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Will Dylan McIlrath be one of the worst picks in Rangers recent history?

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Old
02-11-2014, 07:24 PM
  #26
Raspewtin
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Hindsight bias makes it harder, but you know there must have been a reason Fowler/Tarasenko fell so low? There's gotta be a reason these obvious picks fell to outside the top 10, and how the Blues and Ducks committed absolute robbery.

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Old
02-11-2014, 07:26 PM
  #27
Dactyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
You are incredibly misinformed. Not just about MCI, but about the draft in central.

If you can get a second pair defenseman with the #10 pick, it's not a bust, it's a slam dunk. Of the 10 players drafted at #10 before MCI, only one (!) became a top-6F/top-4D. Seven aren't in the NHL. this is true for #9 or #11 as well.

But fans only remember when someone succeeds, not the overwhelming majority that fails. Then they ask, "why did we not get Player X?"

The sitting staff isn't there to listen to Central Scouting. On average, they do a far superior job. Stepan also was an off the board pick. Even if the player doesn't turn out to be the best of anyone they could've chosen, it is no reason to whine.

And once more: getting a top-4 defenseman at #10 is a huge accomplished. To expect a start and whine otherwise only displays your lack of knowledge.
well he is not a top 4 dman yet, so lets not act like that is a sure thing. His ceiling is probably top 4. Fowler could be a #1. Tarasenko, Schwartz, Kuznetsov could be 1st liners. I am not saying he is a bust, I just think there were better players available.

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02-11-2014, 07:32 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
well he is not a top 4 dman yet, so lets not act like that is a sure thing. His ceiling is probably top 4. Fowler could be a #1. Tarasenko, Schwartz, Kuznetsov could be 1st liners. I am not saying he is a bust, I just think there were better players available.
Sorry but "Will Dylan McIlrath be one of the worst picks in recent Rangers history" screams you think he's busting to me.

That's nice. He's 21. Brandon Gormley who was #5 ranked NA skater I believe is in the same position, not in the NHL.

Kuznetzov might never come to the NHL.

Fowler was trending backwards for the last two years until this year.

In 2017 if he's still in the AHL the term bust can be tossed around,

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02-11-2014, 07:35 PM
  #29
Dactyl
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Sorry but "Will Dylan McIlrath be one of the worst picks in recent Rangers history" screams you think he's busting to me.

That's nice. He's 21. Brandon Gormley who was #5 ranked NA skater I believe is in the same position, not in the NHL.

Kuznetzov might never come to the NHL.

Fowler was trending backwards for the last two years until this year.

In 2017 if he's still in the AHL the term bust can be tossed around,
I even said in the OP that the title was over exaggeration. I am not writing him off right now. Gormley has a much higher ceiling than McIlrath. Kuznetsov has expressed that he wants to come over in the near future no? Fowler has been absolutely amazing this year and unlike McIlrath hes been in the NHL the past few years. Once again i never actually called him a bust.

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02-11-2014, 07:41 PM
  #30
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This just proves why drafting for need and not talent in the 1st round is a bad idea.
was going to post this

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02-11-2014, 07:44 PM
  #31
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Too early to tell. Even if he doesn't pan out, it won't be as bad as the Jessiman pick. The 2003 draft was one of the best and deepest drafts in a long time and we missed badly. Not just with Jessiman but with our other picks as well. I think we had like 10 picks and Corey Potter was probably the most successful player we drafted.

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02-11-2014, 07:48 PM
  #32
Machinehead
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It's not my favorite pick, and if I could do it over I would. But McIlrath will be an NHLer methinks. So it's not one of the worst.

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02-11-2014, 07:50 PM
  #33
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Fowler fell right to them and they said, ahh **** it, we'll take someone else.

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02-11-2014, 07:52 PM
  #34
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Unfortunately to a large portion of this fanbase no matter what McIlrath does he will end up being a disappointment.

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02-11-2014, 07:52 PM
  #35
mike14
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Originally Posted by JWK View Post
Hugh Jessiman wasn't that long ago.
Neither was Montoya.

Having said that, if we all just say 'yes' does it mean that this topic will stop being brought up?

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02-11-2014, 07:53 PM
  #36
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I wonder if the people who consistently tout "you shouldn't draft for need over talent in the 1st round" in every McIllrath thread were also the same who were pissed off the Rangers took another D in Skjei.


Also FYI, taking a guy #10 who by most accounts is a top 15 pick is not "going off the board."

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02-11-2014, 07:54 PM
  #37
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Jessiman over Getzlaf? nope nope nope nope and nope.

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02-11-2014, 07:56 PM
  #38
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It almost felt like the McIlrath pick was made with an expectation of eternal Torts hockey. A big physical crease-clearer might have been the biggest need for those teams playing in that style. The roster and the system are different now. The team's set up to play a lot of "no-hitters" (without that even being much of a negative) and we have solid veteran stay at home guys, even if they're not super-physical.

I'm more worried about injury problems than I am about his development curve because I think he ends up somewhere in the NHL. You can make this argument about so many people, but I don't think it would take too much improvement in his skating and his shot to suddenly make him an extremely exciting player.

The McIlrath pick only "burns" NYR fans for two reasons. Fowler and Tarasenko are both looking good (and both would have been very reasonable picks for us to make at the time, both from "the board" and from their styles of play), and we don't get too many cracks at the top end of the draft.

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Old
02-11-2014, 07:57 PM
  #39
n8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike14 View Post
Neither was Montoya.

Having said that, if we all just say 'yes' does it mean that this topic will stop being brought up?


there was not a whole lot in Montoya's draft year. Green and Zajac in the 1st. Radulov maybe (not even in NHL anymore so should we even count him?) but that's like 3 out of 24 picks so not good draft odds there. everything outside of that should be considered a crap shoot.

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02-11-2014, 08:29 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
I did not say he will be just a goon.
Actually, you did say the Rangers drafted "essentially a goon."

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02-11-2014, 08:29 PM
  #41
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Fowler's career trajectory would have been a lot different if he had been drafted by the Rangers instead of the Ducks. He would have never made the Rangers as an 18 year old. He most probably would have gone back to juniors (like Marc Staal did) for the next two years and he would most likely be behind both Staal and McDonagh even today. The Ducks were short on d-men the season he was drafted. It was a major reason why he played in the NHL as an 18 year old. Sometimes opportunity has a lot to do with what happens with a player. There were openings in Duck land that just didn't exit in Rangers land. Playing for Torts would have been another deal. Fowler's defensive issues and soft play would more than probably have made it difficult for him.

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Old
02-11-2014, 08:32 PM
  #42
Dactyl
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Originally Posted by mschmidt64 View Post
Actually, you did say the Rangers drafted "essentially a goon."
Well they did. I don't think he will be just a goon. I think he could be a #4 tough dman.

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02-11-2014, 08:54 PM
  #43
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so you didn't call him a goon but you called him a goon? ok. nice objective thread title as well. lol

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02-11-2014, 08:55 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
Well they did. I don't think he will be just a goon. I think he could be a #4 tough dman.
Those labels are mutually exclusive. A goon is someone who is only in the league for his fighting prowess, and if McIlrath becomes a second-pairing dman, he obviously brings more to the table than a goon.

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02-11-2014, 09:03 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
Hindsight bias makes it harder, but you know there must have been a reason Fowler/Tarasenko fell so low? There's gotta be a reason these obvious picks fell to outside the top 10, and how the Blues and Ducks committed absolute robbery.
Sure, the reason is that most GM's in this league are like Glen Sather and are afraid of players with the label "offensive defenseman" or "highly talented European forward." They're much more comfortable with guys like Hugh Jessiman and Dylan McIlrath.

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02-11-2014, 09:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Fowler's career trajectory would have been a lot different if he had been drafted by the Rangers instead of the Ducks. He would have never made the Rangers as an 18 year old. He most probably would have gone back to juniors (like Marc Staal did) for the next two years and he would most likely be behind both Staal and McDonagh even today. The Ducks were short on d-men the season he was drafted. It was a major reason why he played in the NHL as an 18 year old. Sometimes opportunity has a lot to do with what happens with a player. There were openings in Duck land that just didn't exit in Rangers land. Playing for Torts would have been another deal. Fowler's defensive issues and soft play would more than probably have made it difficult for him.
You could argue that he would have been just as well served by putting in extra time in the AHL. I agree with your point about Torts though. He also wouldn't have been playing the point on the PP with guys like Perry, Getzlaf and Selanne.

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Old
02-11-2014, 09:10 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by StaalWars View Post
Sure, the reason is that most GM's in this league are like Glen Sather and are afraid of players with the label "offensive defenseman" or "highly talented European forward." They're much more comfortable with guys like Hugh Jessiman and Dylan McIlrath.
Is that why Sather drafted Del Zotto, Sanguinetti, Cherepanov, or Grachev, and traded for Zherdev and Wolski?

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Old
02-11-2014, 09:19 PM
  #48
eco's bones
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Originally Posted by StaalWars View Post
You could argue that he would have been just as well served by putting in extra time in the AHL. I agree with your point about Torts though. He also wouldn't have been playing the point on the PP with guys like Perry, Getzlaf and Selanne.
It may have happened that Fowler spent time in the AHL. The Rangers do not have much of a history of rushing their draft picks to the NHL. Staal went back to the OHL twice and Staal is superior in every way to Fowler defensively. Del Zotto made it as a 19 year old but I'm remembering that happening with Renney as the coach and that the next year DZ was in and out of Tort's dog house and even down to the minors because of lapses in his defensive game. Fowler would have got the same treatment IMO. Meanwhile McDonagh was making a big splash. Neither would it have helped Fowler's offensive game much with the Rangers hardly spending any time practicing their pwp. Torts had his ways. 'Hagelin stinks on the pwp' but McDonagh didn't get any time there either and he is the Rangers most gifted defenseman. Fowler's lack of physical aggressiveness might have been another issue. It certainly didn't help Tim Erixon. Fowler might be a lot better in his own end--better at blocking shots and taking the man but the development of his offensive game would almost surely have been retarded.

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Old
02-11-2014, 09:20 PM
  #49
Dactyl
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Is there anyone who doesnt think McIlrath was a mistake? If so why?

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02-11-2014, 09:20 PM
  #50
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Do people not consider Beukeboom a first pair defenseman? He played on the first pair with Leetch almost the whole 90s and nobody complained. Why would MCI not be considered a first pair defenseman if he becomes a similar player.

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