that's a good point but don't you think his intangiables... forechecking and leadership... not to mention his demand... make him a bit of a hot commodity
if the going rate for nagy is an up and coming palyer and a high pick i expect it's more for doan..
You're right, but even that price for Nagy is way too high, considering he's perennially injured and even then has never broken 30 goals.
Top wingers on bottom teams are a risky venture, in my opinion.
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Doan is way more valuable than Ryder. The only thing Ryder has on Doan is goal scoring, besides that, I'd take Doan in every other aspect.
I know Carbonneau would love a player like Doan too.
Doan is a UFA, that incredibly decreases his value. Ryder is a RFA, who will get 1/2 of Doan's salary if he's lucky.
If Doan were an RFA, he'd have much more value than Ryder...But Ryder gives Phoenix a 30 goal scorer for years to come. Hence the trade is very fair, if not in Phoenix' favor, since MTL won't have the money to re-sign Doan.
So much going down today. I am hearing that Shane Doan may want a "new start" and it was confirmed to me by two sources in the last hour that Calgary (e3-4) is the most likely place for Doan. Calgary is scary if they add Doan in my opinion. Montreal is also on the radar for Doan, with one Montreal source saying that "Doan, if available jumps to number two on our wish list."
Please be true. Conroy has already gone to the Flames so they have addressed their center concern. It's very possible they still want him but if not; advantage Habs
Even then , the difference is not important enough to be a factor
well said, besides, I don't know why people are saying Ryder is a proven 30 goals scorer...he did it once and will not repeat it this year either, unless some miracle happens.
oh and doan has 10 less games this season and 4 more goals and one less point
Again the difference is that Doan is a UFA and Ryder is an RFA...What is it that you people don't get? Ryder is at least of value as Doan to a team like Phoenix. They're rebuilding and they need players to come in and score for years to come...Ryder is a guy who can do that. Doan will likely not re-sign with Phoenix.
Doan is a UFA, that incredibly decreases his value.
FOR THE LAST TIME. NO IT DOESN'T.
My god. I swear sometimes...
Anyways. Doan brings a hell of a lot more to the table than offense. Anybody who watches him should know that. He is, by far and away, one of the best "playoff" guys available this deadline.
Barnett will be asking for Carey Price. I guarantee it. Whether or not he gets him, is another story. But the Coyotes are not in a position where they have to deal Doan anyways. He has expressed extreme willingness to stay.
well said, besides, I don't know why people are saying Ryder is a proven 30 goals scorer...he did it once and will not repeat it this year either, unless some miracle happens.
LOL, you're so right...the only thing that he has proven is that he's a streaky goal scorer...
Again the difference is that Doan is a UFA and Ryder is an RFA...What is it that you people don't get? Ryder is at least of value as Doan to a team like Phoenix. They're rebuilding and they need players to come in and score for years to come...Ryder is a guy who can do that. Doan will likely not re-sign with Phoenix.
umm dont take out on me
i understand the UFA vs the RFA....i was just bringing up stats for those ppl saying Doan is not as good a goal scorer as ryder..
relax relax...
Stop posting in this thread. You don't know what you are talking about. Do I have to go grab the Arizona Republic article where Doan said he would prefer to stay because of his family? eh? EH?
Stop posting in this thread. You don't know what you are talking about. Do I have to go grab the Arizona Republic article where Doan said he would prefer to stay because of his family? eh? EH?
I've heard that several times but hasn't it crossed your mind that Doan has said this so that a team would offer him more money than Phoenix?
Ryder is at least of value as Doan to a team like Phoenix. They're rebuilding and they need players to come in and score for years to come...Ryder is a guy who can do that. Doan will likely not re-sign with Phoenix.
Sorry to jump on your board dude but the parts of your post above are just wrong. Ryder could join the Yotes and score 30 goals per year for the next 10 and will still never be close to as important to the team as Doan who is an original Jet/Coyote, team captain, emotional leader, best player, face of the franchise. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
As for Ryder being a good return, no. He is a UFA himself after next year and has less chance resigning with Phoenix then than Doan has this year.
Their's such a thing as a RENTAL player, which doesn't bring as much as a player who is RFA. Doan's value is not more than Ryder's. I'll explain it to you in simple terms, since you seem like a simple guy.
Doan's value to a Playoff team = Ryder's value to a non-playoff team.
Sorry to jump on your board dude but the parts of your post above are just wrong. Ryder could join the Yotes and score 30 goals per year for the next 10 and will still never be close to as important to the team as Doan who is an original Jet/Coyote, team capital, emotional leader, best player, face of the franchise.
To say otherwise is ridiculous.
As for Ryder being a good return, no. He is a UFA himself after next year and has less chance resigning with Phoenix then than Doan has this year.
Ryder is a RFA after this season. They can sign him for 3-4 years or whatever they please.
And...if you're so sure that Doan is 100% going to re-sign with Phoenix (which I don't believe, regardless of what he says) then it's a sure-fire win for Phoenix isn't it?
Stop posting in this thread. You don't know what you are talking about. Do I have to go grab the Arizona Republic article where Doan said he would prefer to stay because of his family? eh? EH?
You'll be right as soon as Doan signs. So, if I get it, you want Shabutie, guy who posts on Habs board, to stop posting on this thread on Habs board, because you, Coyotes fan, doesn't agree with, or like what he's saying ? Hmm, think I'll go next door, pick up the remote and change chanels.
Doan will be interesting, both as a deal and to see the result. I like Doan, always have and always thought he should be on the National teams. I was a little bit disapointed in his offense though, thought he had a bit more pure offense to him.
So, to me, he's a lot like Trevor Linden. Heckuva player, leader, gritty, like the Habs need, but for 20 games and the po's, what would you pay ? Ryder ? Can we afford to score less ? Price, wouldn't consider it.
I think Gainey has 1 or 2 players in mind from Hamilton, maybe Kostitsyn [hope not],Halak,Danis, and a 1st to offer around. Ryder/Perezhogin could be shopped,but goals have to be coming back.
Ryder is a RFA after this season. They can sign him for 3-4 years or whatever they please.
And...if you're so sure that Doan is 100% going to re-sign with Phoenix (which I don't believe, regardless of what he says) then it's a sure-fire win for Phoenix isn't it?
No it isn't. Only one year guaranteed of Ryder is not as good a return as the Coyotes need to get to maximize the one time they get to trade a player of Doan's stature.
If Ryder is as good as every is trying to let on, why would the Habs trade im? Goal scoring has been their biggest problem of late.
By the way, I will continue to discuss this with you since you're rational. The guy that just learned the word "punk" is no longer showing up on my screen.
Did someone can put it everywhere, so fans of non hockey city like Phoenix can try to learn a little bit before talking...
RFA! Sign him 2-3-4 years he'll not be UFA...
Phoenix isn't Toronto, we all know that. Do you think though,that maybe if a hockey fan cares enough about the sport to spend time here arguing player values, that he just may know a few things ? You make the rest of look bad kid.
Anyways. Doan brings a hell of a lot more to the table than offense. Anybody who watches him should know that. He is, by far and away, one of the best "playoff" guys available this deadline.
Barnett will be asking for Carey Price. I guarantee it. Whether or not he gets him, is another story. But the Coyotes are not in a position where they have to deal Doan anyways. He has expressed extreme willingness to stay.
How is Doan a great "playoff" guy? There have got to be at least 5, if not 10, better playoff performers than Doan on the market.
Doan may be an impending UFA but I'd love to have him even if it meant parting with a conditional pick and Ryder. Michael may score more out in the desert but he'll always be a minus player. Perreault would be like -30 on our team right now but in Phoenix he isn't pressured into being more responsible defensively so he pots his goals and fools people to no end with the one-dimensional aspects of his game. Doan's offense ain't much I know but people, he will do more for us than Nagy. Nagy is another speedy yet spineless guy and we have too much of both.
We need a gritty guy who can create lanes for the smaller guys and do the dirty work so many are unwilling or uncapable of doing. We have guys like Doan but they do 3rd/4th line work and aren't reliable enough as top line player. So Doan would be a nice fit and I sure hope all Habs fans see that although scoring is what we need, acquiring anything but a prolific one will do nothing for us (so not Nagy, not Zherdev, not anybody with a soft mentality will improve our team. They'll only muddy up the waters even further.
How is Doan a great "playoff" guy? There have got to be at least 5, if not 10, better playoff performers than Doan on the market.
I'll admit he doesn't have the raw NHL stats, but he has proven himself under immense pressure on the international stage. I guess where I was going with it was; who do you want more in the trenches? A 6'3 surly power forward who will fight, hit, and score or a sugar plumb fairy like Datsyuk? (random example)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabutie
Ryder, being an RFA cannot "cash in on the open market" cuz No GM will overpay to get him AND have to give top picks in order to overpay for him...He's not a player that warrants that. Phoenix could easily resign him to a 3-4 year 2.5m-3m deal...Which is under value for a 30 goal scorer.
We would qualify him, he would play one under productive crappy year, and run off the next. You take me for a fool, but I just don't want your Ryder, mmk?
No it isn't. Only one year guaranteed of Ryder is not as good a return as the Coyotes need to get to maximize the one time they get to trade a player of Doan's stature.
If Ryder is as good as every is trying to let on, why would the Habs trade im? Goal scoring has been their biggest problem of late.
By the way, I will continue to discuss this with you since you're rational. The guy that just learned the word "punk" is no longer showing up on my screen.
How do you figure this? I think you might have a misconception of Ryder's contract.
No it isn't. Only one year guaranteed of Ryder is not as good a return as the Coyotes need to get to maximize the one time they get to trade a player of Doan's stature.
If Ryder is as good as every is trying to let on, why would the Habs trade im? Goal scoring has been their biggest problem of late.
By the way, I will continue to discuss this with you since you're rational. The guy that just learned the word "punk" is no longer showing up on my screen.
AY, to me the idea of the rental is to bolster,not switch. Ryder has holes in his game, but he's a streaky scorer. He's probably the type that some GM's think, 'if I put him with my playmaking C, he'll light it up.' He could be, I'm not sure.
Just swapping Ryder/Doan probably improves Mtl, but not enough offense to justify trading 20 games for 1 year +. Anyways, you feel it doesn't adress Pho. needs anyways so....
I guess we can argue value, but to me, it's not a fit. Has to be a goalie prospect.
