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Old
02-11-2014, 12:33 AM
  #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soothsayer View Post
First of all, Duchene is a Centerman. Second of all, that he is there and Giroux is not is an unbelievable failure in logic on the part of Hockey Canada. You've chosen to put Landeskog in over a guy who should have never made the team in the first place (and you chose wisely, as Duchene would be the only player that Landeskog would have a hope in hell to be chosen over).

Also, it's about high time that people give up +/- stats as a means of value measurement. They are at bottom flawed, as with almost every other stat that measures things other than goals and assists.

In short, Landeskog would not make Team Canada this year. Stay away from that horrifically potent Avalanche Kool-Aid
Duchene is not likely to play center on team Canada. If he plays at all he will be a winger.

The +/- stat can be misleading, but when taken with a grain of salt it's a very useful stat. When Chara has a + beside his name you know he damn well earned it.

Landeskog is driving his own bus, he's a very good two way player who's getting points because he does all the "little things" (big things) right. He's not some kid on a Bryan Murray team getting sheltered minutes with great players. On team Canada's roster he would be an awesome 3rd or 4th line player imo.

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02-11-2014, 12:40 AM
  #302
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From the sounds of it, Team Canada didn't really consider anyone from the 2010 draft onwards. Seguin probably had a case as well.

Historically Team Canada does not pick players under the age of 23.
The lack of grooming process has hurt TC again and again and again over the years... the flaw is hidden in a best on best tournament like the Olympics that only happens every four years but the WJC has been a prime example... just zero consistency from year to year... especially in goal... I have always thought the backup on either Team Canada needs to be the most careful pick and not necessarily the starter because in an ideal world that backup IS the starter next tourney... be it in four years or twelve months from now...

Same should go for the forwards... half the line up may not skate in 2018... now you have to break in Hall Seguin Giroux etc. and have them go in with zero experience on hockey's biggest stage... rinse and repeat

Canada probably wins Gold here but again like I said just masks the troubles at lower levels... that is until the problems are so great they cost the team the ultimate prize... then you know we would see changes immediately

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Old
02-11-2014, 12:42 AM
  #303
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Over on the Avs board I was told that Landeskog was named an Alternate Captain for team Swe and that he's set to play on the top line with Steen and Zetterberg.

I think he's an elite checker in the nhl, I'd have him on the 3rd or 4th line here.

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02-11-2014, 12:59 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
The lack of grooming process has hurt TC again and again and again over the years... the flaw is hidden in a best on best tournament like the Olympics that only happens every four years but the WJC has been a prime example... just zero consistency from year to year... especially in goal... I have always thought the backup on either Team Canada needs to be the most careful pick and not necessarily the starter because in an ideal world that backup IS the starter next tourney... be it in four years or twelve months from now...

Same should go for the forwards... half the line up may not skate in 2018... now you have to break in Hall Seguin Giroux etc. and have them go in with zero experience on hockey's biggest stage... rinse and repeat

Canada probably wins Gold here but again like I said just masks the troubles at lower levels... that is until the problems are so great they cost the team the ultimate prize... then you know we would see changes immediately
The net looks to be bare in the future guys like Holtby, fleury, should have been there instead of Smith though.

As for forwards there going to wait till guys like Hall, Seguin are just fully developed because thats more of the prerequisite (ready made players) they don't look at the tournament as grooming or training for the next olympics cause its so far away. Who really knows who will still be the best players. If you told me Marleau would have been on this team 4 years ago over Thornton I would have laughed, cause Marleau was an outlier then, but its how things go sometimes.

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02-11-2014, 01:00 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Duchene is not likely to play center on team Canada. If he plays at all he will be a winger.

The +/- stat can be misleading, but when taken with a grain of salt it's a very useful stat. When Chara has a + beside his name you know he damn well earned it.

Landeskog is driving his own bus, he's a very good two way player who's getting points because he does all the "little things" (big things) right. He's not some kid on a Bryan Murray team getting sheltered minutes with great players. On team Canada's roster he would be an awesome 3rd or 4th line player imo.
Duchene would/will likely play on the wing, yes. But he was chosen because he can play center. In other words, he was chosen because he is positionally versatile.

The Chara example highlites why +/- is problematic. You need to know something about Chara in order to say that his "+" rating is the result of his defensive ability. Anyways, if you start looking at top scoring forwards who have great "+" ratings, you'll see a lot of guys who should be on team Canada based on that criteria (e.g. Iginla, Marchand, Lucic, etc.).

I'm not trying to sewer your argument about actually watching Landeskog and not simply relying on stats, but I think Landeskog just isn't good enough. I also think that people tend to highlite his intangibles by pointing to his statistics. That and Soundwave is probably right, his young age would be a big factor too.

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02-11-2014, 01:29 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by soothsayer View Post
Duchene would/will likely play on the wing, yes. But he was chosen because he can play center. In other words, he was chosen because he is positionally versatile.
They have Toews, Getzlaf and Crosby firmly planted at center, along with one of the wingers from their NHL team. Marleau and Bergeron are also there to play center. If two of those 5 guys get injured they also have Tavares.

Landeskog would arguably be one of the best defensive wingers on all of team Canada if he was on that team. He's on the 1st line for Sweden but he'd be on the checking line for Canada, how's that for versatile? Duchene isn't the kind of player to be used in a checking role.

Quote:
The Chara example highlites why +/- is problematic. You need to know something about Chara in order to say that his "+" rating is the result of his defensive ability. Anyways, if you start looking at top scoring forwards who have great "+" ratings, you'll see a lot of guys who should be on team Canada based on that criteria (e.g. Iginla, Marchand, Lucic, etc.).
TBH if this tourney was on NA ice I'd have Lucic on this team, along with Nathan Horton guaranteed.

Quote:
I'm not trying to sewer your argument about actually watching Landeskog and not simply relying on stats, but I think Landeskog just isn't good enough. I also think that people tend to highlite his intangibles by pointing to his statistics.
You just haven't seen Landeskog play enough, he is the 2nd coming of Forsberg but on wing.
His statistics are derived from him playing in a shutdown role so they don't fall in the category of flattering, more like hard-earned. And the intangibles are a huge factor in that.
Quote:
That and Soundwave is probably right, his young age would be a big factor too.
I agree that age is usually a factor, and for good reason. Most kids that age are developing their offensive games to belong in the nhl and their defensive game is still more of a work in progress. Landeskog is not in the category of needing to develop his defensive game to belong in the nhl. He's closer to "elite" than "average".


I like the kids the Oilers have too, they are just geared more towards offense than defense. RNH is developing into being good enough to play top 2 line center for team Canada or even 3rd or 4th line c like Getzlaf or Toews have the ability to do. That's impressive, because center on team Canada is the by far hardest position in the world to get. I just hope RNH stays healthy from here on out, that's my only worry with him.

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02-11-2014, 02:28 PM
  #307
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I don't think Duchene should be on Team Canada.

I think the primary reason he made the team is because he is an incredible skater and demonstrated so at the last WHC. He is a natural C who has spent some time at LW but didn't perform nearly as well while on the wing. His offensive production in the NHL this year isn't overly impressive (sub ppg). Duchene is also a notorious puck hog who doesn't utilize his linemates overly well. To compound things, he is relatively average defensively.

Sure he has versatility, but he won't get anywhere near centre ice with all the options Canada has. Overall, I think it was a poor choice.

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02-11-2014, 03:48 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
I like the kids the Oilers have too, they are just geared more towards offense than defense. RNH is developing into being good enough to play top 2 line center for team Canada or even 3rd or 4th line c like Getzlaf or Toews have the ability to do. That's impressive, because center on team Canada is the by far hardest position in the world to get. I just hope RNH stays healthy from here on out, that's my only worry with him.
I think RNH and Hall will be on the next Olympic team. RNH plays an ideal game for Canada, offensive ability with solid defensive. He just has to get his offensive numbers up a bit.

Hall probably could have been on it this year, but understand that his turnovers probably led to him being cut. I think RNH and Hall will keep developing chemistry and will have a good chance at making the 2018 (if NHL players go) because of that

Im not really worried about RNHs health. Hes still pencil thin, but that's because of having no offseason. I think this offseason hell get bigger and be good sized center. He also plays a very smart game so is hit pretty infrequently (much less than Hall)

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Old
02-11-2014, 04:09 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
The lack of grooming process has hurt TC again and again and again over the years... the flaw is hidden in a best on best tournament like the Olympics that only happens every four years but the WJC has been a prime example... just zero consistency from year to year... especially in goal... I have always thought the backup on either Team Canada needs to be the most careful pick and not necessarily the starter because in an ideal world that backup IS the starter next tourney... be it in four years or twelve months from now...

Same should go for the forwards... half the line up may not skate in 2018... now you have to break in Hall Seguin Giroux etc. and have them go in with zero experience on hockey's biggest stage... rinse and repeat

Canada probably wins Gold here but again like I said just masks the troubles at lower levels... that is until the problems are so great they cost the team the ultimate prize... then you know we would see changes immediately
This is likely the last time NHL attend the Olympics so this point is more than likely moot.

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Old
02-11-2014, 05:00 PM
  #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchultzSquared View Post
The lack of grooming process has hurt TC again and again and again over the years... the flaw is hidden in a best on best tournament like the Olympics that only happens every four years but the WJC has been a prime example... just zero consistency from year to year... especially in goal... I have always thought the backup on either Team Canada needs to be the most careful pick and not necessarily the starter because in an ideal world that backup IS the starter next tourney... be it in four years or twelve months from now...

Same should go for the forwards... half the line up may not skate in 2018... now you have to break in Hall Seguin Giroux etc. and have them go in with zero experience on hockey's biggest stage... rinse and repeat

Canada probably wins Gold here but again like I said just masks the troubles at lower levels... that is until the problems are so great they cost the team the ultimate prize... then you know we would see changes immediately

i agree with what you are saying but we also need to remember the core of team canada Crosby, Toews, Tavares, duchense, benn, doughty, piets, subban, vlasic, are all young and will be there next time as well

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Old
02-11-2014, 11:22 PM
  #311
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Do we know who's doing play by play for Canada yet?

Can we get Bob Cole, I love Bob Cole!

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Old
02-12-2014, 01:08 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by 402 View Post
Do we know who's doing play by play for Canada yet?

Can we get Bob Cole, I love Bob Cole!
I surprisingly don't mind him either, but I always got etched in my mind when he says: "they gotta score, that's all"

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Old
02-12-2014, 01:32 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Duchene is not likely to play center on team Canada. If he plays at all he will be a winger.

The +/- stat can be misleading, but when taken with a grain of salt it's a very useful stat. When Chara has a + beside his name you know he damn well earned it.

Landeskog is driving his own bus, he's a very good two way player who's getting points because he does all the "little things" (big things) right. He's not some kid on a Bryan Murray team getting sheltered minutes with great players. On team Canada's roster he would be an awesome 3rd or 4th line player imo.
It depends on the type of game that is being played. On international ice, the game is better suited to Duchene's strengths. On NHL ice, it's better suited to Landeskog's strengths. It would also depend on where you'd slot them in the lineup. Imo, Landeskog is the better all around player, to Sweden what Bergeron is to us.


Last edited by 17Kurri: 02-12-2014 at 01:59 AM.
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Old
02-12-2014, 02:22 AM
  #314
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Quote:
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I surprisingly don't mind him either, but I always got etched in my mind when he says: "they gotta score, that's all"
Quote:
Originally Posted by 402 View Post
Do we know who's doing play by play for Canada yet?

Can we get Bob Cole, I love Bob Cole!
Wait a minute!

There are people out there who like Bob Cole? I like Bob Cole. We're going to get along juusssttttt fine.

Really though, it's surprising how many people hate Cole, but his voice is one of the best for hockey IMO. The tone, and level of deserved excitement are spot on.

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02-12-2014, 05:01 AM
  #315
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Price to start the first game. IMO it's the right choice from the season he's had so far. Hopefully he goes WJC on this tourney.

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02-12-2014, 11:37 AM
  #316
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I'm a huge Bob Cole fan. Him and Harry Neale were a fixture in my life watching playoffs growing up. Huge nostalgia points from my perspective. Legendary voice.

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02-12-2014, 11:50 AM
  #317
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Are people actually ripping the Duchene selection?

Hilarious. He's basically Taylor Hall who spends less time on his ass.....

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02-12-2014, 12:10 PM
  #318
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Are people actually ripping the Duchene selection?

Hilarious. He's basically Taylor Hall who spends less time on his ass.....
And gets less points, and uses his teammates less.

Last 3 seasons:

Hall: 159 games 159 points (1.00 ppg)
Duchene: 160 games 121 points (.75 ppg)

Hall has 38 more points in 1 less game.

Excluding Duchenes down year, Hall has 13 more points in 4 less games in the last two seasons. For reference: Tavares has 194 in 189 for a 1.02 ppg (.02 higher)

I understand the turnover thing with Hall, but atleast hes trying to pass the puck around


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02-12-2014, 06:57 PM
  #319
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What would Canada's B-squad be?

Hall Staal Seguin
Kane O'Rielly MacKinnon
Eberle Thornton Iginla (C)
Lucic J. Staal Richards
Nugent Hopkins

Phaneuf Boyle
M. Staal Letang
Green Giordano
Methot

Ward
Bernier
Harding


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Old
02-12-2014, 07:12 PM
  #320
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Bergeron is already on the A team.

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02-12-2014, 07:13 PM
  #321
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Bergeron is already on the A team.
Must've missed that. Added Jordan Staal instead.

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02-12-2014, 07:14 PM
  #322
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What would Canada's B-squad be?

Hall Staal Seguin
Kane O'Rielly MacKinnon
Eberle Thornton Iginla (C)
Lucic J. Staal Richards
Nugent Hopkins

Phaneuf Boyle
M. Staal Letang
Green Giordano
Byfuglien

Ward
Bernier
Byfuglien is an American

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Old
02-12-2014, 07:21 PM
  #323
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Methot in.

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Old
02-12-2014, 07:40 PM
  #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohheyhemsky View Post
Wait a minute!

There are people out there who like Bob Cole? I like Bob Cole. We're going to get along juusssttttt fine.

Really though, it's surprising how many people hate Cole, but his voice is one of the best for hockey IMO. The tone, and level of deserved excitement are spot on.
Amen soldier! Bob Cole's style is by far the greatest, he doesn't over do it, he doesn't get caught up in having a side conversation about random crap, he just calls the game, and IIIIIII love it

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Old
02-12-2014, 07:52 PM
  #325
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No Dubnyk?

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