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Look at past drafts, what pick do you question the most?

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Old
02-07-2014, 02:53 PM
  #126
RaiderDoug
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Minnesota's relevance is derived entirely from their ability to poach a player Nashville developed. The Thrashers franchise is relevant because it was backstabbed and taken away.

I really think you're overstating things here maybe just a teensy tiny bit.

Minnesota as a WCF finals appearance. They at least have division title. Not to mention they apparently are now a destination franchise for players and have a pretty bright future.

Yeah, Atlanta/Peg has a terrible history, so maybe we're the 3rd most irrelevant franchise, not the 2nd. So you're right, I did overstate it a teensy tiny bit.


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Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
Come on, don't forget Florida and Atlanta/Winnipeg. Give us some credit. We're probably the 4th most irrelevant............

Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa and Minnesota have also spent a lot of time cranking up the suck knob since we've been around too.

Speaking of irrelevant, I was really hoping we'd get moved to the Eastern Conference. I honestly believe if we'd spent our whole existence out there we'd have made the Finals at least once if not multiple times. Carolina and Tampa Bay have won Cups and they are far more inconsistent throughout the last 10 years than we've been. I think our reputation as a franchise would be a lot different if we had been an eastern team. Just a theory.

Both Edmonton, Calgary are a couple of game 7 puck bounces from hoisting the cup. Ottawa has a cup finals appearance. Yeah, they've had some rough stretches, but they've also reached heights we've never even sniffed.

I think we, as a franchise and fan base - have to aim a little bit higher than the "Well, at least we're not Columbus or Atlanta" standard. That's a pretty low bar.

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02-07-2014, 04:17 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Minnesota as a WCF finals appearance. They at least have division title. Not to mention they apparently are now a destination franchise for players and have a pretty bright future.

Yeah, Atlanta/Peg has a terrible history, so maybe we're the 3rd most irrelevant franchise, not the 2nd. So you're right, I did overstate it a teensy tiny bit.





Both Edmonton, Calgary are a couple of game 7 puck bounces from hoisting the cup. Ottawa has a cup finals appearance. Yeah, they've had some rough stretches, but they've also reached heights we've never even sniffed.

I think we, as a franchise and fan base - have to aim a little bit higher than the "Well, at least we're not Columbus or Atlanta" standard. That's a pretty low bar.
Probably in the minority, but I'd rather root for a team that at least gets into the playoffs every season (not that that's all THAT difficult) over those that have had one or two great seasons followed by a decade of being garbage. It sucks not to reach the heights of some other franchises, but I'll gladly accept not having to take some of the lows they've been through. Call me a lightweight fan, or whatever, not that I think my perspective or expectations as a fan makes a difference to how any organization is run anyway.

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02-07-2014, 04:27 PM
  #128
RaiderDoug
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Probably in the minority, but I'd rather root for a team that at least gets into the playoffs every season (not that that's all THAT difficult) over those that have had one or two great seasons followed by a decade of being garbage. It sucks not to reach the heights of some other franchises, but I'll gladly accept not having to take some of the lows they've been through. Call me a lightweight fan, or whatever, not that I think my perspective or expectations as a fan makes a difference to how any organization is run anyway.
To each his own. Personally, I'd take a couple of lean years if it meant that we had a couple of years where we are kings of the mountain and raised a banner or two.

I do agree that none of this makes a difference in how the franchise is run.

That said, I think you can sell tickets with a bad team by selling hope. I think it's going to be harder and harder to maintain our growth as a fan base when the team is just "blah" year after year after year.

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02-07-2014, 04:54 PM
  #129
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I'd also like to at least be in the hunt every year. When you get in, anything can happen. With all due respect, if we won a Cup three years ago (random number) and were the same team we've been the last two seasons, that Cup will even further solidify fans' frustrations. "Oh! We went from a Cup to THIS??!? Fire everyone!!" That Cup will be forgotten once time passes a little. Plus, there's nothing worse than a dud season. If you can get in, anything's possible.

2003: Anaheim - Made the Finals, 7 seed
2004: Calgary - Made the Finals, 6 seed
2006: Edmonton - Made the finals, 8 seed
2012: LA - Won the Cup, 8 seed
2012: New Jersey - Made the finals, 6 seed

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02-07-2014, 04:55 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Minnesota as a WCF finals appearance. They at least have division title. Not to mention they apparently are now a destination franchise for players and have a pretty bright future.

Yeah, Atlanta/Peg has a terrible history, so maybe we're the 3rd most irrelevant franchise, not the 2nd. So you're right, I did overstate it a teensy tiny bit.





Both Edmonton, Calgary are a couple of game 7 puck bounces from hoisting the cup. Ottawa has a cup finals appearance. Yeah, they've had some rough stretches, but they've also reached heights we've never even sniffed.

I think we, as a franchise and fan base - have to aim a little bit higher than the "Well, at least we're not Columbus or Atlanta" standard. That's a pretty low bar.
Calgary's final appearance in 03-04 is their only time past the first round since Terry Crisp coached them to a Cup. That's 12 missed playoffs, 10 first round exits, 1 Finals loss starting in 1989-90.

Edmonton's only time past the first round since 1998-99 was their Finals appearance. That's 9 missed playoffs, 4 first round exits, 1 Finals loss for the Oilers since the Preds entered the league. They've missed the playoffs in 13 of the past 20 seasons in spite of their early draft position (Arnott, Smyth, Hemsky, Cogliano, Gagner, Eberle, Paajarvi-Svensson, Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Yakupov are just some of their first round picks in that span).

Minnesota has a conference finals appearance ... and keeping with the theme, it is their only time past the first round. For the Wild it's 8 missed playoffs, 3 one and dones, and a third round loss in their history.

Ottawa is the only team you mentioned with any sort of consistently good play. One Finals loss, a 3rd round loss, several 2nd round losses, and made the post season in the majority of their seasons.

We'd all love to see the team go on a decades long run of fairly consistent deep playoffs. I doubt the fanbase could tolerate a Flames, Oilers, or even Wild type scenario with one deep post season accompanied by a decade (or more) of failure.

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02-07-2014, 05:00 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Drake744 View Post
I'd also like to at least be in the hunt every year. When you get in, anything can happen. With all due respect, if we won a Cup three years ago (random number) and were the same team we've been the last two seasons, that Cup will even further solidify fans' frustrations. "Oh! We went from a Cup to THIS??!? Fire everyone!!" That Cup will be forgotten once time passes a little. Plus, there's nothing worse than a dud season. If you can get in, anything's possible.

2003: Anaheim - Made the Finals, 7 seed
2004: Calgary - Made the Finals, 6 seed
2006: Edmonton - Made the finals, 8 seed
2012: LA - Won the Cup, 8 seed
2012: New Jersey - Made the finals, 6 seed
It was nice to see the Kings win it finally in 2012, but I can't say that it had much more of an effect than that. It didn't mitigate the better part of the sucktastic decade that had come before it. Granted, I was more Preds fan than Kings fan at that point, but you don't follow a team for 25 years and detach yourself THAT much from it.

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02-07-2014, 05:11 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
To each his own. Personally, I'd take a couple of lean years if it meant that we had a couple of years where we are kings of the mountain and raised a banner or two.
Rarely is it only a couple of years.

I've already detailed Edmonton, Calgary, and Minnesota. Chicago missed the playoffs for nine out of ten seasons with a one and done in the middle of that run before getting back into the post season and building a series of good seasons. Detroit made the Finals in 1966, then missed 16 of the next 20 post seasons ... then took another ten years to win a Cup after consistently making the playoffs starting in the late 80s. That's a 30 year span. Pittsburgh had four second round appearances, nothing deeper, in their first 23 seasons before winning a Cup.

Then there are the Rangers.

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02-07-2014, 05:23 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Rarely is it only a couple of years.

I've already detailed Edmonton, Calgary, and Minnesota. Chicago missed the playoffs for nine out of ten seasons with a one and done in the middle of that run before getting back into the post season and building a series of good seasons. Detroit made the Finals in 1966, then missed 16 of the next 20 post seasons ... then took another ten years to win a Cup after consistently making the playoffs starting in the late 80s. That's a 30 year span. Pittsburgh had four second round appearances, nothing deeper, in their first 23 seasons before winning a Cup.

Then there are the Rangers.
Personally, I'd love to go 20 years between Cups. At least we'd have 2 banners hanging from the rafters.

You guys are clinging to this team like it's some great team that just catches bad breaks.

It's not. The roster is poorly built. The system we play isn't a cup winning system.

It's a mediocre team built to eek into the playoffs and get blown out in round 1. This is the same old story we've seen every single year since the lockout.

You guys are so afraid of becoming Edmonton or Columbus that you don't even notice that we're barely better than they are. And to be honest, I think both of them are closer to being seriously competitive than we are.

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02-07-2014, 06:03 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by RaiderDoug View Post
Personally, I'd love to go 20 years between Cups. At least we'd have 2 banners hanging from the rafters.

You guys are clinging to this team like it's some great team that just catches bad breaks.

It's not. The roster is poorly built. The system we play isn't a cup winning system.

It's a mediocre team built to eek into the playoffs and get blown out in round 1. This is the same old story we've seen every single year since the lockout.

You guys are so afraid of becoming Edmonton or Columbus that you don't even notice that we're barely better than they are. And to be honest, I think both of them are closer to being seriously competitive than we are.

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02-07-2014, 09:24 PM
  #135
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Ill get flamed for being an apologist, or a stupid sheep who is happy with mediocrity, but the truth is this teams development has not been the same as other similar teams.

we emerged from expansion appropriately and in a reasonable time from… then just when we were becoming a consistently top tier team, Leipold pulls the rug out from under us and we have to start again… but instead of sucking like Edmonton for five years and reaping the high draft picks, this team managed to keep on making the playoffs and two years ago was positioned to be a top tier team again, only to have the russians all go stupid and gut our forward core…. and then injuries have taken their toll these last two years… and yet here we are three points out of the playoffs.

Am I happy? no. But am I in despair or ready to fire everyone?? Of course not.

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02-07-2014, 10:10 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Ill get flamed for being an apologist, or a stupid sheep who is happy with mediocrity, but the truth is this teams development has not been the same as other similar teams.

we emerged from expansion appropriately and in a reasonable time from… then just when we were becoming a consistently top tier team, Leipold pulls the rug out from under us and we have to start again… but instead of sucking like Edmonton for five years and reaping the high draft picks, this team managed to keep on making the playoffs and two years ago was positioned to be a top tier team again, only to have the russians all go stupid and gut our forward core…. and then injuries have taken their toll these last two years… and yet here we are three points out of the playoffs.

Am I happy? no. But am I in despair or ready to fire everyone?? Of course not.
I want to say that, since the lockout, the Preds had been within the top 10 teams in points accrued (something like 8th?), but the last two seasons have definitely helped spoil that. So not necessarily mediocre by all the normal measures during that stretch, IIRC.

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02-08-2014, 01:53 PM
  #137
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was positioned to be a top tier team again, only to have the russians all go stupid and gut our forward core.
Blaming our collapse on "The Russians" is not very well thought out.

Also we were not a top-tier team, we had no first line forward unless you count Radulov playing Poile for a couple of months, yet again.

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Am I happy? no. But am I in despair or ready to fire everyone?? Of course not. .
So we go from a team on the cusp of being a elite, to a lottery team. We have a GM who hasn't been able to find or hold offensive talent for the most of his 30+ year career. He's had virtually no playoff success. What do you want to do-- just continue as we always have and get what we've always gotten?

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02-08-2014, 03:44 PM
  #138
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Blaming our collapse on "The Russians" is not very well thought out.

Also we were not a top-tier team, we had no first line forward unless you count Radulov playing Poile for a couple of months, yet again.


So we go from a team on the cusp of being a elite, to a lottery team. We have a GM who hasn't been able to find or hold offensive talent for the most of his 30+ year career. He's had virtually no playoff success. What do you want to do-- just continue as we always have and get what we've always gotten?
While I'm all for letting Poile go your disrespect for him is a bit off. People in certain circles wanted him as the GM of team USA so he must know something.

I'm in agreement his drafting history of forwards has been abysmal but how many guys have drafted Scott Stevens, Weber and Suter? Three hall of fame caliber defensemen. It doesn't excuse his shortcomings at drafting forwards but it's not like he hasn't picked a few pretty darn good players over the years.

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02-08-2014, 04:02 PM
  #139
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I also don't know exactly how the system works, but I'm wondering how much his bad luck with forwards has to do with scouting. I mean the guy can't watch every forward in the world so I'm guessing he depends on them, especially overseas.

Granted given the number of years he has been doing it you would think he would hit something. Still part of me wonders if we don't have a group over all that just has a better eye for goalies and defensemen * shrug*

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02-08-2014, 06:16 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Blaming our collapse on "The Russians" is not very well thought out.

Also we were not a top-tier team, we had no first line forward unless you count Radulov playing Poile for a couple of months, yet again.
yes, we were a top tier team. you won't acknowledge it until we win a cup so your opinion is invalid.

if Kostitsyn and Radulov had both returned last year we would have been in good shape, at least until the injuries hit.

So we go from a team on the cusp of being a elite, to a lottery team. We have a GM who hasn't been able to find or hold offensive talent for the most of his 30+ year career. He's had virtually no playoff success. What do you want to do-- just continue as we always have and get what we've always gotten?[/QUOTE]

we were not a lottery team until all the injuries made us play an AHL roster for the last 15 games of a 48 game season. just like everyone is acting like this years team is some horrid basement dweller, last years team wasn't a huge step back.

Bottom line is, to have playoff success, you have to make the playoffs. Ill take a team that makes the playoffs on average 4 out of every 5 years and take my chances that sometime we will get the breaks going our way. Hasn't happened yet but there are a lot of teams who don't ever get the chance because they suck for so long.

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02-08-2014, 09:28 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
yes, we were a top tier team. you won't acknowledge it until we win a cup so your opinion is invalid.
Next time anyone is doubt, please look to Predv82 to see if you opinion is valid Also look to him to put words on your mouth.

In my opinion, I don't think winning one playoff game in the 2nd rd is a top tier team. If you think any team who makes the 2nd rd is an elite team, that's your opinion but I won't say it's invalid.

We have never made it to conference finals. That is the top 15% of league (4 in 30 teams). In my opinion, that would be a top tier team.


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02-08-2014, 09:33 PM
  #142
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While I'm all for letting Poile go your disrespect for him is a bit off. People in certain circles wanted him as the GM of team USA so he must know something.

I'm in agreement his drafting history of forwards has been abysmal but how many guys have drafted Scott Stevens, Weber and Suter? Three hall of fame caliber defensemen. It doesn't excuse his shortcomings at drafting forwards but it's not like he hasn't picked a few pretty darn good players over the years.
I would hope he's picked a couple of good players in 30+ years of trying.

Poile a good guy and I've had dealings with him on several occasions.

But the guy doesn't know how to build elite teams, plain and simple. It's why he was fired in Washington and why he should be fired here.

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02-08-2014, 10:47 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I would hope he's picked a couple of good players in 30+ years of trying.

Poile a good guy and I've had dealings with him on several occasions.

But the guy doesn't know how to build elite teams, plain and simple. It's why he was fired in Washington and why he should be fired here.
And he has, that's not the problem. He hasn't found elite talent or honestly even great talent up front. Bondra in Washington was the best he did. Defense and goalie he can find, forwards, not so much.

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02-10-2014, 11:31 AM
  #144
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I also don't know exactly how the system works, but I'm wondering how much his bad luck with forwards has to do with scouting. I mean the guy can't watch every forward in the world so I'm guessing he depends on them, especially overseas.

Granted given the number of years he has been doing it you would think he would hit something. Still part of me wonders if we don't have a group over all that just has a better eye for goalies and defensemen * shrug*
I think he goes for the safe pick too much

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