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Expected fire sale date - Feb. 16th

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Old
02-08-2007, 12:46 PM
  #26
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i think you only need to make a few trades to free up roster spots so the kids can get some quality games in at the end of this season to get them ready for next. and so they know what to expect and what to work on over the summer.

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02-08-2007, 12:53 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mason530 View Post
How many have trade value? Nylander, Straka, Shanny, A Ward, Rachunek, Hall. Can they yield at least 3 1st, 4 2nd, 3 3rd and rid Kasper?
LOL ok!

Hall = Worth nothing.

A. Ward is not being traded.

Shanny is staying put.

We just re-signed Straka.. He aint going anywhere.

We are working on a deal with Nylander.

Rachunek? at 1.8 Mill.. I dunno. Might be traded but for a 1st? No way. Maybe a 3rd.

Nobody picked up Kaspar for free, so I doubt they will pick him up for a draft pick.

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02-08-2007, 12:55 PM
  #28
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94...

better defense + on-his-game Lundqvist > than what we have now.

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02-08-2007, 01:03 PM
  #29
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There is absolutly no need for a "fire sale". Is the team doing as well as many had hoped? Absolutly not, but they arent horrible either, IMO they have some excess lugage that will be leaving the team shortly and then they are in need of some tweaking here and there. To just scrap the team and start over is one of the worst idea's i've heard on these boards. The team is only a few points out of a playoff spot and a few streaks here and there could feesibly get them into a playoff spot. Will that happen who knows, but it definitly wont happen if they burn it down and try to rebuild. Not only would that be bad decision making on the part of the organization, but it will deter players from wanting to come here when if every few years things arent going as planned the team gets dismantled and players get shipped out.

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02-08-2007, 01:07 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Let me ask you guys something.

This team missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons up until last year. In the offseason Shanahan took less money to come to New York, and the Rangers were able to sign 2 pretty respectable players from a Stanley Cup Winning team in Cullen and Ward, plus Rachunek came back and so did Straka, not to mention the fact that the team was no longer the laughing stock of the league as they finally earned some respect and attention. These players wanted to play for this team.

If you are the management of the Rangers and you want to lure some big free agents to come here over the summer (like everyone is talking about - a defensman and a real top center), you have to spike their interest in the team. How is missing the playoffs going to help that? You cant dangle a huge contract in front of them either cause thats the old way of the rangers and the its not smart cap work. The difference is very big. Players outside the team don't follow this team like we do, All they see are standings, the difference of them seeing the Rangers in 12th or 8th the year before could alter their decision in coming or not. Even though, in reality, the team has huge holes and are inconsistent as hell.

SO do you really expect the Rangers not to make a legitamate push for the playoffs and become sellers?

Going back to square one isnt going to help this team right now.

Now of course they dont want to sell the farm off to get a rental, but if they can make and upgrade that can help in the shortrun and hopefully spur this team into the playoffs you can beat your ass they are gonna make it, even if its considered by some to be too late.

Even if its blatantly evident that this team is not a playoff squad, the Rangers will want to retain some of what was accomplished last season. Hey if the Rangers find a way to make the playoffs and win just 1 game....1 GAME... it will be considered an improvement from last year.

Dellapina opened my eyes to this. Even though i am just as frustrated as everyone else in thinking that should become sellers, this is probably whats gonna happen IMO too.
let me ask you this question...how well has building teams via free agency worked out in the past??

you are worried about attracting free agents, but going after all the big time UFAs is what got us into the mess in the first place...the rangers have proven over and over that it is a recipe for failure

so the REAL question is which do you think is more important? tricking ufas into thinking we are good so they will sign here and we can have all these great names on the roster of a non-playoff team or is it more important to build a team correctly so maybe the team can be a contender again in our lifetimes???

and guess what if you build the right way and the team is good the ufas will come here anyway.

and besides shanny how have all those signings worked out?? straka doesn't count cause he was here before so he wasn't attracted by the success of last year...ward, cullen, rachunek, hall (even though it was a trade) are guys that a large % of fans would trade away for a used jockstrap so it isn't like we attracted joe thornton and sidney crosby. we hugely overpaid for a couple medocre free agents.

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02-08-2007, 01:16 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by KingHenrik35 View Post
There is absolutly no need for a "fire sale". Is the team doing as well as many had hoped? Absolutly not, but they arent horrible either,
i don't know what team you are watching but this team IS horrible...

when your head coach's biggest lineup decision is whether blair betts or jason krog will center the 2nd line than your team sucks beyond anything words can describe.

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02-08-2007, 01:21 PM
  #32
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You can build a team...

by free agency...the Rangers basically did it last season. The thing is, you need to acquire the right players in the right roles and be coached properly. The Rangers acquired the wrong guys for the wrong roles and got burnt. Heck, I don't know if they did anything more than look at the stat sheets and make offers in some instances.

Most every successful team seemed to have a good deal of turnover to win a Cup or be successful in the playoffs. It does pay to start off with a good base (which the Rangers did going into this past offseason, and if this team stays in tact, will again have going into this offseason).

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02-08-2007, 01:25 PM
  #33
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Signing Nylander would be incredibly stupid. He's old. He lives off of Jagr. He takes a lot of stupid penalties. He's inconsistent. With so many FA's available each year, it would be stupid to sign this guy and not go shopping for a FA center who is better with all the cap room we'll have.

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02-08-2007, 01:32 PM
  #34
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I'm not a Nylander fan, but...

right now, this organization's center situation is thin. Dubinsky may or may not be ready next season, but my guess is if he's ready, he's not ready to step into second line center duties. If he was overly impressive each night, that would be one thing, but on most night's he's not impressive at all. He may even need another year. So do you go into next season with no top line centerman and no second line centerman? Or do you sign Nylander, for a reasonable price, and look for a top guy or a decent second guy in the offseason? If Nylander's signed for a Straka-like contract, then I'm fine, as that's what you'd get from a second line centerman, and the term (2 years) is not overly onerous. Anything more and I get worried because he becomes tougher to move if the situation warrants moving him.

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02-08-2007, 01:38 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
by free agency...the Rangers basically did it last season. The thing is, you need to acquire the right players in the right roles and be coached properly. The Rangers acquired the wrong guys for the wrong roles and got burnt. Heck, I don't know if they did anything more than look at the stat sheets and make offers in some instances.

Most every successful team seemed to have a good deal of turnover to win a Cup or be successful in the playoffs. It does pay to start off with a good base (which the Rangers did going into this past offseason, and if this team stays in tact, will again have going into this offseason).
the rangers got lucky last year. when a game plan works onces every 67 years, it doesn't become a good idea the year it works you just got lucky.

compare the way the rangers build a team vs the way the devils build a team and then look at their respective records over the last 10 years and then explain to me how will building thru free agency works

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02-08-2007, 01:45 PM
  #36
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I agree they got lucky...

but it supported my position .

I do disagree that UFAs don't work though. I do agree that the UFAs the Rangers acquired didn't work, and believe it's because the wrong guys were acquired, and the Rangers didn't have good coaching to put it together. Like acquiring Kamensky...to play with who - those teams didn't have Joe Sakic, and they didn't have a playmaker?

The Rangers seem to rarely look at a guy, determine what made him successful where he is, and then see how and if the guy fits in before acquiring. Like Holik...OK, he was successul going against top lines, played with a grinder and a skill guy, didn't kill penalties to stay fresh, and used his big body in front of the net to be effective on the PP. He comes to the Rangers...plays a top line, doesn't get complementary wingers, plays on the PK, and isn't used properly on the PP. It just seems to be the Rangers' M.O.

If you do your homework, you can acquired guys that will work out.

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02-08-2007, 01:47 PM
  #37
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You forgot Ward.
i didnt, i edited it, but the site had an error and it didnt save my edit.

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Old
02-08-2007, 01:51 PM
  #38
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Nyr......

just re-read your post...when I talk about UFAs, I'm not talking about signing 12 guys, I'm talking 2-4 UFAs. And heck, kids need someone to learn from, they need to gain confidence. You need to build your team properly. It does take a combination of guys brought up through the system (who as a rookie might as well be a free agent since he likely never played with the guys on the team), and guys brought in from the outside via trades and UFA pickups. You need 'em all.

That's probably the disconnect (that and me jumping into the conversation late).

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02-08-2007, 01:54 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
better defense + on-his-game Lundqvist > than what we have now.
Obviously. I just wouldn't spend resources in any form on it. Unlike forwards D is where we have got youth that is for real plus we have an excess of D vets.

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02-08-2007, 02:13 PM
  #40
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I actually think this team will sell off some luggage if they lose 3 of their next 4 games.
whos the luggage besides Krog, Hall, and Orr, everyone else matters.

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02-08-2007, 02:38 PM
  #41
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Playoff money to Dolan means nothing. He has so much money he doesn't have a clue what to do with it.
That is true....

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02-08-2007, 03:05 PM
  #42
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Playoff money means nothing to Dolan?

well, if it helps push the stock price up (and going deep in the playoffs can be the difference between making a quarter and missing), then he benefits; further, with L'il Jimmy, it's about pride, and he's gotta a lot of it.

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02-08-2007, 03:08 PM
  #43
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If playoff money means nothing to him why were there reports early on in the season saying if the Rangers make the PO's Ticket prices would go up?

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02-08-2007, 04:23 PM
  #44
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We play Tampa at home, Washington and Carolina on the road. I do not expect this team to win either of the road games. After they lose them, it should be clear even to the dolts running this organization that they aren't making the playoffs. Hopefully, it will also be clear that Renney is clueless and they will fire him immediately. Then maybe we can see the kids called called up. I'm truly stunned that Hossa and Betts still take the ice for this team. To me Betts is a bust as a second round pick. It's enough already. I see him offering nothing compared to players we have at Hartford. Hossa is just pathetic. Don't get me started on Hollweg. I've never seen a player accomplish less and get support from Rangers fans.
Please man. I can agree with some of these...but Hossa has really stepped it up of late...and by criticizing Hollweg you just show that you don't follow this team. Why? Because to understand Hollweg's value you need to be around the team, watching games often. Look at the way he hits, provides energy, and plays solid defense. Please.

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02-08-2007, 04:35 PM
  #45
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LOL ok!

Hall = Worth nothing.

A. Ward is not being traded.

Shanny is staying put.

We just re-signed Straka.. He aint going anywhere.

We are working on a deal with Nylander.

Rachunek? at 1.8 Mill.. I dunno. Might be traded but for a 1st? No way. Maybe a 3rd.

Nobody picked up Kaspar for free, so I doubt they will pick him up for a draft pick.
I was only looking for a 3rd for Rachunek. Nylander, forget about doing a deal with him, I say move him. Same for Staka. Shanny is mostly staying put but he has the most value. The roster is flaw and the most prospects are average NHLers, trading him is the best way to add quality to the system. As for Hall, didn't we get Ozo for a 3rd, same rule can apply here.

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02-08-2007, 05:11 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by KingHenrik35 View Post
If playoff money means nothing to him why were there reports early on in the season saying if the Rangers make the PO's Ticket prices would go up?
Because the people below Dolan, want to make the big bucks......

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02-08-2007, 09:03 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Let me ask you guys something.

This team missed the playoffs for 7 straight seasons up until last year. In the offseason Shanahan took less money to come to New York, and the Rangers were able to sign 2 pretty respectable players from a Stanley Cup Winning team in Cullen and Ward, plus Rachunek came back and so did Straka, not to mention the fact that the team was no longer the laughing stock of the league as they finally earned some respect and attention. These players wanted to play for this team.

If you are the management of the Rangers and you want to lure some big free agents to come here over the summer (like everyone is talking about - a defensman and a real top center), you have to spike their interest in the team. How is missing the playoffs going to help that? You cant dangle a huge contract in front of them either cause thats the old way of the rangers and the its not smart cap work. The difference is very big. Players outside the team don't follow this team like we do, All they see are standings, the difference of them seeing the Rangers in 12th or 8th the year before could alter their decision in coming or not. Even though, in reality, the team has huge holes and are inconsistent as hell.

SO do you really expect the Rangers not to make a legitamate push for the playoffs and become sellers?

Going back to square one isnt going to help this team right now.

Now of course they dont want to sell the farm off to get a rental, but if they can make and upgrade that can help in the shortrun and hopefully spur this team into the playoffs you can beat your ass they are gonna make it, even if its considered by some to be too late.

Even if its blatantly evident that this team is not a playoff squad, the Rangers will want to retain some of what was accomplished last season. Hey if the Rangers find a way to make the playoffs and win just 1 game....1 GAME... it will be considered an improvement from last year.

Dellapina opened my eyes to this. Even though i am just as frustrated as everyone else in thinking that should become sellers, this is probably whats gonna happen IMO too.
Dellapina made some very valid points, however, with a cap the turnaround time will be less. You see it in the NFL all the time. Even Dellapina admits that he expected a dog fight this year for the playoffs. Jagr has been hurt all year long. It is obvious that he is not 100%. Money will always talk, so also the lure of playing in NY.
If we sell and we trade a player like Nylander there are 2 players, both from Buffalo that I would love to have, Drury and Briere, in that order. Gomez will be out there as well. Nylander for $5M or a Gomez, Briere or Drury for a $1m more?

As UFAs hit the market there has to be teams that can afford them. Each year that passes you see more and more teams throwing old fashion big time contracts out. You can not have 4-6 players taking 40-50% of your cap. NYRs right now are sitting prety cap wise after this year and gets even better in the years following. Players will sign where the money is unless they take a cut to play for a specific team.

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Old
02-08-2007, 10:42 PM
  #48
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The future of Ryan Hollweg is a sensitive subject for some because of the hustle and hard hitting he provides. In my opinion there are three types of third/fourth line players.
In preference order...
1) Defensive-minded/capable of playing against teams top line/elite penalty killer (Think the Devils third line)
2) offensively gifted but does not have all-around game/coaches confidence to be on a scoring line. (Think Huselius, currently PRUCHA)
3) Player who is basically limited in scoring or defensive ability or both but provides a physical presence or maybe even "intangible" quality (Think RYAN HOLLWEG)

Im sorry but even guys like Barnaby and McCarthy did what Hollweg does and found their name on the scoresheet pretty frequently.

Ideally you want your bottom six forwards to form three penalty killing pairings and have your top six form 2 two power play units.

Cullen Ortmeyer Hossa Betts Avery Callahan(much better than hall)

Jagr Nylander Straka Shanahan Prucha ???
(I think Shanahan should be removed from the top unit because his game does not suit the other players, to no fault of his own)

***WE NEED A SECOND LINE CENTER BADLY***

We are not far off from having forward lines where people aren't out of place

Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-??????-Shanahan
Avery-Cullen-Ortmeyer
Callahan-Betts-Hossa

I can even understand switching Avery with Prucha because of the chemistry of the COP line and supposedly between shanny and avery

WE AINT OUT OF IT YET!!!

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Old
02-09-2007, 02:02 AM
  #49
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Why do people think Betts is a "shutdown center?" Betts at his best is an energy center/pk'er, a typical 4th liner, nothing else.

Shutdown players are guys like Peca, Draper, Lehtinen... guys who can win Selke trophies, not schlepps like Blair Betts, who forget their defensive assignments and get scored on more than they score goals.

I'm tired of the term "shutdown player" being thrown around, and given to the wrong kind of players. Blair Betts, Ryan Hollweg, Jed Ortmeyer, and Matt Cullen are not these kinds of players.

We'll all see a true shutdown center when Tommy Pyatt joins this team some day.

Sorry about that, back to the topic at hand...

A complete firesale won't happen. But at least if they stand pat and try to make the playoffs, that's fine. Giving up prospects and picks for rentals when this team just to make the playoffs is just as bad as Jim Rutherford trading Jack Johnson for that flaming pile of dog **** from LA, not for a chance to repeat, but just to stay afloat.

You just don't make those kinds of trades.

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Old
02-09-2007, 04:18 AM
  #50
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If playoff money meant anything to Dolan, he wouldn't keep incomptent GM's who's teams miss the playoffs year after year after year.

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