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Is Carbo Losing the Team

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Old
02-09-2007, 01:07 PM
  #26
BadHabit
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I think it's pretty safe to say he's lost the team. I'm not sure what he has to do to bring them back, but he'd better do it fast.

Stop being a blockhead like Tremblay and swallow your pride Carbo!

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02-09-2007, 01:07 PM
  #27
knuckles3030
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Originally Posted by brownman View Post
Between Gainey, Carbo, Muller and Jarvis there is too much knowledge for the game and its players to let the dressing room slip away completely. This is a long rough patch but, God willing, when the Habs pull the trigger on a deal it will shake things up and reinvigorate the room.

One thing they can't do is trade Rivet; the team would completely implode should he be moved by the deadline.
Just like Tremblay, Cournoyer and Shutt?

Carbo's lost this team for a while now with his discutable decisions. The only reason we're losing more is because Saku is tired and can't put up the same kind of performances anymore (Saku can't play a full season at the same level with his health anymore), Huet has been ordinary, our PP and PK came back to Earth.

Defensive mentally has ruined this team for too long now. It works for NJ, but it hasn't worked here in years. You wonder why certain players don't give enough effort and why most are not producing offensively.

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02-09-2007, 01:08 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
It might have been a stretch, but Russians stick together and you never know if Markov is upset for how Samsonov and Perezhogin are treated.

I personally think he will re-sign, however.
The bolded part of your post was my point. I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact that these guys are pros, this isn't a group of beer leaguers who harbour grudges when the coach mistreats a buddy.

It is probably more reasonable to look at Markov's ice time, his role with the team and his perception of where the team is going as factors in his decision to resign with the Habs.


Last edited by habfan4: 02-09-2007 at 01:14 PM.
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02-09-2007, 01:09 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Julien, Therrien and Vigneault got their feet wet in Montreal. You learn from mistakes, which is why they are better coaches now.
So will Carbo... Another coach wouldn't do much better with these players, but that can't be verified. Carbo is not responsible for the fact that Kovalev is overrated (like many other Habs players).

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02-09-2007, 01:09 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
Which players have we lost or traded in the last 5-6 seasons have been rocking it somewhere else?
Dunno... maybe Theodore and Brisebois

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02-09-2007, 01:11 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by knuckles3030 View Post
He's not the only mentioning that Carbo doesn't like russian-type players. Someone else mentioned this in another thread as well. I could see the russians forming a clique when they see the coach clearly favoring local boys. I'm not saying they're doing the right thing, but they're not the only ones at fault.

Besides, if you were with a group of Japanese playersin Japan, wouldn't it be normal for you to hang out more with the 3 or 4 Canadians on your team?
All due respect to waffledave and the other posters who may have said that Carbonneau doesn't like russian players, but, How do they know? Let's not pretend that either one of us knows what is going on in the dressing room and let's not allow our speculation to masquerade as fact.

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02-09-2007, 01:11 PM
  #32
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I think you only have to look as far as the captain to find out the problems in the dressing room. Koivu has never been a very good leader IN the room imo. But I could be wrong, I ain't in there.

The coach isn't the only factor sometimes... the captain has got to be the rope that ties everything together within the players. So far, Koivu hasn't shown he can do that. Remember the Ribeiro incident? Or the fact there's always been issues between the players? Those things would NEVER happen with say, Steve Yzerman being the captain.

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02-09-2007, 01:14 PM
  #33
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Carbo hasn't lost the team. He just can't put out the X's and O's for this team to be successful.

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02-09-2007, 01:16 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
A minor point, but both Rivet and Koivu are veterans and no longer have room mates when on the road. All this talk about Carbonneau's benching Rivet affecting Koivu's game is idol speculation, they are professionals after all (ditto this report of a locker room divided).
Agreed. I think some people have watched "Lance et Compte" or any Anglophone equivalent one time too many.

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02-09-2007, 01:17 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Habs4Lyfe View Post
got this from another board..it was posted at around 11:20 this morning...

"Listening to the Team990 right now, and according to them, the dressing room is divided. Remember how united everyone was when we were winning? Everyone was doing everything together. Now apparently the Russians have a clique and go off and do their own thing on the road, and I'm not sure, but there may be some others. They're suggesting that Carbo has lost the dressing room... "
And that's why next time some player would tell all of us that he has never seen an atmosphere like this before, while they're winning, I suggest you don't take that into consideration.....

You win, great atmosphere, you don't not so great......Sure there's cliques, the French Canadian one, the canadian anglos one, the russian ones, the american ones, I wouldn't even be surprised to see a Swiss one and even a french from France one.....(likes to be alone....)

Best atmosphere ever in that dressing room....yeah right.....But then people have their right to go out with whom they want, and I don't care. Do you seriously think that some teams go out as a group of 20 everytime they go out? My concern is how it reflects on the ice and if you play for each other, and so far I don't like what I'm seeing as far as the "greatest atmosphere in a long time"......

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02-09-2007, 01:17 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
I think you only have to look as far as the captain to find out the problems in the dressing room. Koivu has never been a very good leader IN the room imo. But I could be wrong, I ain't in there.

The coach isn't the only factor sometimes... the captain has got to be the rope that ties everything together within the players. So far, Koivu hasn't shown he can do that. Remember the Ribeiro incident? Or the fact there's always been issues between the players? Those things would NEVER happen with say, Steve Yzerman being the captain.
I would invite you to re-read that bolded part to realize how contradictory and therefore pointless it sounds.

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02-09-2007, 01:18 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
The bolded part of your post was my point. I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact that these guys are pros, this isn't a group of beer leaguers who harbour grudges when the coach mistreats a buddy.

It probably more reasonable to look at Markov's ice time, his role with the team and his perception of where the team is going as factors in his decision to resign with the Habs.
I agree with you. I didn't say he wouldn't re-sign, I said "I wonder". I also think you're overestimating the maturity level of alot of these players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simz78 View Post
So will Carbo... Another coach wouldn't do much better with these players, but that can't be verified. Carbo is not responsible for the fact that Kovalev is overrated (like many other Habs players).
That's why Gainey needs to step in and talk to Carbo. I think we can all agree that Carbo is a very proud and passionate man, and I don't know if he is the type to admit his mistakes without someone he respects pointing them out. The only time I've seen him admit to making a mistake was after the Gainey-Carbo-Samsonov meeting.

I don't think we should fire him. But I do think he needs to realize his mitakes, behind closed doors of course.

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02-09-2007, 01:19 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
All due respect to waffledave and the other posters who may have said that Carbonneau doesn't like russian players, but, How do they know? Let's not pretend that either one of us knows what is going on in the dressing room and let's not allow our speculation to masquerade as fact.
Carbo is very close of Gainey, he had his words in signing Samsonov. If anything, Carbo seems to enjoy the players who play an europeans style.


It's amazing how dump this board can be. The "Carbo lost the room 3 months ago because of Lats" thing is one of the stupidest thing I've ever read, specially when spammed as a fact and not a theory. No one but the players and Carbo know what happen in the room and the team was playing quite good till recently.

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02-09-2007, 01:21 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
All due respect to waffledave and the other posters who may have said that Carbonneau doesn't like russian players, but, How do they know? Let's not pretend that either one of us knows what is going on in the dressing room and let's not allow our speculation to masquerade as fact.
We don't know. All we can see from being armchair GMs is that he seems to have it out for certain Russian players.

I'm not claiming anything as facts, just giving my opinions based on observations.

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02-09-2007, 01:23 PM
  #40
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Ah...nothing like wild speculation when a team is struggling. Everyone hates each other, every player will leave when their contract is up, every player is in a clique just like high school, every player wants to fight Carbo...

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02-09-2007, 01:25 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
We don't know. All we can see from being armchair GMs is that he seems to have it out for certain Russian players.

I'm not claiming anything as facts, just giving my opinions based on observations.
I know, I was responding to a poster who felt that since you and another poster (or posters) had drawn the same conclusions that there was some merit to it beyond simple speculation.

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02-09-2007, 01:28 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Beatnik View Post
Carbo is very close of Gainey, he had his words in signing Samsonov. If anything, Carbo seems to enjoy the players who play an europeans style.


It's amazing how dump this board can be. The "Carbo lost the room 3 months ago because of Lats" thing is one of the stupidest thing I've ever read, specially when spammed as a fact and not a theory. No one but the players and Carbo know what happen in the room and the team was playing quite good till recently.
I agree, a lot of this stuff is way out there, but that's the nature of the beast when the team is struggling.

I find it difficult, to impossible, to believe that with 3 former captains (who played under numerous coaches) involved in the day to day management of the team that the room is split or that there is a lack of leadership. But then again that's me.

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02-09-2007, 01:29 PM
  #43
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I see a bunch of gaps in this thread, which can only mean that our great and good friend Beatnik is posting. Of course, with Beatnik on my ignore list I no longer need to read his filth, but I wager he's acused me 7-8 times already of being anti french-Canadian in this thread.

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02-09-2007, 01:30 PM
  #44
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
The bolded part of your post was my point. I think we sometimes lose sight of the fact that these guys are pros, this isn't a group of beer leaguers who harbour grudges when the coach mistreats a buddy.

It is probably more reasonable to look at Markov's ice time, his role with the team and his perception of where the team is going as factors in his decision to resign with the Habs.
While I don't totally disagree with your post, I do think that there seems to be a big misconception about the "being pro's" notion on this board.

Being a professionally paid athlete does not stop these guys from being human beings, fully suceptible to all of the emotional up's and downs that all people face, and, if anything, often more prone to emotional issues given that their lives are so much different than the average individual. Very few people know what it's like to push themselves mentally AND physically on a daily basis... train and compete through painful injuries... be away from friends and family for long stretches of time... face the constant scrutiny of the media/fans... deal with the threat of being traded/waived/benched ect... playing in a foreign country/not speaking the language well... playing with guys you dislike/can't stand or for a coach you hate...

Point being that an athletes life is very volatile, and puts otherwise normal human beings in some very stressfull emotional situations.
*Note, i'm not trying to create sympathy for pro athletes who make millions of dollars doing what they love, anyone should be so lucky, that being said, money does not diminish the issues that they face... issues that are also faced by the countless elite ahtletes who toil in poorly paid pro leagues, or as elite amateur athletes barely getting by on below the poverty line compensation.

The very best athletes are those who compete with great consistancy despite the obstacles, and with a minimum of complaining (at least publicly) and their success creates the "being a pro" model that people like to believe is standard with all/moist athletes. This just simply isn';t the case, and I say this from experience.

Unless anyone here is a close friend of Markov, it is obviously useless to put words in his mouth, that being said it is not unreasonable to imagine that he is closer to the russian players on the club, and that he could be irritated by perceived slights they have endured (though it is equally feasible that he is closer to some other players on the team, russia is a huge country and speaking the same language doesnt necessarioly mean that they will get along... I know plenty of english canadians that I couldn't care less about, as I'm sure everyone else can relate to!)

cheers

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02-09-2007, 01:35 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I see a bunch of gaps in this thread, which can only mean that our great and good friend Beatnik is posting. Of course, with Beatnik on my ignore list I no longer need to read his filth, but I wager he's acused me 7-8 times already of being anti french-Canadian in this thread.


You do hate french Canadian. It's not an accusation, it's a fact. Your stupid claim about how Carbo lost the room for promoting Lats many months ago is only proof #897.

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02-09-2007, 01:46 PM
  #46
habfan4
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
While I don't totally disagree with your post, I do think that there seems to be a big misconception about the "being pro's" notion on this board.

Being a professionally paid athlete does not stop these guys from being human beings, fully suceptible to all of the emotional up's and downs that all people face, and, if anything, often more prone to emotional issues given that their lives are so much different than the average individual. Very few people know what it's like to push themselves mentally AND physically on a daily basis... train and compete through painful injuries... be away from friends and family for long stretches of time... face the constant scrutiny of the media/fans... deal with the threat of being traded/waived/benched ect... playing in a foreign country/not speaking the language well... playing with guys you dislike/can't stand or for a coach you hate...

Point being that an athletes life is very volatile, and puts otherwise normal human beings in some very stressfull emotional situations.
*Note, i'm not trying to create sympathy for pro athletes who make millions of dollars doing what they love, anyone should be so lucky, that being said, money does not diminish the issues that they face... issues that are also faced by the countless elite ahtletes who toil in poorly paid pro leagues, or as elite amateur athletes barely getting by on below the poverty line compensation.

The very best athletes are those who compete with great consistancy despite the obstacles, and with a minimum of complaining (at least publicly) and their success creates the "being a pro" model that people like to believe is standard with all/moist athletes. This just simply isn';t the case, and I say this from experience.

Unless anyone here is a close friend of Markov, it is obviously useless to put words in his mouth, that being said it is not unreasonable to imagine that he is closer to the russian players on the club, and that he could be irritated by perceived slights they have endured (though it is equally feasible that he is closer to some other players on the team, russia is a huge country and speaking the same language doesnt necessarioly mean that they will get along... I know plenty of english canadians that I couldn't care less about, as I'm sure everyone else can relate to!)

cheers
I suppose I should have expanded on my point and not relied on the cliché "they're pros". I concur that athletes are under enormous stress and that they face pressures we cannot fully appreciate. I also agree that the "pro" label doesn't apply to all players (most probably fall short). I think perhaps "veteran" would have been a more appropriate term. I think a veteran like Markov displays a business like approach to the game which IMO probably underlies his character (of course this is just speculation on my part).

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02-09-2007, 01:49 PM
  #47
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I only say this cause i see the Saku really not playing that well....and with his Roomate Rivet being benched maybe Saku has lost fate in Carbo and it has trickled to the other players....and add to the fact the whole Sammy affair and the lack of goals and the constant Line juggling...This all smells pretty bad ....I'm not saying that this is fact...but it is fuel for thought

Personally this team was a 6-7-8 place team starting this year and we played over our heads for the first half ...and although everyone had high hopes ...this is still and 6-7-8 seed."if you are realistic"..lets just hope the team can get together and get that seed and put a few wins together.
Judging by the effort on the ice, yes. Losing by lack of skill is one thing. Losing by lack of effort is a reflection of how the players respect the coaching staff, and G.M

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02-09-2007, 01:53 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by knuckles3030 View Post
Just like Tremblay, Cournoyer and Shutt?
Carbo/Muller/Jarvis > Tremblay/Cournoyer/Shutt

How long was Cournoyer an assistant? One year? Muller is here for the long haul and Doug Jarvis is God...he's ugly but he's God.

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02-09-2007, 01:55 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by cjbhab View Post
It's not that easy to just send everyone packing.
Not saying it is, but as far as busting up the cliques Gainey's been pretty efficient at it. The "turnaround list" of guys no longer here since he began is pretty staggering.

A "Russian clique" headed by Kovalev would be a disaster for the club. I hope this isn't the case.

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02-09-2007, 01:57 PM
  #50
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A "Russian clique" headed by Kovalev would be a disaster for the club. I hope this isn't the case.
If I wasn't a Habs fan, such a notion would be absolutely hilarious to me. Can't you just picture Kovy standing around with his arms folded and nodding at the other Russians to do his dirty work, like dumping dog **** in Ryder's stall and whatnot?

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