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Old
02-10-2014, 09:25 PM
  #276
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Originally Posted by oilers83 View Post
Offensively yes, overall no. I have a friend with some connections(not great) that was privy to some conversations, and he explained that the issues with Hall was simply turnovers. No one can argue Team Canada's point on that.
I can appreciate that.

I may not like Duchene's selfish game, but he doesn't give up the puck much.

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02-10-2014, 09:31 PM
  #277
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Just a thought, but if Gabriel Landeskog was Canadian he would be most likely be on this team.

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02-10-2014, 09:45 PM
  #278
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Just a thought, but if Gabriel Landeskog was Canadian he would be most likely be on this team.
If he played with Crosby he sure would be

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02-10-2014, 09:51 PM
  #279
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I am not Anti-Hall. That being said I think people around here tend to overrate him a bit. Yes he's got a great offensive game but there are still many small things in his game he needs to fix.

Shooting more, being more physical, drop/blind passes need to be cut out, and so forth.

For the Duchene comparison, Hall is less than a year younger than him. Hall has a better offensive game but Duchene has a better all-around game.

TC has some of the finest hockey minds in the game. Doesn't it raise a few flags that they picked Duchene, Carter, and Nash over him?

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02-10-2014, 10:00 PM
  #280
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I am not Anti-Hall. That being said I think people around here tend to overrate him a bit. Yes he's got a great offensive game but there are still many small things in his game he needs to fix.

Shooting more, being more physical, drop/blind passes need to be cut out, and so forth.

For the Duchene comparison, Hall is less than a year younger than him. Hall has a better offensive game but Duchene has a better all-around game.

TC has some of the finest hockey minds in the game. Doesn't it raise a few flags that they picked Duchene, Carter, and Nash over him?
If Team Canada were playing a season rather than a tournament, Hall would be on it. Since the tournament's are so short, however, you need to have a heavier emphasis on responsible play than you would otherwise.

I can appreciate Duchene being taken in that light as he's received better coaching and has better defensive habits than Hall, but he's bench fodder on that team. Carter makes sense from a systems-standpoint as a shooter who can complement playmakers. I don't think either of them will be able to change a game like Hall could, though.

Nash just scored eleven goals in fifteen games, has always brought it for Team Canada, and has great habits. Nash is more worthy to be on the team than the likes of Sharp, Benn, Marleau, and Kunitz let alone Duchene and Carter.

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02-10-2014, 10:03 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
I am not Anti-Hall. That being said I think people around here tend to overrate him a bit. Yes he's got a great offensive game but there are still many small things in his game he needs to fix.

Shooting more, being more physical, drop/blind passes need to be cut out, and so forth.

For the Duchene comparison, Hall is less than a year younger than him. Hall has a better offensive game but Duchene has a better all-around game.

TC has some of the finest hockey minds in the game. Doesn't it raise a few flags that they picked Duchene, Carter, and Nash over him?
He wasn't really in competition with Carter and Nash. They're RWers.

As for Duchene, it's for the reason you stated.

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02-10-2014, 10:10 PM
  #282
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I dunno about that, Tavares and Duchene are there instead of C Giroux and that smacks of potential more than recent play or experience.
You have to look at Crosby (2006), and Stamkos (2010) as recent examples. Tavares and Duchene have one more year than Hall, and it almost fills the quote for underage players, when you realize Duchene is a thirteen forward - who should probably be ahead of Nash and Carter to an extent.

No offense to St. Louis, but Giroux should have been chosen over him, or even Hall. To me its unfair Giroux is not on the team, Hall most could live with.

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02-10-2014, 10:37 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
I am not Anti-Hall. That being said I think people around here tend to overrate him a bit. Yes he's got a great offensive game but there are still many small things in his game he needs to fix.

Shooting more, being more physical, drop/blind passes need to be cut out, and so forth.

For the Duchene comparison, Hall is less than a year younger than him. Hall has a better offensive game but Duchene has a better all-around game.

TC has some of the finest hockey minds in the game. Doesn't it raise a few flags that they picked Duchene, Carter, and Nash over him?
TBH what raises flags for me is that Col seems to be doing a better job of developing their players than the Oilers have since the time when Sather was the coach.

If RNH, Gagner, Eberle, Hall and Yak were developing at the same rate as the Avs players were we'd be in a playoff spot right now.

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02-10-2014, 10:45 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by BlowbyBlow View Post
You have to look at Crosby (2006), and Stamkos (2010) as recent examples. Tavares and Duchene have one more year than Hall, and it almost fills the quote for underage players, when you realize Duchene is a thirteen forward - who should probably be ahead of Nash and Carter to an extent.

No offense to St. Louis, but Giroux should have been chosen over him, or even Hall. To me its unfair Giroux is not on the team, Hall most could live with.
Hall wasn't on my radar, but I have no doubt he will be on the next Oly team if they send nhl'ers there again.


I like Nash there from the p.o.v. that he is the kind of guy that can just force the puck into the net by sheer willpower alone. Him and Perry are extremely hard to stop around the net and that kind of goalscoring is hard to pass up.


I feel sorry for opposing coaches lol. If you were looking at defending against team canada you'd be looking at a crazy mix of size, speed and skill. I don't think it can be done.

The only thing in our way is that other teams know they are in the underdog role and that they all have to be 100% committed to team defense. Canada could end up being guilty of being a bit too fearless and focusing too much on offense.

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02-10-2014, 11:06 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Hall wasn't on my radar, but I have no doubt he will be on the next Oly team if they send nhl'ers there again.


I like Nash there from the p.o.v. that he is the kind of guy that can just force the puck into the net by sheer willpower alone. Him and Perry are extremely hard to stop around the net and that kind of goalscoring is hard to pass up.


I feel sorry for opposing coaches lol. If you were looking at defending against team canada you'd be looking at a crazy mix of size, speed and skill. I don't think it can be done.

The only thing in our way is that other teams know they are in the underdog role and that they all have to be 100% committed to team defense. Canada could end up being guilty of being a bit too fearless and focusing too much on offense.
I wanted to point also though that in years past with Brewer/Smyth it seemed like Lowe had more pull in getting in his own guys playing there. Is he not have any influence, and are Oiler players getting less respect around the league than they should.

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02-10-2014, 11:08 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by BlowbyBlow View Post
You have to look at Crosby (2006), and Stamkos (2010) as recent examples. Tavares and Duchene have one more year than Hall, and it almost fills the quote for underage players, when you realize Duchene is a thirteen forward - who should probably be ahead of Nash and Carter to an extent.

No offense to St. Louis, but Giroux should have been chosen over him, or even Hall. To me its unfair Giroux is not on the team, Hall most could live with.
Crosby is the reason why G was snubbed.

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Old
02-10-2014, 11:31 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by BlowbyBlow View Post
I wanted to point also though that in years past with Brewer/Smyth it seemed like Lowe had more pull in getting in his own guys playing there. Is he not have any influence, and are Oiler players getting less respect around the league than they should.
Smyth scored 39 goals back in the day, and he was dominant along the boards and great in front of the net. He was useful as a role player on a good team and there are always a few 1st line nhl'ers who make the national team in that capacity. I don't think anyone sees Hall as a role player, so he has to make the team as a top 6 fwd.

Are Oilers getting less respect than they should? I dunno, seems like most Oiler fans hate 1/2 the players on the roster so I don't know if anyone else can diss them as bad as we do.

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02-10-2014, 11:44 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by BleedingOil View Post
Crosby is the reason why G was snubbed.
I have zero problem with St. Louis getting picked over Giroux. This is Marty's last shot at this, he's got the experience and a winning pedigree and I don't think any player on Canada will be more motivated.

As for Giroux, he may have sealed his fate when he whined about Crosby hacking his wrists in the faceoff dot (which happens frequently - I think Kesler does it every game). No point in risking a potential locker-room rift if you don't need to. Guys need to fall in line and be team first. Maybe Giroux could've done that or maybe he and Sid just don't mix. In any event, Golden Goal always beats haven't-been-there-before.

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02-10-2014, 11:56 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Smyth scored 39 goals back in the day, and he was dominant along the boards and great in front of the net. He was useful as a role player on a good team and there are always a few 1st line nhl'ers who make the national team in that capacity. I don't think anyone sees Hall as a role player, so he has to make the team as a top 6 fwd.

Are Oilers getting less respect than they should? I dunno, seems like most Oiler fans hate 1/2 the players on the roster so I don't know if anyone else can diss them as bad as we do.
Speaking on behalf of Smyth those were the days where a guy like Draper, or Zamuner could make the team. Smyth and Brewer were picked solely on Lowe pulling for them Smyth scored 39 i think in his second season, he was always a 20-25 goal scorer. He did have the reputation from the Dallas playoffs to rise to the occasion.

Comparing him and Brewer to Hall or even Eberle is not comparable the latter 2 are at least team Canada noteworthy, with Hall being in the discussion. To me it seems like Oiler players get no respect at all, and i think many fans, and Gm's, coaches of other teams just undervalue them in potential acquisitions, ect.

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02-11-2014, 12:01 AM
  #290
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Crosby is the reason why G was snubbed.
People keep saying this. I refuse to believe it. Complete ******** IMO.

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02-11-2014, 12:08 AM
  #291
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I have zero problem with St. Louis getting picked over Giroux. This is Marty's last shot at this, he's got the experience and a winning pedigree and I don't think any player on Canada will be more motivated.

As for Giroux, he may have sealed his fate when he whined about Crosby hacking his wrists in the faceoff dot (which happens frequently - I think Kesler does it every game). No point in risking a potential locker-room rift if you don't need to. Guys need to fall in line and be team first. Maybe Giroux could've done that or maybe he and Sid just don't mix. In any event, Golden Goal always beats haven't-been-there-before.
i'm more against that Yzerman was part of the selection process, its more that he was in a damned if he doesn't pick St. Louis situation.

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02-11-2014, 12:16 AM
  #292
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TBH what raises flags for me is that Col seems to be doing a better job of developing their players than the Oilers have since the time when Sather was the coach.

If RNH, Gagner, Eberle, Hall and Yak were developing at the same rate as the Avs players were we'd be in a playoff spot right now.
you are missing Varlamov, I have watched quite a few games where the avs have gotten killed. I am not conviced they are any better than last year. See how they do the second half of the season.

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02-11-2014, 12:19 AM
  #293
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i'm more against that Yzerman was part of the selection process, its more that he was in a damned if he doesn't pick St. Louis situation.
It shouldn't even be about St. Louis. In the last 4 years St. Louis has more points then any other player in the league, he deserved to be on the team. Giroux deserved to be on the team to but in my eyes R.Nash took his spot. How R.Nash made this team is beyond me.

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02-11-2014, 12:22 AM
  #294
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It shouldn't even be about St. Louis. In the last 4 years St. Louis has more points then any other player in the league, he deserved to be on the team. Giroux deserved to be on the team to but in my eyes R.Nash took his spot. How R.Nash made this team is beyond me.
He was arguably Team Canada's best forward in Vancouver.

You give him the benefit of the doubt because of that.

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02-11-2014, 12:31 AM
  #295
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Just a thought, but if Gabriel Landeskog was Canadian he would be most likely be on this team.
Not bloody likely.

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02-11-2014, 12:36 AM
  #296
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Just a thought, but if Gabriel Landeskog was Canadian he would be most likely be on this team.
Inside joke? You think a 21 year Landeskog with 48 points in 57 games would make it? Stamkos was on his winning the Rocket in 2010 and didn't make it.

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02-11-2014, 12:40 AM
  #297
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I have zero problem with St. Louis getting picked over Giroux. This is Marty's last shot at this, he's got the experience and a winning pedigree and I don't think any player on Canada will be more motivated.

As for Giroux, he may have sealed his fate when he whined about Crosby hacking his wrists in the faceoff dot (which happens frequently - I think Kesler does it every game). No point in risking a potential locker-room rift if you don't need to. Guys need to fall in line and be team first. Maybe Giroux could've done that or maybe he and Sid just don't mix. In any event, Golden Goal always beats haven't-been-there-before.
Either do I, its all about fit

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02-11-2014, 01:04 AM
  #298
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Inside joke? You think a 21 year Landeskog with 48 points in 57 games would make it? Stamkos was on his winning the Rocket in 2010 and didn't make it.
Matt Duchene 55gp: 19g-31a-50pts, 17pim, +/-0 5'11" 200lbs

Gabriel Landeskog 57gp: 18g- 30a-48pts, 45pim, +16 6'01" 204lbs

Inside joke? Duchene has 2 more points, Landeskog is ahead by +16. A lot of times boxcar stats can be misleading but Landeskog isn't given sheltered minutes in Colorado.

Between the two of them which one do you think is the more complete player?

I'll pose the question on the Avs board.

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02-11-2014, 01:21 AM
  #299
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Matt Duchene 55gp: 19g-31a-50pts, 17pim, +/-0 5'11" 200lbs

Gabriel Landeskog 57gp: 18g- 30a-48pts, 45pim, +16 6'01" 204lbs

Inside joke? Duchene has 2 more points, Landeskog is ahead by +16. A lot of times boxcar stats can be misleading but Landeskog isn't given sheltered minutes in Colorado.

Between the two of them which one do you think is the more complete player?

I'll pose the question on the Avs board.
First of all, Duchene is a Centerman. Second of all, that he is there and Giroux is not is an unbelievable failure in logic on the part of Hockey Canada. You've chosen to put Landeskog in over a guy who should have never made the team in the first place (and you chose wisely, as Duchene would be the only player that Landeskog would have a hope in hell to be chosen over).

Also, it's about high time that people give up +/- stats as a means of value measurement; they are at bottom flawed, as with almost every other stat that measures things other than goals and assists.

In short, Landeskog would not make Team Canada this year. Stay away from that horrifically potent Avalanche Kool-Aid

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02-11-2014, 01:30 AM
  #300
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From the sounds of it, Team Canada didn't really consider anyone from the 2010 draft onwards. Seguin probably had a case as well.

Historically Team Canada does not pick players under the age of 23.

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