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Is Carbo Losing the Team

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Old
02-09-2007, 03:29 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by simz78 View Post
Well that's my point, if they were happy for him, how did it send a wrong message to the players?
Because it shows blatant favoritism.

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02-09-2007, 03:29 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by yukoner View Post
Ryder and Higgins play on our #1 scoring line, yet are not expected to be some of our top players?? Run that by me again??
Ok here i'll try again, when looking at his lineup, Gainey probably expect more from Koivu and Kovalev than he does from Ryder and Higgins, and i did mention that Higgins was one of our top players, only he's still young, plus Saku has been (or Saku hasbeen) the Habs main players for years now, and look what happened in those years, not much.

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02-09-2007, 03:30 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
Perezhogin's confidence ?! If anything Carbo gave him confidence playing him with Bonk and Johnson until December. He was the guy on the line allowed to run wild. He had little offense to show and was taking hooking penalty more often than our D-mens that plays 20minutes a game. At some point he was not even playing hard anymore. You can see everyone who played with Bonk and Johnson had sucess and looked good.

Nobody cares in the locker room if Perezhogin get the shaft and Carbo certainly didn't lose control because he started to hardball him when he realized he was just leeching off Bonk and Johnson stellar play. If Carbo lost the team it's because of bad calls like sending the 4th line for a faceoff in the offensive zone, not breaking a slumping 2nd line when the team was winning and some other coaching mistakes. I could quote you on many things, you posted a lot of non-sense in this thread imo.
Carbo lost this team for a variety of reasons, but for the most part it is due to the favoratism he displays. You can disagree with me all you want. I've played alot of team sports in my life, and yeah, it's not the NHL, but I know how it feels when a coach plays favorites and I know that it's the number 1 reason players stop caring.

I'm not the only person saying this. Look at the media. They're saying the same things. PJ Stock has been saying this for weeks now. Some may think he has no credibility but he's played in the NHL and he has ties with the current roster on the Canadiens.

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Old
02-09-2007, 03:32 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by yukoner View Post
Because it shows blatant favoritism.
Favoritism under what kind of arguments? Is it a french thing again? (cause we all know he's not his son). Pure BS, if they were happy, how would they see that as favoritism? But nevermind, i don't think it is relevant. The team playing bad hockey has nothing to do with a decision made two months ago, in my opinion, the players haven't changed, the leader should be scoring goals, they're not, and i don't buy that they're not scoring cause they don't like the coach.

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02-09-2007, 03:42 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by simz78 View Post
Favoritism under what kind of arguments? Is it a french thing again? (cause we all know he's not his son). Pure BS, if they were happy, how would they see that as favoritism? But nevermind, i don't think it is relevant. The team playing bad hockey has nothing to do with a decision made two months ago, in my opinion, the players haven't changed, the leader should be scoring goals, they're not, and i don't buy that they're not scoring cause they don't like the coach.
Doesn't have to be a language or nationality thing. Carbo likes certain players and they get a free pass. Latendresse, Ryder, Koivu, Kovalev, Higgins...Carbo holds others accountable but he lets these guys get away with murder.

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02-09-2007, 03:46 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by simz78 View Post
Favoritism under what kind of arguments? Is it a french thing again? (cause we all know he's not his son). Pure BS, if they were happy, how would they see that as favoritism? But nevermind, i don't think it is relevant. The team playing bad hockey has nothing to do with a decision made two months ago, in my opinion, the players haven't changed, the leader should be scoring goals, they're not, and i don't buy that they're not scoring cause they don't like the coach.
I'm not sure why you're having such a hard time seeing this.

When Latendresse was promoted to line 1 he a rookie who had never played on the team before, he was a -6, with 0 points in 13 games.

Perezhogin had 5pts and was a +6, and had been with the team for years, playing in the AHL paying his dues, and 67 games last year on the 3rd or 4th line.

Samsonov was a new UFA who was struggling, yet still had much better numbers than Lats, with 7points in 13 games, and a +3.

Carbo decides to promote the french 19 year old rookie, instead of both of these guys, with more experience and better numbers. How do you think they felt?? How do you think the rest of the locker room viewed that?

No-one's saying that it's all a result of that decision, just that it was the start of the downfall, and a trend of favoritism that Carbo has continued throughout the year.

The end result of that favoritism is what we see today, most of the players just don't care what he says, they don't respect him, and they don't listen.

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02-09-2007, 04:02 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Carbo lost this team when Higgins was injured and he promoted Latendresse to the 1st line when the 2nd line needed a shakeup.
I agree with Annihilator, who started this thread, that Carbo has lost the team and I agree with you that Lats should never have been promoted to the first line. From what I've seen so far from Lats only indicates that his real potential is 3rd line material.

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02-09-2007, 04:06 PM
  #108
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I was against the Latendresse movement when it started. He's a good kid who will only get better.. but Kostitsyn really should be here on the team and Latendresse should still be in the Q.

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02-09-2007, 04:13 PM
  #109
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i appreciate carbo's intensity, his fire, and it's obvious he wants to win... as a player he was the lead by example type... however it's quite hard to coach and wear you heart on your sleeve... ask tortorella... this style can alienate players... see john grahme... i've decided i'll give carbo more time... the intensity is great when you're winning and easy to criticize when you're loosing... i think we just need a trade and we'll come around... he'll be a coach of the year candidate again once the team gets back on the up and up.

however i do not appreciate his lack of composure toward referees and his facial expressions which make referees hate us... i wish he would stop this... i don't want to see us branded as whinners like the Quinn Leafs.

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02-09-2007, 04:23 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner View Post
I'm not sure why you're having such a hard time seeing this.

When Latendresse was promoted to line 1 he a rookie who had never played on the team before, he was a -6, with 0 points in 13 games.

Perezhogin had 5pts and was a +6, and had been with the team for years, playing in the AHL paying his dues, and 67 games last year on the 3rd or 4th line.

Samsonov was a new UFA who was struggling, yet still had much better numbers than Lats, with 7points in 13 games, and a +3.

Carbo decides to promote the french 19 year old rookie, instead of both of these guys, with more experience and better numbers. How do you think they felt?? How do you think the rest of the locker room viewed that?

No-one's saying that it's all a result of that decision, just that it was the start of the downfall, and a trend of favoritism that Carbo has continued throughout the year.

The end result of that favoritism is what we see today, most of the players just don't care what he says, they don't respect him, and they don't listen.
So.. basically what you are saying is that Perezhogin was doing well ont he third line with Bonk and Johnson, Samsonov was doing ok with Kovalev and Plekanec and Latendresse was doing poorly on the fourth line. The team however, was winning. So instead of taking apart 2 lines that were working well ( second not as much, but then again everyone thought Samsonov was going to mesh better in time ) Carbo took one guy from a line that wasn't doing much and put him with 2 other guys.. and it worked.

Some of you are looking waaaaaaay too much into this. Team is losing, players are frustrated. **** happen. Few victories and everyone will talk about how great the team is.

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02-09-2007, 04:30 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
Which players have we lost or traded in the last 5-6 seasons have been rocking it somewhere else?
Theo and Brisebois?

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02-09-2007, 04:37 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Azalichio View Post
So.. basically what you are saying is that Perezhogin was doing well ont he third line with Bonk and Johnson, Samsonov was doing ok with Kovalev and Plekanec and Latendresse was doing poorly on the fourth line. The team however, was winning. So instead of taking apart 2 lines that were working well ( second not as much, but then again everyone thought Samsonov was going to mesh better in time ) Carbo took one guy from a line that wasn't doing much and put him with 2 other guys.. and it worked.
To a player, moving up to line 1 is considered a reward, you get more icetime and more responsibility. Rewards should be given to players that earn them, and that's the problem. Lats never earned a thing, and was rewarded for it.

As for it working, I'd have to disagree, Latendresse and Koivu did OK, but line 2 was horrible.

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02-09-2007, 04:42 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner View Post
To a player, moving up to line 1 is considered a reward, you get more icetime and more responsibility. Rewards should be given to players that earn them, and that's the problem. Lats never earned a thing, and was rewarded for it.

As for it working, I'd have to disagree, Latendresse and Koivu did OK, but line 2 was horrible.
He played well enough to get a place on the team in training camp. Stats weren't there but he wasn't playing that bad on the fourth line. Begin was but a shadow of what he was last year on that line and Murray/Downey have been pretty bad so far this season. Carbo probably thought that for a game or two he could try him with them and it clicked. Good enough he kept him there till Higgins came back.

edit : Latendresse could also have earned his spot outside the ice, by always being intense in practice and always doing what he's told to do without whining. We don't know if Perezhogin and Samsonov have been doing that.

Hell for all we know things could be going like this in the training :

carbo : Sammy, all you have to do is drive the net! that's it! that's what you used to do in your first season!
Sammy : wah?
Carbo : just drive the net!
Sammy : the net?
Carbo : yes.... that thing with the guy in front!!
Sammy : but there's big guy there....
Carbo : but that's what made you win the Calder damnit!
Sammy ( to kovalev ) : what's this guy talking about..?

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02-09-2007, 04:49 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Azalichio View Post
He played well enough to get a place on the team in training camp. Stats weren't there but he wasn't playing that bad on the fourth line. Begin was but a shadow of what he was last year on that line and Murray/Downey have been pretty bad so far this season. Carbo probably thought that for a game or two he could try him with them and it clicked. Good enough he kept him there till Higgins came back.

edit : Latendresse could also have earned his spot outside the ice, by always being intense in practice and always doing what he's told to do without whining. We don't know if Perezhogin and Samsonov have been doing that.

Hell for all we know things could be going like this in the training :

carbo : Sammy, all you have to do is drive the net! that's it! that's what you used to do in your first season!
Sammy : wah?
Carbo : just drive the net!
Sammy : the net?
Carbo : yes.... that thing with the guy in front!!
Sammy : but there's big guy there....
Carbo : but that's what made you win the Calder damnit!
Sammy ( to kovalev ) : what's this guy talking about..?
Hey I love Lats, but he never should've been put on the 1st line before Samonov or Perezhogin.

It's all about earning your dues, Samonov is a 7year NHL veteran who just came of the final round of the playoffs, scoring 15pts in 24 games.

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02-09-2007, 04:58 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner View Post
Hey I love Lats, but he never should've been put on the 1st line before Samonov or Perezhogin.

It's all about earning your dues, Samonov is a 7year NHL veteran who just came of the final round of the playoffs, scoring 15pts in 24 games.
I'd partly agree with samsonov. I did say the day he was signed that he should not be playing with kovalev as both players were playing basically the same style. However I can also understand why Carbo chose to go with Latendresse. It's not like Carbo was taking that decision alone anyway and last I checked, that Jarvis guy has a hell of alot of experience behind the bench.

When that's said and done though, being disapointed in the decision should not stop you from playing well. It should be the opposite actually, prove your coach that you should have been the one taking that spot.

Players will need to remember that in a world with a salary cap, sitting on your ass because you "don't like the coach's decision" is a bad career move.

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02-09-2007, 05:38 PM
  #116
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Carbonneau is the Greatest Coach in the World

Just thought we could use a break from the "Carbonneau sucks" threads and their constant idiotic assumptions of how he's broken Koivu's heart by benching his lover Rivet or how his line combinations are worse than the hockey fans' who've never even played rec hockey once in their lives.

Seriously, I'm not even going to make an argument on this because I've already made it in about 10 Carbo sucks threads. I just thought that since I'm one of the apparent few who think he's doing a good job (amazing, actually) that I'd give him a "Carbonneau doesn't suck" thread.

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Old
02-09-2007, 05:40 PM
  #117
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carbo is a poor mario tremblay

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02-09-2007, 05:41 PM
  #118
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For Carbonneau to be a more effective coach, he needs a motivator as an assistant. A "player's coach", if you will. I doubt any of Jarvis, Melanson, or Muller have those particular skills.

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02-09-2007, 05:42 PM
  #119
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I like Carbo but lately I have seriously doubted his moves.

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02-09-2007, 05:48 PM
  #120
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i wish he would stop making faces after penalty calls... please guy i don't like that the refs have a hate on for us... i appreciate the fire and desire to win but gainey was so cool. there is something to be said for this approach. this shows people you are in control and not the referees.

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02-09-2007, 05:49 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habs911 View Post
I like Carbo but lately I have seriously doubted his moves.
It's normal really. Prepare yourself as much as you want, coaching in the NHL is not an easy job. Especially when it gets rough in a city where the media ( and the fans ) go crazy for every little details.

Just like with any rookie, let's give him a few chances. One year is just not enough to judge a coach's work.

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02-09-2007, 05:50 PM
  #122
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carbo is a poor mario tremblay
and you are a broken record

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02-09-2007, 05:53 PM
  #123
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He might not be yet but he will be right after he's fired and hired by some other team.

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02-09-2007, 05:53 PM
  #124
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You're all broken records.

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02-09-2007, 05:54 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Azalichio View Post
It's normal really. Prepare yourself as much as you want, coaching in the NHL is not an easy job. Especially when it gets rough in a city where the media ( and the fans ) go crazy for every little details.

Just like with any rookie, let's give him a few chances. One year is just not enough to judge a coach's work.
Very true. Denis Savard isn't gonna get the hook this season (or next) so let's give Carbo some time to refine his abilities.

I mean, I expect a 2nd round playoff run this season, but realistically never expected more than that. I have faith that we'll get past the first round.

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