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Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XIX: The Olympic Freeze

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Old
02-11-2014, 02:33 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
It is amusing to me, Sather is doing exactly what everyone wanted him to do mid-season. Don't overpay for these guys, and if we can't sign them, sell them, even if we're in playoff position.

It's very uncharacteristic.
According to some posters a month ago it was also impossible and ridiculous. "Look at the standings," they said.

Also wow Glen Sather just wants to trade players to see a trade. What is wrong with you, Glen? Why would you trade Girardi? Shiny new toy syndrome.

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Old
02-11-2014, 02:36 PM
  #52
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The Rangers brass is trading McIlrath? The Rangers have a lot invested in him. They trade him and he becomes the player Gorton envisioned him becoming and the Rangers still lack that type of player,they
will look like fools.

Klein is also protection for Stralman. The people following the Rangers praise Stralman. Other people around the NHL have noticed. Is Stralman getting more than $2.9M per over the next 4 years? If you look at the free agent D list,he is getting more than Klein.

How much money do the Rangers want invested on D? Staal is a $6M player. Girardi is a $6M player. McDonagh is at $4.7M. $2.9M for Klein. It wasn't that long ago when Staal and Girardi were at their current contracts with Del Zotto and McDonagh on entry level contracts. Sauer and Stralman had cheap contracts. Now re-signing Staal and Girardi will cost more than the Rangers had in their entire D in 11-12.
I dont sorry about this.

We are looking to pay our D 6 + 6 + 4.7 + 2.9 + 3.75 (Stralman) + roughly 2mil for 7-8 D. 25 mil roughly for 8 guys.

It will be less than 1/3 of our cap next season without Staals new contract. It's not great, but not insane either. When Staals signs, it will also be less than 1/3 with the cap going closer at least to 80m.

Basically 6 of 8 Ds are tradeable if we want to make a change (Staal and Girardi are getting NMCs).

The big upside is of course that our blueline would cost 25m not only 1-2 years from now, BUT also more or less 25m in 4 years from now (if Stralsy also get a long term deal). After 4 years, the cap is getting closer to 93-95m. Then it's all of a sudden an extremely cheap blueline no matter what, and especially when considering that our top guys just has entered their prime by then. McD, Girardi, Staal and Stralsy.

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Old
02-11-2014, 02:46 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Gardner McKay View Post
To me, the option that shouldn't be muttered is extending him. I would rather let him walk for nothing than give him 7 million a year for the next 6-7 years.
Reasonable view. That would make sense to me too. Him at 7, or maybe even 6, would be crippling to the team's success moving forward.

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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Resigning Brassard is a no brainer.
I don't know about no-brainer. Is 3 years for 12 million worth it for a 3rd line winger (essentially)? In his 8 NHL seasons, 6 full seasons, Brassard has never put more more points than 47. He's on pace for 48 points this year. I think it is a reasonable question to ask - is that value fair for a player of that nature? Sure his potential may lead some to believe that he could find consistency during the course of a season and surpass his points ceiling of 47... but 8 seasons seems like a fair sample size to determine where Brassard should be headed moving forward, in terms of points, production, and consistency.

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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Brassard's QO is $3.7 million. Players above $1M aren't due the 10% raise.

I'd love to sign him to something like a $12 million / 3 year deal.
Apologies, I thought the QO was 4.1. Either way, 12/3 is 4 per yr. Is it worth it for him? Our defense is getting paid. McD went up from his ELC to 4.7 mill. Girardi is going up at least 2 mill a season... at least. Staal will see the same increase in AAV for his next contract if he resigns. Stralman's pay is increasing, Moore's pay will be increasing. Klein is an increase over Del Zotto's ELC. We have Miller coming up, on an ELC and likely cheap bridge contract afterwards, due to his lack of NHL experience. Not that i'm advocating for Stastny... but if we buy out Richards, Sather will need to justify the drop off in point production from our 2c... and he will be the hottest FA available at that position. I can see a 7 year deal @ 6.6 (same AAV as Richards' contract now) being mutually agreed to. We'll need a 2w considering that all signs point to Cally being traded. We won't necessarily sign one, but in the event that we trade for one, 2nd line wingers aren't generally cheap either (in terms of contract). That cap isn't rising significantly enough for us to make all of these moves and we'll have to slash $$ at least from somewhere. We have a cheap alternative to Brassard in Fast. Kristo is also another option that is cheap. Miller will take the 3c duties next year and perform fine.

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Originally Posted by Savant View Post
1. I am a proponent of resigning Stralman if he isn't asking for stupid money. I have no problem with 8 NHL caliber dmen let them force the issue. The one think I might consider doing is if Stralman won't resign I might call up San Jose and swap Stralman for pure rental Dan Boyle. Boyle has been down but he can still be dangerous and if Stralman is going to walk anyway let SJ cut some salary and then you free up some money for yourself. But I would rather have signed Stralman.

2/3. Agree. Issue has been beaten to death.

4. I think if Callahan and/or Girardi is dealt he might actually keep Richards. Either way finishing a center is ridiculously hard. I don't love Stastny as a FA. He would need a similar to Richards contract and I'm not sure I would do that. I would also prefer a really fast C. At least someone more mobile than Stepan and Brassard.

5. If you are commiting to some combination of Boyle/Moore/Dorsett/Carcillo, you are sacrificing a ton of offense. I would keep Moore because he will be cheap and look to trade Boyle and either Carcillo or Dorsett for picks, particularly Dorsett (who probably has more value somehow) if Carcillo will resign for less than Dorsett is due.

6. Brassard is worth about 4, but he isn't worth more. Would not pay him more than, for example, Bryan Little for any reason.

7. Staal really becomes the elephant in the room. But I think this gets tabled until next season because there is too much going on. I think Staal would resign, but this is where you need to be careful with the Girardi contract. If you give Girardi a random, when Staal asks for more it could get ugly.
I don't know about a Stralman for Boyle swap. Boyle is in shambles from what I've heard - due to his concussion.

I don't agree that committing to the 4th line we have now is sacrificing offense. Boyle is definitely a black hole, in that regard, but we'd take a significant hit in penalty killing if we lost him. Moore has a replacement in Lindberg, who should add more offense than Moore can add to us. I'd love to trade for someone like Glencross to take Carcillo's spot - keeping the intensity level as high (if not higher) while also adding more scoring.

And I really hope Staal's contract is resolved this summer. This has been a terrible few months of beating the horse dead on G and C and I'd hate to have to repeat the whole thing, with the media and fan speculation, w/ S.

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02-11-2014, 02:53 PM
  #54
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What if they traded Callahan for a 1st and say two prospects that were sort of like a Fast is to us (which I am sure is different for everyone so something like 2 prospects who projected to maybe be middle 6 wings)

Then they turned around and trade one of those prospects, or say a 2nd round pick or something equivalent for Stempniak, mostly because he plays right wing and he can pk. His production is not all that steep of a drop off from Callahan but the intangibles are.

They down grade for this year, but not from Callahan to nothing, but they add a good amount of futures, a 1st and one or two prospects in the process.

Not that I am asking for exactly that or anything but something to that effect where they do not totally lose out on what Callahan brings for this year, but they also do not lose him for nothing or sign him to his demands, and the teams future position gets stronger to the point where maybe one of those prospects added to what the Rangers already have, may some day replace what Callahan brought at least in terms of production.
rather wait till July 1 to sign Stempniak who is an UFA... no sense to trade more prospects or draft picks for a rental.. Stempniak is from NY so maybe he would sign with an east coast team...

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02-11-2014, 03:00 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I dont sorry about this.

We are looking to pay our D 6 + 6 + 4.7 + 2.9 + 3.75 (Stralman) + roughly 2mil for 7-8 D. 25 mil roughly for 8 guys.

It will be less than 1/3 of our cap next season without Staals new contract. It's not great, but not insane either. When Staals signs, it will also be less than 1/3 with the cap going closer at least to 80m.

Basically 6 of 8 Ds are tradeable if we want to make a change (Staal and Girardi are getting NMCs).

The big upside is of course that our blueline would cost 25m not only 1-2 years from now, BUT also more or less 25m in 4 years from now (if Stralsy also get a long term deal). After 4 years, the cap is getting closer to 93-95m. Then it's all of a sudden an extremely cheap blueline no matter what, and especially when considering that our top guys just has entered their prime by then. McD, Girardi, Staal and Stralsy.
I think you left out Moore's new contract from the calculation (or his hypothetical replacement).

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Old
02-11-2014, 03:04 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
rather wait till July 1 to sign Stempniak who is an UFA... no sense to trade more prospects or draft picks for a rental.. Stempniak is from NY so maybe he would sign with an east coast team...
Was thinking that if they traded Callahan they'd want someone to sort of step into his spot for their stretch/playoffs, and on the PK.

Not that I think Stempniak is Callahan, but he's a right wing who would not be totally out of place in their top 9 since they seem to be going with three 2-way lines.

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Old
02-11-2014, 03:04 PM
  #57
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The cap is NOT going to be $80M in two years with the Canadian dollar struggling like it is right now, RB has pointed this out to you numerous times. It'll go up, but not to the degree you're saying.

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Old
02-11-2014, 03:06 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I dont sorry about this.

We are looking to pay our D 6 + 6 + 4.7 + 2.9 + 3.75 (Stralman) + roughly 2mil for 7-8 D. 25 mil roughly for 8 guys.

It will be less than 1/3 of our cap next season without Staals new contract. It's not great, but not insane either. When Staals signs, it will also be less than 1/3 with the cap going closer at least to 80m.

Basically 6 of 8 Ds are tradeable if we want to make a change (Staal and Girardi are getting NMCs).

The big upside is of course that our blueline would cost 25m not only 1-2 years from now, BUT also more or less 25m in 4 years from now (if Stralsy also get a long term deal). After 4 years, the cap is getting closer to 93-95m. Then it's all of a sudden an extremely cheap blueline no matter what, and especially when considering that our top guys just has entered their prime by then. McD, Girardi, Staal and Stralsy.
How is the cap getting to 93-95 mill in 4 years? That seems to me like a massive increase. I haven't read up on the economics and process of how they decide what to raise the cap to, but that number seems massively high to me. For the last 5 years, I believe we've been in the range of 60-70 mill.

The rise in cap ceiling will surely mean rise in cap floor. How can the small market teams even hope to raise their cap by 20-25 million in the next 4 years?

I don't think you can expect anything more than 80 million.

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Old
02-11-2014, 03:08 PM
  #59
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Not worried about signing Stralman this offseason and being to cap heavy on offense, Staal is going to need a new contract after next season, you would think the organization would be hoping by that time at least one of Mc or Allen would be ready to slot in on the right side, and then cap space will be moved.

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Old
02-11-2014, 03:11 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
Was thinking that if they traded Callahan they'd want someone to sort of step into his spot for their stretch/playoffs, and on the PK.

Not that I think Stempniak is Callahan, but he's a right wing who would not be totally out of place in their top 9 since they seem to be going with three 2-way lines.
i understand that. if Boyle leaves (1st time as UFA) or Dom Moore (who i want resigned) then i would not mind if Rangers signed Stempniak to a 2 or 3 year contract.. he would add more skill to the 3rd and 4th lines..

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Old
02-11-2014, 03:16 PM
  #61
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Not worried about signing Stralman this offseason and being to cap heavy on offense, Staal is going to need a new contract after next season, you would think the organization would be hoping by that time at least one of Mc or Allen would be ready to slot in on the right side, and then cap space will be moved.
Is McIlrath defensively responsible enough to cover for Moore? Klein is covering up a lot of Moore's flaws right now. The Del Zotto-Moore pairing was horrid defensively. Horrid.

I like Moore. He's a no ******** kind of guy. But if McIlrath is ready, and the team trades Klein (and resigns Stralman), how do you justify that bottom pairing? McIlrath will have to cover for Moore a lot more than he should for a rookie... Moore likes to join the rush, or pitch in often. McI's speed will always be on the slow side. McI's positioning will lead to his success or demise from the NHL. Pairing him with Moore will be a nightmare for the team, and potentially a detriment to McIlrath's development moving forward.

McIlrath would need to be paired with Staal. Stralman's defensive game has improved IONS in the last couple of years. They're* debatably performing better defensively than McD-G.

What pairing works better? Moore-Stralman or Allen-Stralman?

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02-11-2014, 03:17 PM
  #62
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To me, the option that shouldn't be muttered is extending him. I would rather let him walk for nothing than give him 7 million a year for the next 6-7 years.
Agreed. I wouldn't want to sign him to a 6x6. He's just not as valuable to this team (on the ice) as he once was.

This freeze is making me anxious, and terribly stupid ideas are popping into my head. "If Girardi won't sign before the deadline, and Staal doesn't commit to resigning, let's trade them both in deals that net us 1st rd picks likely to have a good shot at the McDavid lottery."

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02-11-2014, 03:26 PM
  #63
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According to some posters a month ago it was also impossible and ridiculous. "Look at the standings," they said.

Also wow Glen Sather just wants to trade players to see a trade. What is wrong with you, Glen? Why would you trade Girardi? Shiny new toy syndrome.
Did the Rangers trade Girardi and Callahan, yet? Ypu might be awfully disappoint in a few weeks.

Context is important, which is why posters brought up standings.

The standings are the best way to judge a team.

Nobody said Glen Sather wants to trade players to see a trade. It's some posters that want that. YOU know exactly what I'm talking about. Other posters see it too. You still don't believe it. You talk in these absolutes like we don't have a gray area in between.

Why would he trade Girardi without a replacement? Girardi is worth his reported demands.

Yes, the shiny new toy syndrome is in effect. Just look at the posters who want to pay Stastny $7M a year!

I'll ask this of you again. If on March 5th the Rangers don't have a fair offer for Callahan would you still trade him?

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02-11-2014, 03:28 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Did the Rangers trade Girardi and Callahan, yet? Ypu might be awfully disappoint in a few weeks.

Context is important, which is why posters brought up standings.

The standings are the best way to judge a team.

Nobody said Glen Sather wants to trade players to see a trade. It's some posters that want that. YOU know exactly what I'm talking about. Other posters see it too. You still don't believe it. You talk in these absolutes like we don't have a gray area in between.

Why would he trade Girardi without a replacement? Girardi is worth his reported demands.

Yes, the shiny new toy syndrome is in effect. Just look at the posters who want to pay Stastny $7M a year!

I'll ask this of you again. If on March 5th the Rangers don't have a fair offer for Callahan would you still trade him?
What's a fair offer? It all depends on what you deem as 'fair'

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Old
02-11-2014, 03:29 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Did the Rangers trade Girardi and Callahan, yet? Ypu might be awfully disappoint in a few weeks.

Context is important, which is why posters brought up standings.

The standings are the best way to judge a team.

Nobody said Glen Sather wants to trade players to see a trade. It's some posters that want that. YOU know exactly what I'm talking about. Other posters see it too. You still don't believe it. You talk in these absolutes like we don't have a gray area in between.

Why would he trade Girardi without a replacement? Girardi is worth his reported demands.

Yes, the shiny new toy syndrome is in effect. Just look at the posters who want to pay Stastny $7M a year!

I'll ask this of you again. If on March 5th the Rangers don't have a fair offer for Callahan would you still trade him?
SOS,

If Girardi isn't signed by March 5th, I'd hold onto him. I don't see him walking and leaving this organization over a few $100K difference, whether he caves or the organization caves first. There is, like you said, no replacement.

With Callahan, if Stewart is the best offer we get then I'd take it. I hope we can do better. I don't agree with holding onto Callahan because you don't like the offers you are getting. There is too much of a gap in what the rangers thinks he is worth and what callahan/agent think he is worth. He has to go if he does not come down in his demands. He is much more replaceable than Girardi.

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02-11-2014, 03:47 PM
  #66
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SOS,

If Girardi isn't signed by March 5th, I'd hold onto him. I don't see him walking and leaving this organization over a few $100K difference, whether he caves or the organization caves first. There is, like you said, no replacement.

With Callahan, if Stewart is the best offer we get then I'd take it. I hope we can do better. I don't agree with holding onto Callahan because you don't like the offers you are getting. There is too much of a gap in what the rangers thinks he is worth and what callahan/agent think he is worth. He has to go if he does not come down in his demands. He is much more replaceable than Girardi.
Why haven't the Rangers and Girardi agreed to terms yet? How come?

I'm sorry but the Rangers need to have him signed by March 5.

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02-11-2014, 03:48 PM
  #67
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Why haven't the Rangers and Girardi agreed to terms yet? How come?

I'm sorry but the Rangers need to have him signed by March 5.
Extensions take time.

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02-11-2014, 03:49 PM
  #68
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What's a fair offer? It all depends on what you deem as 'fair'
There are some people on this board who don't want to trade anyone.

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02-11-2014, 03:50 PM
  #69
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Extensions take time.
They have had time. Both sides know where the other stands. If you aren't willing to meet in the middle or one party isn't willing to bend then you know what has to be done. This isn't a surprise.

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02-11-2014, 03:50 PM
  #70
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Extensions take time.
Excuse me but they have talking since the summer.

More excuses.

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02-11-2014, 03:54 PM
  #71
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Excuse me but they have talking since the summer.

More excuses.
No no. I realize. Your point is valid. My point is they definitely take time. Agents and F.O's posture. Most of the progress happens when both sides have their back against the wall.

Why didn't the CBA agreement happen until midway through the season? Millions of dollars lost in revenue. Most progress happens in negotiations when both sides are forced to.

Girardi's side hopes by holding until the last possible second will give his client more $$. Sather's playing hardball and hoping that the threat of being traded lowers his player's demand.

I think in Girardi's case, the agreement will happen, and by your Mar 5 deadline.

I don't think that holds the same for Callahan.

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02-11-2014, 03:54 PM
  #72
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if neither are signed by march 5, trade both of them by 3 PM. the hell with it. i'd rather lose both of them than be stuck with another two albatross contracts. girardi for barrie and picks. callahan for stewart and picks. obviously, we will be worse off, but probably not as bad as most expect. through the draft we will add pieces that can play a large role in a few years or be traded as part of a package if an elite player becomes available down the line. seems like common sense to me. as a GM, you cannot fall in love with your own players. you have to do what is best for the success of your franchise.

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Old
02-11-2014, 03:55 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
They have had time. Both sides know where the other stands. If you aren't willing to meet in the middle or one party isn't willing to bend then you know what has to be done. This isn't a surprise.
It's just the nature of negotiating. It's unfortunate, but that's the timeline they tend to follow. For the most part.

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02-11-2014, 03:56 PM
  #74
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It's just the nature of negotiating. It's unfortunate, but that's the timeline they tend to follow. For the most part.
Sather controls the whole thing. Tell them that if the deal is not signed by the end of the Olympic break you will be traded. Make a deadline. Stick to it.

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02-11-2014, 04:00 PM
  #75
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Why haven't the Rangers and Girardi agreed to terms yet? How come?

I'm sorry but the Rangers need to have him signed by March 5.
I wish I could tell you RB. If his asking price is around the $5.5 million mark, I'm not sure why a deal is not done yet. I am not willing to lose Girardi over a couple $100k as I said before.

Callahan on the other hand, I am prepared to lose. Too much money for what he doesn't bring to the table. The money he wants you pay to better all around players such as a Patrice Bergeron type. Not enough offensive ability or even consistent offense to pay callahan what he is desiring. Trade him for the best deal and move on.

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