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Andrew MacDonald upgrade or not?

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02-10-2014, 10:11 AM
  #1
DecadesofFutility
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Andrew MacDonald upgrade or not?

Would Andrew MacDonald be an upgrade to the Flyers defense?
What is your opinion on his value if they acquired him?
He seems available for picks if the Flyers were interested.

I like his skating ability over that of Schenn or Grossman for sure.
He seems to get alot of criticism like Carle did when he played for the Flyers.
Isles posters seem to hate him and wish him gone, should that influence the Flyers?

He would only be useful if he were to replace either Schenn or Grossman in the top #4 since,
he turned down 4 million extension from the Isles.
He is looking for a big payday he needs to earn it as a top 4 defenseman, otherwise
adding him would be a waste of cap.

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02-10-2014, 10:15 AM
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Beef Invictus
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I'm tired of patching the D with FA overpayments; your initial post isn't exactly a ringing endorsement either.

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02-10-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm tired of patching the D with FA overpayments; your initial post isn't exactly a ringing endorsement either.
Unfortunately we may have no choice but to go the FA route this summer with what's returning for next year.

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02-10-2014, 10:17 AM
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JDinkalage Morgoone
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For what he's likely gonna cost I wanna stay away.

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02-10-2014, 10:22 AM
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Curufinwe
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I would take him at three years at $4m to replace a traded Grossmann. Not at the five years at $5m that he wants.

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02-10-2014, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I would take him at three years at $4m to replace a traded Grossmann. Not at the five years at $5m that he wants.
This

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02-10-2014, 10:36 AM
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Meh, I would be interested if the pricetag (trade or sign) was low, but a lot of teams are going to be in on him, meaning it is going to take a lot to get him. Pass.

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02-10-2014, 10:37 AM
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tymed
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not a guy we should be thinking about in that salary range.

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02-10-2014, 12:09 PM
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probably will have to say pass.
really not looking forward to what Holmgren may do this summer if Timonen hangs em up.

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02-10-2014, 03:38 PM
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BackWithaVengeance
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We should trade for a signed top-4 defender on an underachieving team like Ehrhoff from the Sabres or Campbell from the Panthers.

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02-10-2014, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackWithaVengeance View Post
We should trade for a signed top-4 defender on an underachieving team like Ehrhoff from the Sabres or Campbell from the Panthers.
I think, at least in Ehrhoff's case, you're going to have to give up some value to get him.

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02-10-2014, 04:03 PM
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The Flyers should go for the cheaper guys like Hainsey and Gilbert. The young defensemen will start coming in a year or so, so no need for long term overpriced contracts for 2nd pair at best quality defensemen.

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02-10-2014, 04:05 PM
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BackWithaVengeance
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Originally Posted by Funf View Post
I think, at least in Ehrhoff's case, you're going to have to give up some value to get him.
For sure but what you get will be more useful in terms of skill, cap-hit and signed years.

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02-10-2014, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
I would take him at three years at $4m to replace a traded Grossmann. Not at the five years at $5m that he wants.
Why would the Flyers trade Grossmann? He's been pretty solid this year thus far other than a few hiccups. What do you want from a Defensive Dman? There's other guys on the blueline I would get rid of before Grossmann.

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02-10-2014, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BackWithaVengeance View Post
We should trade for a signed top-4 defender on an underachieving team like Ehrhoff from the Sabres or Campbell from the Panthers.
Ehrhoff is signed for 4 mil cap hit until 2021. Campbell is still on that awful contract from Hawks, cap hit over 7 mil for two more years after this.

As the poster above said, Ehrhoff would likely cost too much in a trade. I'd stay away from Campbell at all costs considering his contract.

Andrew MacDonald does absolutely nothing for me. I think he's worse than Carle and wants a similar contract to what we refused to give Carle. No thanks.

For once, the Flyers need to be patient with what they have. I know everyone wants to win now, but you need to realize, this team is not in a position to win now. Let guys like Luke and Gus grow together. We'll be able to shed Kimmo's and Mesz's contracts next year leaving us with:

Streit-Coburn
Schenn-Gus
Grossmann - Hopefully one of D prospects filling this spot

I'm okay with this D group provided one of our prospects can fill that role. And then maybe get veteran 7th guy (better than Hal Gill). Here are the projected UFA D group for next year:

Name Age Team GP G A P PIM +/- TOI-TOT
MacDonald, Andrew 27 NYI 60 4 20 24 34 -16 25.55
Markov, Andrei 35 MTL 59 5 26 31 26 7 25.08
Girardi, Dan 29 NYR 59 4 13 17 14 2 22.67
Zidlicky, Marek 37 NJD 58 8 21 29 48 2 21.62
Boyle, Dan 37 SJS 52 8 14 22 20 -8 21.38
Orpik, Brooks 33 PIT 50 1 11 12 42 4 21.22
Hainsey, Ron 32 CAR 57 4 8 12 14 -10 21.18
Gilbert, Tom 31 FLA 58 3 22 25 18 -5 21.16
Timonen, Kimmo 38 PHI 57 2 17 19 28 0 20.68
Quincey, Kyle 28 DET 58 3 6 9 66 -8 20.56
Mitchell, Willie 36 LAK 54 1 4 5 50 5 20.54
Niskanen, Matt 27 PIT 58 7 27 34 41 29 20.43
Benoit, Andre 30 COL 57 2 18 20 14 -2 20.36
Morris, Derek 35 PHX 45 5 12 17 35 8 20.13
Butler, Chris 27 CGY 58 2 8 10 29 -16 19.98
Robidas, Stephane 36 DAL 24 4 1 5 12 7 19.92
Phillips, Chris 35 OTT 49 1 12 13 20 -6 19.88
Stralman, Anton 27 NYR 58 1 6 7 18 3 19.68
Sulzer, Alexander 29 BUF 19 0 2 2 6 -2 19.21
Diaz, Raphael 28 VAN 49 1 12 13 12 -6 19.13
Tallinder, Henrik 35 BUF 44 2 5 7 24 -15 19.13
Weaver, Mike 35 FLA 53 0 6 6 23 -12 18.79
Salo, Sami 39 TBL 49 1 9 10 10 9 18.62
Ranger, Paul 29 TOR 38 2 7 9 28 -7 18.50
Fayne, Mark 26 NJD 49 2 3 5 20 -1 18.14
Sarich, Cory 35 COL 42 1 8 9 34 2 17.95
Hannan, Scott 35 SJS 38 3 9 12 37 5 17.81
Stuart, Mark 29 WPG 47 2 6 8 72 6 17.77
Belov, Anton 27 EDM 47 1 5 6 32 -11 17.64
Corvo, Joe 36 OTT 25 3 7 10 10 -7 17.52
Hunwick, Matt 28 COL 1 0 0 0 0 0 17.45
Nikitin, Nikita 27 CLB 51 2 12 14 18 6 17.20
Meszaros, Andrej 28 PHI 35 4 12 16 34 3 17.17
Bouillon, Francis 38 MTL 38 0 4 4 15 -9 17.09
Schultz, Nick 31 EDM 57 0 4 4 24 -11 16.94
Fortunus, Maxime 30 DAL 1 0 1 1 0 1 16.28
Gilroy, Matt 29 FLA 16 1 1 2 6 -2 16.25
Whitney, Ryan 30 FLA 6 0 0 0 4 -7 16.11
Greene, Matt 30 LAK 31 2 3 5 41 4 15.77
Klesla, Rostislav 31 PHX 25 1 3 4 24 -3 15.51
Martinek, Radek 37 NYI 13 0 3 3 4 4 15.48
Strachan, Tyson 29 WAS 12 0 1 1 24 -5 15.34
Brouillette, J. 27 WAS 2 1 1 2 0 4 15.30
Prosser, Nate 27 MIN 33 2 4 6 35 2 15.18
Yonkman, Nolan 32 ANA 2 0 1 1 0 -1 14.89
Fraser, Mark 27 EDM 23 0 1 1 35 -10 14.70
Colaiacovo, Carlo 31 STL 10 0 2 2 8 1 14.68
Kostka, Mike 28 CHI 9 2 1 3 8 3 14.44
Murray, Douglas 33 MTL 38 0 2 2 9 -11 14.08
Potter, Corey 30 EDM 16 0 5 5 21 0 13.78
Grebeshkov, Denis 30 EDM 7 0 1 1 2 0 13.69
Pardy, Adam 29 WPG 38 0 5 5 28 4 13.66
Stoner, Clayton 28 MIN 52 0 4 4 69 -6 13.49
Taormina, Matt 27 TBL 7 0 0 0 0 0 13.40
Mottau, Mike 35 FLA 7 0 0 0 4 -2 13.20
Gill, Hal 38 PHI 4 0 0 0 2 -2 13.17
Engelland, Deryk 31 PIT 43 4 5 9 50 -4 12.57
Fedun, Taylor 25 EDM 4 2 0 2 0 -1 12.21
Grant, Alex 25 ANA 2 2 0 2 2 3 12.18
Piskula, Joe 29 NAS 2 0 0 0 0 1 12.18
Komisarek, Mike 32 CAR 21 0 2 2 8 -2 12.14
Brookbank, S. 33 CHI 32 1 3 4 33 4 12.04
Redmond, Zach 25 WPG 3 0 0 0 0 -2 11.91
Smith, Derek 29 CGY 14 0 1 1 2 -10 9.53
Breen, C. 24 CGY 6 0 0 0 5 -3 7.94
Alberts, Andrew 32 VAN 10 0 0 0 0 1 7.39

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Old
02-10-2014, 04:55 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
Why would the Flyers trade Grossmann? He's been pretty solid this year thus far other than a few hiccups. What do you want from a Defensive Dman? There's other guys on the blueline I would get rid of before Grossmann.
More mobility and better puck skills, and less penalties. This is why MacDonald would be an upgrade on Grossmann.

Having LSchenn and Grossmann is redundant in the modern NHL, and Grosmann is already on the decline.

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Old
02-10-2014, 05:02 PM
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DecadesofFutility
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
More mobility and puck skills. Having LSchenn and Grossmann is redundant in the modern NHL, and Grosmann is already on the decline.
In addition since Grossman is paired with Streit, if he had more speed it would be useful if only to cover for Streit.
Grossman and Schenn are both slower, defense only defensemen, that limits their
usefulness in today's NHL.

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02-10-2014, 06:34 PM
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I think you need to have two good stay at home dmen in this league that have the ability to move the puck effectively. If you look at the past cup winners, they've had at least two of these types of dmen on their corp. Hawks had Hjalmarsson, Roszival, and Seabrook, Kings had Mitchell, Scuderi, Matt Green, even Voynov, Bruins had Boychuk and McQuaid, and then Chara to an extent.

Coburn -> Effective two way defender who can skate, move the puck, defend top offensive threats in the league, etc
Streit -> Offensive dman, PP quaterback
Schenn -> Physical stay at home dman, who isn't awful at skating and can move the puck effectively on most nights
Grossmann ->Same as Schenn, but a bit slower and a more effective shot blocker
Gus -> Positional two way defender, solid puck mover, and can play the point on the PP

Honestly, this isn't a bad group of defenders going forward. They are missing one more exceptional two way type of guy, who could also be a PP specialist. This is Kimmo's role, and it'll be hard to fill it. Streit probably can't do all the things Kimmo does unfortunately.

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02-10-2014, 07:46 PM
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Just another Paul Martin, Jason Garrison, Zbynek Michalek, Dan Hamhuis, etc.


Pass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
I think you need to have two good stay at home dmen in this league that have the ability to move the puck effectively. If you look at the past cup winners, they've had at least two of these types of dmen on their corp. Hawks had Hjalmarsson, Roszival, and Seabrook, Kings had Mitchell, Scuderi, Matt Green, even Voynov, Bruins had Boychuk and McQuaid, and then Chara to an extent.

Coburn -> Effective two way defender who can skate, move the puck, defend top offensive threats in the league, etc
Streit -> Offensive dman, PP quaterback
Schenn -> Physical stay at home dman, who isn't awful at skating and can move the puck effectively on most nights
Grossmann ->Same as Schenn, but a bit slower and a more effective shot blocker
Gus -> Positional two way defender, solid puck mover, and can play the point on the PP

Honestly, this isn't a bad group of defenders going forward. They are missing one more exceptional two way type of guy, who could also be a PP specialist. This is Kimmo's role, and it'll be hard to fill it. Streit probably can't do all the things Kimmo does unfortunately.
Is Grossmann really a more effective shot blocker than Luke, or does he get more practice because his breakout pass is a blind volley through the neutral zone?

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02-10-2014, 08:30 PM
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Yeah, I think he's an upgrade for any middling ECHL team.

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02-10-2014, 08:36 PM
  #21
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No.

Not at all.

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02-10-2014, 09:08 PM
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FlyersFan61290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Just another Paul Martin, Jason Garrison, Zbynek Michalek, Dan Hamhuis, etc.


Pass.

Is Grossmann really a more effective shot blocker than Luke, or does he get more practice because his breakout pass is a blind volley through the neutral zone?
And more ice time...

That UFA list is pretty bleak outside of a few. I'll tell you, one guy that intrigues me is Andrew Alberts. I'm just a little upset I didn't see Randy Jones on there.

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02-10-2014, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clown Baby View Post
Is Grossmann really a more effective shot blocker than Luke, or does he get more practice because his breakout pass is a blind volley through the neutral zone?
True that Grossmann has more giveaways than Luke (32-19), but he has SIGNIFICANTLY more blocked shots than anyone on the team (142 to Luke's 79). The guy is fourth in the league in blocked shots.

And to my surprise, the purpose for this thread, Andrew MacDonald is well in first with 192 blocked shots. I still don't want him if he wants more than what Meszaros made, and I'm sure some other team will give that to him. Someone will give him Carle money and term.

All that being said, I like Grossmann as a third pairing guy on this team. Put him with one of our young puck moving d-prospects next year and I'd be fine with it.

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02-10-2014, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
And more ice time...

That UFA list is pretty bleak outside of a few. I'll tell you, one guy that intrigues me is Andrew Alberts. I'm just a little upset I didn't see Randy Jones on there.
I sincerely hope you forgot your sarcasm smiley on Alberts.

There's really no one on that FA list that appeals to me at this time, considering what our needs are on the back end, maybe besides Niskanen.

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02-10-2014, 09:37 PM
  #25
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I wonder what kind of contracts Nikitin and Stralman will get this summer? I wouldn't mind signing one of them especially if Grossmann is traded

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