying that Voracek can't carry a first line. If he's the best player on a line, it's either not a first line or not a very good one, unless maybe the other two players are similarly skilled and have excellent chemistry.

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02-09-2014, 08:59 AM
  #27
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I love Jake, always have since the QM days where he was chasing G up the scoring ladder. I still love his game, but it's not the same kind of game that he used to play and I don't see the chemistry between him and G that everyone else is feeling. He used to be a pure playmaking passer and kept his head up all the time. Now, he's more of a jack of all offensive trades but his head is down all the time. Too often it seems like the 2 of them don't pace well up the ice together, and too often I see head-down backhanders floating through the middle of the offensive zone from him.

They're a wildly inconsistent pairing and have no chemistry to fall back onto. Im not sure what it is about Jake's 55-point pace that has everyone so adamant that 1RW is his locked up spot. Considering who he's playing with, how little is expected of him defensively, and how much time he gets on the top pp-unit I actually think he's doing quite poorly as G's shotgun. Its certainly wayyy past his time for all this prime ice he just isn't using for us.

I think he has way more to offer as the possession anchor for a 2nd line than he has to offer Giroux on the 1st- he's not a scorer and doesnt keep his head up. G needs someone who is playing with and off of him, not someone whos playing such an independent.

They find success because we're talking about two tremendous athletes, but not consistently and I think Jake's detached style is actually holding Giroux back.

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02-09-2014, 12:00 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by tymed View Post
I love Jake, always have since the QM days where he was chasing G up the scoring ladder. I still love his game, but it's not the same kind of game that he used to play and I don't see the chemistry between him and G that everyone else is feeling. He used to be a pure playmaking passer and kept his head up all the time. Now, he's more of a jack of all offensive trades but his head is down all the time. Too often it seems like the 2 of them don't pace well up the ice together, and too often I see head-down backhanders floating through the middle of the offensive zone from him.

They're a wildly inconsistent pairing and have no chemistry to fall back onto. Im not sure what it is about Jake's 55-point pace that has everyone so adamant that 1RW is his locked up spot. Considering who he's playing with, how little is expected of him defensively, and how much time he gets on the top pp-unit I actually think he's doing quite poorly as G's shotgun. Its certainly wayyy past his time for all this prime ice he just isn't using for us.

I think he has way more to offer as the possession anchor for a 2nd line than he has to offer Giroux on the 1st- he's not a scorer and doesnt keep his head up. G needs someone who is playing with and off of him, not someone whos playing such an independent.

They find success because we're talking about two tremendous athletes, but not consistently and I think Jake's detached style is actually holding Giroux back.
I don't know, I feel Giroux really works well with possession type players, which is a rare quality for an elite player to have, admittedly, but we saw it in full effect with Jagr, and now I believe we're seeing it with Jake. I think it's partially due to his size. NHL.com has him listed at 5'11" (which I think is a bit generous) and 170 lbs., so having somebody around to work along the boards for him goes a long way.

But I agree somewhat - having a legitimate sniper on that top line would be immense.

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02-09-2014, 02:35 PM
  #29
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If that top line had a knockdown, drag out, sniper -- it would be terrifying.

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02-09-2014, 02:54 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by DownieFaceSoftener View Post
If that top line had a knockdown, drag out, sniper -- it would be terrifying.
I think Avalanche fans had the same thought when they added Kariya and Selanne to the core of Sakic and Forsberg. It didn't work, though.

I think what Voracek brings to the rink is comparable to what Jagr brought, and we saw what that amounted to (whole lotta points).

This team needs to focus on getting its D straightened out; not how they're going to get Giroux from 80/90 points to 100.

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02-09-2014, 03:10 PM
  #31
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Ynow what I'd love to see just for the hell of it?

Schenn-Giroux-Simmonds
Hartnell-Lecavelier-Voracek

The two best playmakers (Giroux and Voracek) would be split up so instead of passing to each other constantly they would be passing to people who like to shoot (Schenn and Lecavelier).

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02-09-2014, 03:30 PM
  #32
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I prefer Schenn down the middle than on the wing. He's noticeably way better when playing his natural position at center. Him & Voracek were tearing it up last year before they moved Voracek up to play with Giroux.

The Schenn to wing experiment has been tried many times now & he always finds himself back in the middle at some point. It's time to just admit he's a center & leave the kid be. The Flyers have been jerking him around too much & it's not helping his development.

Even if he's not in the plans for down the road they're just ruining his value by moving him around like that.


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02-09-2014, 04:51 PM
  #33
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Where does one go to see and maybe purchase a Voracek Czech Republic Olympic jersey?

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02-09-2014, 06:54 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
I think Avalanche fans had the same thought when they added Kariya and Selanne to the core of Sakic and Forsberg. It didn't work, though.

I think what Voracek brings to the rink is comparable to what Jagr brought, and we saw what that amounted to (whole lotta points).

This team needs to focus on getting its D straightened out; not how they're going to get Giroux from 80/90 points to 100.
I think most of the comparisons drawn to Jagr are pretty weak tbh. Other than being Czech and knowing how to use their big bodies along the boards, what else really is there? We're talking about a HOF player here, Jake has yet to eclipse over 50 points now in his 7th season. Hell, Jagr even came in 2 years ago at like 40 and outdid that without any speed. The difference between these guys is simple despite their physical similarities. Jagr had patience, could slow down a game, never had his head down and most importantly never forced plays. Jake is always pressing, always has his head down and speeds up the game-- He always forces the play. He needs to adapt to and play WITH Giroux, not force the plays and have G trying to read off his very different style. He needs to work his game around his body and not around his speed if he wants to play with G.

Agreed this team needs to spend more focus on the defence but im not suggesting anything more than moving Jake back a line and giving a guy like Simmonds a shot because he deserves it more than Jake does.

I don't like to come in here and make suggestions about trades and how we need one of these and one of those types- Its a waste of thought and I try to post around the team we actually do have, not what I dream to be put together. If Jake wants to play the game he does with all the speed and forced plays, it'd be more beneficial to the team for him to anchor a line of his own and have players working off of him as the central play conceiver--too much of this trying to be the man--when G is the man.

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02-09-2014, 08:09 PM
  #35
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I think the Jagr - Voracek comparisons are because:

They play the same position.

They have a very similar body type... Jake is basically just a 'half-frame' down. (6'3 v 6'2, 230 v 230)

Their skating style and quirks are very similar. (the right foot push in possession while leaning in on a semi rigid left (if you know what I mean), glide n' turn go too, the stutter step, linebacker half hunch style backwards skating,(lower than a lot of players) low, heavy centre of gravity, minimal, effortless, both look the same when accelerating (the short, fast bambambam start then into effortless glide) core happy, strength of stride, backing in with ass.)

Voracek obviously styled his puck control on Jagr (one hand locked in, off arm (with one hand on stick) and elbow/shoulder/ass used to control forechecker (with both hands on stick), slight hunch, ass out, initiate contact as puckhandler, robotic stick. (very abrupt movements at times)

Both brought up in the same town, at the same club, several of the same coaches...

I mean, the void in class is of course gigantic (no knock on Voracek) but I do understand from a sheer appearance on ice standpoint why they are compared. I know he idolised Jagr, and he obviously spent a lot of time pretending to be him in his youth...

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02-09-2014, 08:16 PM
  #36
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On pace for about 56 points. I must say, I expected more than that this year from Jake, especially playing next to Giroux.

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02-09-2014, 08:29 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniped View Post
On pace for about 56 points. I must say, I expected more than that this year from Jake, especially playing next to Giroux.
I think my preseason prediction was 65-70... so yeh, a bit.

He was on pace for over just over 60 until very recently though I believe.

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02-09-2014, 08:40 PM
  #38
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I thought he was doing better than that. That's really disappointing.

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02-10-2014, 07:19 AM
  #39
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He started very slowly (like a lot of the team) then has been hindered recently by smashed fingers.

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02-10-2014, 08:36 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniped View Post
On pace for about 56 points. I must say, I expected more than that this year from Jake, especially playing next to Giroux.
Yeah even though he has been decent, he's been disappointing. I thought last year he was just scratching the surface. I was hoping to see him and G light it up on the top line, but realistically I thought 60-70. 56 isn't too bad, I just had my hopes up. Hell he had ten less points than that in half the games last year.

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02-10-2014, 10:34 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by RespectTheMajor View Post
Where does one go to see and maybe purchase a Voracek Czech Republic Olympic jersey?
I've been trying to look something up, not much of a success. I'm not sure why the Czech jerseys aren't even on the official Nike web store... They are on the Czech Nike web store however - official Czech Nike web page redirects you to the following page: club.sportmade.cz/Potisk-1191/NIKE-REPLIKA-CESKEHO-NARODNIHO-HOKEJOVEHO-DRESU-2014

There you can get a blank, customizable jersey (name up to 8 characters, no idea why; but that's not a big deal in the case of Voracek). Unfortunately it seems like they don't ship to the US. Maybe, considering they ship to countries like Germany or UK, you could e-mail them about whether they could ship one to you to the US. The address I would suggest would be info@sportmade.eu . Hopefully this was at least a bit helpful; in case I find any other option I will PM you or comment here.

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02-10-2014, 11:55 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleyard View Post
I think the Jagr - Voracek comparisons are because:

They play the same position.

They have a very similar body type... Jake is basically just a 'half-frame' down. (6'3 v 6'2, 230 v 230)

Their skating style and quirks are very similar. (the right foot push in possession while leaning in on a semi rigid left (if you know what I mean), glide n' turn go too, the stutter step, linebacker half hunch style backwards skating,(lower than a lot of players) low, heavy centre of gravity, minimal, effortless, both look the same when accelerating (the short, fast bambambam start then into effortless glide) core happy, strength of stride, backing in with ass.)

Voracek obviously styled his puck control on Jagr (one hand locked in, off arm (with one hand on stick) and elbow/shoulder/ass used to control forechecker (with both hands on stick), slight hunch, ass out, initiate contact as puckhandler, robotic stick. (very abrupt movements at times)

Both brought up in the same town, at the same club, several of the same coaches...

I mean, the void in class is of course gigantic (no knock on Voracek) but I do understand from a sheer appearance on ice standpoint why they are compared. I know he idolised Jagr, and he obviously spent a lot of time pretending to be him in his youth...
Pretty much this. I don't think anybody is saying that Jake is as good as Jagr (which is no knock against Jake), just that they play a similar type of possession game.

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02-10-2014, 12:07 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf View Post
Pretty much this. I don't think anybody is saying that Jake is as good as Jagr (which is no knock against Jake), just that they play a similar type of possession game.
According to someone on the main boards he's as good as Marty St. Louis...but probably not as good as Kadri.

EDIT:

I need someone else to tell me I'm not crazy in order to keep my head from exploding. This is from the main boards when I asked a poster to list the top pplayers in the league with worse linemates than Grioux.

Quote:
Elite players with similar (or worse) linemates include:

Crosby
Getzlaf
Tavares, until partway through this year
Kessel
Perry
Staal
Kane
Benn
Seguin
Zetterberg
Datsyuk
Kopitar
Parise
Jagr
Elias
Nash
Spezza
Ryan
Malkin
Thornton, until Hertl went down
Couture
Marleau
St Louis
Sedin
Sedin
Kesler
Ovechkin
Backstrom

Or pretty much everybody. If there are some that aren't there, it's probably because I don't consider them elite or more likely I forgot, not because they don't have a similar situation.

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02-10-2014, 12:30 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
According to someone on the main boards he's as good as Marty St. Louis...but probably not as good as Kadri.

EDIT:

I need someone else to tell me I'm not crazy in order to keep my head from exploding. This is from the main boards when I asked a poster to list the top pplayers in the league with worse linemates than Grioux.
That dude is just a troll. You're not crazy.

I've looked into that myself - I don't know if it means anything, but it seems to be a trend, that almost every elite player in the NHL has a teammate that is nearly as talented. You have Crosby/Malkin, Stamkos/St Louis, Toews/Kane, Getzlaf/Perry, Ovechkin/Backstrom, Tavares/Vanek, Zetterberg/Datsyuk... The list goes on. Given - not all of them play on the same line together, but even then it must screw with match ups at least, right? I might be biased about it, and there's probably lots of little details I'm glossing over here, but I just thought it was interesting.

I was really hoping Voracek could be that guy for us, but I don't know if he's consistent enough. Even last year when he was scoring at a PPG pace, with the types of goals he was scoring - I never really expected him to keep it up. I still think he's a great player, and a good line mate for Giroux, but I just don't think he's a PPG, 40 goal player that a lot of people thought he was going to be after last season.

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02-10-2014, 12:43 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Funf View Post
That dude is just a troll. You're not crazy.

I've looked into that myself - I don't know if it means anything, but it seems to be a trend, that almost every elite player in the NHL has a teammate that is nearly as talented. You have Crosby/Malkin, Stamkos/St Louis, Toews/Kane, Getzlaf/Perry, Ovechkin/Backstrom, Tavares/Vanek, Zetterberg/Datsyuk... The list goes on. Given - not all of them play on the same line together, but even then it must screw with match ups at least, right? I might be biased about it, and there's probably lots of little details I'm glossing over here, but I just thought it was interesting.

I was really hoping Voracek could be that guy for us, but I don't know if he's consistent enough. Even last year when he was scoring at a PPG pace, with the types of goals he was scoring - I never really expected him to keep it up. I still think he's a great player, and a good line mate for Giroux, but I just don't think he's a PPG, 40 goal player that a lot of people thought he was going to be after last season.
Yea I think Jake is a 1st liner, and Schenn will be probably next year, but Giroux is lacking that top end partner that makes the elite players in the league seem "more elite." If you know what I mean...Like when Mcnabb finally got TO.

I think the biggest need is a #1 defender, and then after that a top end winger to play with Giroux. I think it's probably easier to get the winger and build a really solid D lacking the top end talent, than it is to acquire a #1 dman. That's probably the way I'd go, and hope Morin or Hagg is that #1 guy in 4 years

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02-10-2014, 12:45 PM
  #46
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Voarcek still has two more seasons till he needs a new deal. He could be a 30-40 guy, but he's not really a natural goal scorer.

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02-10-2014, 12:54 PM
  #47
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Voarcek still has two more seasons till he needs a new deal. He could be a 30-40 guy, but he's not really a natural goal scorer.
I think he's most likely of a 18-22 goals, 35-40 assists guy, who'll throw in a year of 25 goals and 45 assists.

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02-10-2014, 04:12 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RespectTheMajor View Post
Where does one go to see and maybe purchase a Voracek Czech Republic Olympic jersey?
I just ordered mine earlier today. Go to http://www.fanda-nhl.cz/napiste-nam/ . That's the websites comment/contact box, tell them you want a Voracek Czech Republic Olympic hockey jersey and would like to know if they ship to the US. They should respond within one business day. I emailed at 1 am and they sent me something around 3 pm today. They'll ask for your address for shipping cost purposes.

All together it was $125 US

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