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Expected fire sale date - Feb. 16th

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Old
02-08-2007, 10:22 AM
  #1
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Expected fire sale date - Feb. 16th

We play Tampa at home, Washington and Carolina on the road. I do not expect this team to win either of the road games. After they lose them, it should be clear even to the dolts running this organization that they aren't making the playoffs. Hopefully, it will also be clear that Renney is clueless and they will fire him immediately. Then maybe we can see the kids called called up. I'm truly stunned that Hossa and Betts still take the ice for this team. To me Betts is a bust as a second round pick. It's enough already. I see him offering nothing compared to players we have at Hartford. Hossa is just pathetic. Don't get me started on Hollweg. I've never seen a player accomplish less and get support from Rangers fans.

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02-08-2007, 10:37 AM
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If you think Hollweg is uselss I think you're watching a different team. Not every player needs to be a scorer. Why do you think the Devils have been so successful? No one on their team aside from Elias throughout the years (with the exception of Gionta and Gomez's break out last year) can score worth a damn on that team. Yet they have guys like Pandolfo, Madden etc., who do the little things, the role plays.
As for Hossa, I can't help but want to keep him around. He has the raw talent to be a star, it's the execution that's the problem, but I just feel like if we trade him, he's going to become a star elsewhere and it's going to bite us in the a** everytime we play him for the next 10 years.
With Betts, I agree, he sucks, get him off the friggin ice already.
Honestly, I think we're going to go 2-1 in the next 3 games, which might even be worse because then there will be a chance we make the playoffs, in which case I can see Sather trading all the youngsters for old guys like Forsberg or Bertuzzi (god help us) or something. Whatever happens, I either want us to just stand pat, or trade away vets...if we really fall out, I'd love us to trade Shanny for some good prospects, and then resign him in the offseason, a la Mark Recchi. Hopefully we can get rid of Hall too, and Malik would be a huge added bonus...God our defense is attrocious.

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02-08-2007, 10:57 AM
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Keep supporting players who have no points, don't kill penalties, aren't great even strength defenders, aren't enforcers, can't pass or stickhandle. That's the ticket for a team making the playoffs.

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02-08-2007, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by donutboy View Post
We play Tampa at home, Washington and Carolina on the road. I do not expect this team to win either of the road games. After they lose them, it should be clear even to the dolts running this organization that they aren't making the playoffs. Hopefully, it will also be clear that Renney is clueless and they will fire him immediately. Then maybe we can see the kids called called up. I'm truly stunned that Hossa and Betts still take the ice for this team. To me Betts is a bust as a second round pick. It's enough already. I see him offering nothing compared to players we have at Hartford. Hossa is just pathetic. Don't get me started on Hollweg. I've never seen a player accomplish less and get support from Rangers fans.
the rangers will stand pat or be buyers.

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02-08-2007, 11:07 AM
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I totally disagree. They aren't standing pat. They aren't going to sit there if they are out of it and keep guys like Hossa, Betts, Pock, Hollweg and Rachunek around. They will deal to create roster spots so they finally can play kids. Or send them to the minors if possible. There is not point playing scrubs like above period. Especially if they are out of it.

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02-08-2007, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by donutboy View Post
We play Tampa at home, Washington and Carolina on the road. I do not expect this team to win either of the road games. After they lose them, it should be clear even to the dolts running this organization that they aren't making the playoffs. Hopefully, it will also be clear that Renney is clueless and they will fire him immediately. Then maybe we can see the kids called called up. I'm truly stunned that Hossa and Betts still take the ice for this team. To me Betts is a bust as a second round pick. It's enough already. I see him offering nothing compared to players we have at Hartford. Hossa is just pathetic. Don't get me started on Hollweg. I've never seen a player accomplish less and get support from Rangers fans.
We do not have players in Hartford that will ever be by far better than Blair Betts and Ryan Hollweg.

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02-08-2007, 11:12 AM
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Hollweg is at least useful as an energy player. He skates well and forechecks hard--hits hard. The problem is we have a disfunctional 2nd line and a 3rd line that contributes almost nothing. Dumping Hollweg is not going to solve either of those problems and IMO with the current personnel we have at forward would make us an easier team to play against. If you want to dump forwards I would start with Orr--go to Hall and then Krog. Cullen who is being paid too much (at least for what he's doing now). Betts and Hossa haven't exactly been world beaters either--to me those two are of somewhat equal value to Hollweg though.

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02-08-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
We do not have players in Hartford that will ever be by far better than Blair Betts and Ryan Hollweg.
I just want to make sure I'm reading this right. Are you saying that the players we have in Hartford will NEVER be as good as Betts and Hollweg.

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02-08-2007, 11:15 AM
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How many have trade value? Nylander, Straka, Shanny, A Ward, Rachunek, Hall. Can they yield at least 3 1st, 4 2nd, 3 3rd and rid Kasper?

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02-08-2007, 11:26 AM
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I just want to make sure I'm reading this right. Are you saying that the players we have in Hartford will NEVER be as good as Betts and Hollweg.
Not in absolute terms, but for the roles they are playing on this team. Who is potentially better shutdown centre that Betts? Who is better defensive wing than Hollweg? The two guys I like are Dubinski and Callahan. They may be ready for NHL. Both are offensive forwards. The only guy that is good defensively is Isbister, who could be equal to or better at times than Hollweg, but he is not a kid the poster I replied to calls for.


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02-08-2007, 11:29 AM
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I actually think this team will sell off some luggage if they lose 3 of their next 4 games.

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02-08-2007, 11:33 AM
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Let me ask you guys something.

This team missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons up until last year. In the offseason Shanahan took less money to come to New York, and the Rangers were able to sign 2 pretty respectable players from a Stanley Cup Winning team in Cullen and Ward, plus Rachunek came back and so did Straka, not to mention the fact that the team was no longer the laughing stock of the league as they finally earned some respect and attention. These players wanted to play for this team.

If you are the management of the Rangers and you want to lure some big free agents to come here over the summer (like everyone is talking about - a defensman and a real top center), you have to spike their interest in the team. How is missing the playoffs going to help that? You cant dangle a huge contract in front of them either cause thats the old way of the rangers and the its not smart cap work. The difference is very big. Players outside the team don't follow this team like we do, All they see are standings, the difference of them seeing the Rangers in 12th or 8th the year before could alter their decision in coming or not. Even though, in reality, the team has huge holes and are inconsistent as hell.

SO do you really expect the Rangers not to make a legitamate push for the playoffs and become sellers?

Going back to square one isnt going to help this team right now.

Now of course they dont want to sell the farm off to get a rental, but if they can make and upgrade that can help in the shortrun and hopefully spur this team into the playoffs you can beat your ass they are gonna make it, even if its considered by some to be too late.

Even if its blatantly evident that this team is not a playoff squad, the Rangers will want to retain some of what was accomplished last season. Hey if the Rangers find a way to make the playoffs and win just 1 game....1 GAME... it will be considered an improvement from last year.

Dellapina opened my eyes to this. Even though i am just as frustrated as everyone else in thinking that should become sellers, this is probably whats gonna happen IMO too.


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02-08-2007, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Let me ask you guys something.

This team missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons up until last year. In the offseason Shanahan took less money to come to New York, and the Rangers were able to sign 2 pretty respectable players from a Stanley Cup Winning team in Cullen and Ward, plus Rachunek came back and so did Straka, not to mention the fact that the team was no longer the laughing stock of the league as they earned some respect and attention. These players wanted to play for this team.

If you are the management of the Rangers and you want to lure some big free agents to come here over the summer (like everyone is talking about - a defensman and a real top center), you have to spike their interest in the team. How is missing the playoffs going to help that? You cant dangle a huge contract in front of them either cuase thats the old way of the rangers and the its not smart in the new NHL cap world.

SO do you really expect the Rangers not to make a legitamate push for the playoffs and become sellers?

Going back to square one isnt going to help this team right now.

Now of course they dont want to sell the farm off to get a rental, but if they can make and upgrade that can help in the shortrun and hopefully spur this team into the playoffs you can beat your ass they are gonna make it, even if its considered by some to be too late.

Even if its blatantly evident that this team is not a playoff squad, the Rangers will want to retain some of what was accomplished last season. Hey if the Rangers find a way to make the playoffs and win just 1 game.... it will be considered an improvement from last year.
Unfortunately at this point it'll take a miracle for this team to make the playoffs. They'd have to accumulate points at a rate they haven't even come close to this season, hope some key players don't get hurt like they did last year, and STILL get a lot of help.

With so many divisional and conference games, the teams they're chasing will all be playing each other A LOT, and that means 2-3 points will be handed out in a lot of games. The Rangers would have to keep winning just to not fall further behind.

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02-08-2007, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Let me ask you guys something.

This team missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons up until last year. In the offseason Shanahan took less money to come to New York, and the Rangers were able to sign 2 pretty respectable players from a Stanley Cup Winning team in Cullen and Ward, plus Rachunek came back and so did Straka, not to mention the fact that the team was no longer the laughing stock of the league as they finally earned some respect and attention. These players wanted to play for this team.

If you are the management of the Rangers and you want to lure some big free agents to come here over the summer (like everyone is talking about - a defensman and a real top center), you have to spike their interest in the team. How is missing the playoffs going to help that? You cant dangle a huge contract in front of them either cuase thats the old way of the rangers and the its not smart in the new NHL cap world.

SO do you really expect the Rangers not to make a legitamate push for the playoffs and become sellers?

Going back to square one isnt going to help this team right now.

Now of course they dont want to sell the farm off to get a rental, but if they can make and upgrade that can help in the shortrun and hopefully spur this team into the playoffs you can beat your ass they are gonna make it, even if its considered by some to be too late.

Even if its blatantly evident that this team is not a playoff squad, the Rangers will want to retain some of what was accomplished last season. Hey if the Rangers find a way to make the playoffs and win just 1 game.... it will be considered an improvement from last year.

Dellapina opened my eyes to this. Even though i am just as frustrated as everyone else in thinking that they might become sellers, this is probably whats gonna happen IMO too.
I think the only F/A the Rangers will sign this offseason is a high profile center (not including guys they already have)

I think they see Marc Staal as their savior and therefore dont need to have another defenseman signed to a 200 million dollar contract or whatever.

Our D could look something like this next year:

Staal Tyutin

Rozsival Rachunek

Baranka Girardi

malik, pock, etc are traded/released/sign elsewhere.

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02-08-2007, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Our D could look something like this next year:

Staal Tyutin

Rozsival Rachunek

Baranka Girardi

malik, pock, etc are traded/released/sign elsewhere.
Wow, that defense is abysmal...

I don't think anyone is expecting Staal to be a savior. While he has great longterm potential, sneaking into the top 4 would be wishful thinking, and top pair is just too high of an expectation.

Like it or not, the Rangers will throw big money at a top four this offseason (ie. Phillips). However, there is no #1 available in this year's UFA crop.

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02-08-2007, 11:58 AM
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Unfortunately at this point it'll take a miracle for this team to make the playoffs. They'd have to accumulate points at a rate they haven't even come close to this season, hope some key players don't get hurt like they did last year, and STILL get a lot of help.

With so many divisional and conference games, the teams they're chasing will all be playing each other A LOT, and that means 2-3 points will be handed out in a lot of games. The Rangers would have to keep winning just to not fall further behind.
I dont disagree with you. I dont think it will be a miracle per say, but very difficult nonetheless.
But even though the window is closing, 2 wins in the next 3 might be enough to convince Sather to make that push, especially if you are thinking that there is a 3rd of the season left.

Fellas, im not saying that this is what I want. im saying this is what i believe the Rangers thought process is. As turbulent as the season has been, i just dont think this team will give up.

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02-08-2007, 12:01 PM
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Keep supporting players who have no points, don't kill penalties, aren't great even strength defenders, aren't enforcers, can't pass or stickhandle. That's the ticket for a team making the playoffs.
How do you know they can't do these things, Renney hasn't used Hollweg on the PK, it doesn't mean he can't do it..... Hollweg can skate, you can develop his stickhandeling and etc. He is still young..... If he got more then six or seven minutes of ice time a night, he would be developing at a much quicker pace.....
If want to trade him, if he can't do all those things that you say, what makes you think a playoff team is going to want to add them to their line up.... It just doesn't make sense..... You wouldn't be able to trade him..... Yet, their are quite a few teams that would love to have him on their team......

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02-08-2007, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post

If you are the management of the Rangers and you want to lure some big free agents to come here over the summer (like everyone is talking about - a defensman and a real top center), you have to spike their interest in the team. How is missing the playoffs going to help that?
An argument could be made that planning for next year rather than throwing a futile playoff effort at this season is more appealing to a UFA.

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02-08-2007, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Let me ask you guys something.

This team missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons up until last year. In the offseason Shanahan took less money to come to New York, and the Rangers were able to sign 2 pretty respectable players from a Stanley Cup Winning team in Cullen and Ward, plus Rachunek came back and so did Straka, not to mention the fact that the team was no longer the laughing stock of the league as they finally earned some respect and attention. These players wanted to play for this team.

If you are the management of the Rangers and you want to lure some big free agents to come here over the summer (like everyone is talking about - a defensman and a real top center), you have to spike their interest in the team. How is missing the playoffs going to help that? You cant dangle a huge contract in front of them either cuase thats the old way of the rangers and the its not smart in the new NHL cap world. The difference is very big. Players outside the team don't follow this team like we do, All they see are standings, the difference of them seeing the Rangers in 12th or 8th the year before could alter their decision in coming or not.

SO do you really expect the Rangers not to make a legitamate push for the playoffs and become sellers?

Going back to square one isnt going to help this team right now.

Now of course they dont want to sell the farm off to get a rental, but if they can make and upgrade that can help in the shortrun and hopefully spur this team into the playoffs you can beat your ass they are gonna make it, even if its considered by some to be too late.

Even if its blatantly evident that this team is not a playoff squad, the Rangers will want to retain some of what was accomplished last season. Hey if the Rangers find a way to make the playoffs and win just 1 game.... it will be considered an improvement from last year.

Dellapina opened my eyes to this. Even though i am just as frustrated as everyone else in thinking that they might become sellers, this is probably whats gonna happen IMO too.
Once in blue moon even Delapina says accurate things... I agree there will not be any big fire sell. Not because of UFAs next summer, but because any sell off makes Dolan to lose money. The decision to push for PO is made based on all available indications. So if we are byers and do not make a playoffs, we will not be hurt as much being stacked up with rentals, they will go away by the season end. Sather is trusted not to get us in the hole there. He promised not to. Only time will show if he in fact wont.
As far as UFA are concerned, they look at who is in goal besides other thing. Lundqvist is a guarantee that team will be in contention of some sort for years to come. Plus Jagr and Shanahan will be kept.
So Star level 2C will not be a problem. The young players that are currently in the pipeline will be traded away to obtain rentals, while true talent Staal, Sagunetty, Anisimov, Montoya will be kept as much as possible. I can see anyone from WolfPaclks go. Those in junior teams will be held.
There is also a good possibility that nothing will be done.

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02-08-2007, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post

Staal Tyutin

Rozsival Rachunek

Baranka Girardi

malik, pock, etc are traded/released/sign elsewhere.
You forgot Ward.

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02-08-2007, 12:09 PM
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Once in blue moon even Delapina says accurate things... I agree there will not be any big fire sell. Not because of UFAs next summer, but because any sell off makes Dolan to lose money. .
Playoff money to Dolan means nothing. He has so much money he doesn't have a clue what to do with it.

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02-08-2007, 12:22 PM
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With 19 games to go...

after the trade deadline, and 9 to go to get there, things would have to be pretty bleak for them to be sellers. Things would have to improve for them to be buyers, however. The Rangers should be able to get at least 1/2 of the point in the next 9 and stay with the pack, or stray a bit, by the deadline, but not to the point of firesale. The scary part is this team may only need one decent defenseman and one decent second line center to be very competitive, assuming Jagr can turn into Jagr and Henke continues his play and doesn't get worn down.

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02-08-2007, 12:24 PM
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Playoff money to Dolan means nothing. He has so much money he doesn't have a clue what to do with it.
It is not only playoff revenues. NY is the place where people come to see STAR PERFORMERS. Fans do not mind to let young players on MSG ice, but only if they show the signs of dominance. If they are work in progress they want to rid of them right away. Therefore any rebuild in NY is doomed. People will not come to see no name players. That is where Dolan may loose money. That is why 2004 will not reoccur any time soon.

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02-08-2007, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
after the trade deadline, and 9 to go to get there, things would have to be pretty bleak for them to be sellers. Things would have to improve for them to be buyers, however. The Rangers should be able to get at least 1/2 of the point in the next 9 and stay with the pack, or stray a bit, by the deadline, but not to the point of firesale. The scary part is this team may only need one decent defenseman and one decent second line center to be very competitive, assuming Jagr can turn into Jagr and Henke continues his play and doesn't get worn down.
Correct. A few players may change the entire team (or not). I continue disagree on defense, though. It is ok as long as Lundqvist is on top of his game.

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02-08-2007, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Let me ask you guys something.

This team missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons up until last year. In the offseason Shanahan took less money to come to New York, and the Rangers were able to sign 2 pretty respectable players from a Stanley Cup Winning team in Cullen and Ward, plus Rachunek came back and so did Straka, not to mention the fact that the team was no longer the laughing stock of the league as they finally earned some respect and attention. These players wanted to play for this team.

If you are the management of the Rangers and you want to lure some big free agents to come here over the summer (like everyone is talking about - a defensman and a real top center), you have to spike their interest in the team. How is missing the playoffs going to help that? You cant dangle a huge contract in front of them either cause thats the old way of the rangers and the its not smart cap work. The difference is very big. Players outside the team don't follow this team like we do, All they see are standings, the difference of them seeing the Rangers in 12th or 8th the year before could alter their decision in coming or not. Even though, in reality, the team has huge holes and are inconsistent as hell.

SO do you really expect the Rangers not to make a legitamate push for the playoffs and become sellers?

Going back to square one isnt going to help this team right now.

Now of course they dont want to sell the farm off to get a rental, but if they can make and upgrade that can help in the shortrun and hopefully spur this team into the playoffs you can beat your ass they are gonna make it, even if its considered by some to be too late.

Even if its blatantly evident that this team is not a playoff squad, the Rangers will want to retain some of what was accomplished last season. Hey if the Rangers find a way to make the playoffs and win just 1 game....1 GAME... it will be considered an improvement from last year.

Dellapina opened my eyes to this. Even though i am just as frustrated as everyone else in thinking that should become sellers, this is probably whats gonna happen IMO too.


Exactly!!


donutboy, why waste your time writing these obsurd coments. There is no firesale!! We already had one back in 04. This team just needs adjustments.

Betts was just signed to an extension
Hossa is a good 3rd/4th line player, so is Hollweg, who is one of few who actually hits people

What do except from these guys? Whos a better 4th line center than Betts?,so what if he's a bust as a 2nd round pick. He actually plays his role well. You want to talk about a true bust talk about half our ECHL team, theres even some 1st's on that roster.

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