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Old
02-05-2014, 12:00 AM
  #226
tigervixxxen
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Why did the Islanders ever make that deal? They assumed Vanek would re-sign after a Cup run?

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02-05-2014, 12:09 AM
  #227
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No way will Minn give anything of value. He either wants to play there in which case they get him without giving up any assets or he doesn't and they don't losing anything.


Snow should just keep the pick and fight to the death next year. You can't give up this years pick, it would be sending the wrong message to fans/players.

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02-05-2014, 12:46 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
Just give up this year's pick. It will be probably higher anyway, in worse draft.
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Yeah, they can't afford to trade out of the first round in 2015. Especially when there's a chance they could actually still be a very bad team.
When GMs have to give up a pick, they almost always delay it as much as possible, just like Lamoriello did with NJ's forfeited pick. I bet Snow keeps this year's pick and gives up next year's pick.

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02-05-2014, 12:31 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Tigervixxen View Post
Why did the Islanders ever make that deal? They assumed Vanek would re-sign after a Cup run?
Sometimes you make risks with trades, so I don't really mind what Snow did. Doing it for a team that just left rebuilding mode and made the playoffs one time in how many x number of years is pretty strange to me. I really hope Avs do not make this type of trade except for a defenseman who can ultimately make a difference here.

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02-05-2014, 02:18 PM
  #230
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Snow had a miserable offseason. Failed to secure Cory Schneider with Nino Niederreiter, and then inexplicably flipped Niederreiter (who may yet be a star) for Cal effin' Clutterbuck.

As I've said before, you sacrifice skill for grit, you're asking for trouble.

I don't know if he also failed to sign any decent free agents, but his track record there is pretty bad. No one wants to play for him.

When he talked at the Vanek presser, he wanted to make more trades to supplement a defense and goaltending he knew wasn't up to snuff. But he horribly miscalculated the effect the lowered cap would have on the trade market. Reportedly he's been burning up the phone lines for naught.

And frankly, Snow's swung and missed too often when it comes to head coaches.

I think he's a good guy and a far-better-than-expected GM. But he's taken the Isles as far as he can. Someone who can actually get trades done and get agents to sit down at the negotiation table. Snow seemingly can't do either of those effectively.

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02-07-2014, 09:49 AM
  #231
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Apparently Viktor Arvidsson is draft eligiblefor one more year. Might be a 2nd-3rd rounder like Janmark to Detroit last year.

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02-07-2014, 08:36 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Snow had a miserable offseason. Failed to secure Cory Schneider with Nino Niederreiter, and then inexplicably flipped Niederreiter (who may yet be a star) for Cal effin' Clutterbuck.

As I've said before, you sacrifice skill for grit, you're asking for trouble.

I don't know if he also failed to sign any decent free agents, but his track record there is pretty bad. No one wants to play for him.

When he talked at the Vanek presser, he wanted to make more trades to supplement a defense and goaltending he knew wasn't up to snuff. But he horribly miscalculated the effect the lowered cap would have on the trade market. Reportedly he's been burning up the phone lines for naught.

And frankly, Snow's swung and missed too often when it comes to head coaches.

I think he's a good guy and a far-better-than-expected GM. But he's taken the Isles as far as he can. Someone who can actually get trades done and get agents to sit down at the negotiation table. Snow seemingly can't do either of those effectively.

I think Streit would have been good on the Avs.

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02-07-2014, 08:59 PM
  #233
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I think Streit would have been good on the Avs.
Unfortunately, Philly signed him to a dumb contract. Of course that's nothing new.

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02-07-2014, 09:08 PM
  #234
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Unfortunately, Philly signed him to a dumb contract. Of course that's nothing new.
There was a lot of that happening last summer. And all of this while teams were eating a lot of money on the early termination of contracts.

It's all coming back to me now. I was actually glad the Avs didn't enter into it even though I liked Streits game.

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02-07-2014, 09:13 PM
  #235
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Btw, this Julius Honka dude seems pretty good also. Apparently he has ah huge slap shot. I you tubed him hoping to see him move with the puck and pulled up a 10 minute video of him ripping howitzers. I thought puck movement was supposed to be the best part of his game. Based on what I remember last year, he's kind of a poor mans Pullock.

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02-07-2014, 09:36 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by nanzenkills View Post
When GMs have to give up a pick, they almost always delay it as much as possible, just like Lamoriello did with NJ's forfeited pick. I bet Snow keeps this year's pick and gives up next year's pick.
NJ was so utterly stupid not to forfeit the pick when it was at #29 overall. Pure hubris at work there. It's a shame they're not tanking it this year.

But yeah, I think you have a point. In any event, Garth probably should protect this year's pick and then do everything possible to make certain the 2015 pick isn't too high.

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02-08-2014, 05:08 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
NJ was so utterly stupid not to forfeit the pick when it was at #29 overall. Pure hubris at work there. It's a shame they're not tanking it this year.
Yeah, and then they drafted Matteau.

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02-11-2014, 09:34 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
NJ was so utterly stupid not to forfeit the pick when it was at #29 overall. Pure hubris at work there. It's a shame they're not tanking it this year.

But yeah, I think you have a point. In any event, Garth probably should protect this year's pick and then do everything possible to make certain the 2015 pick isn't too high.
It's not hubris. The conventional wisdom is that the future pick is always worth less than the present day pick, because you are also buying whatever development time that exists between the two picks. Right or wrong, and sometimes I think it is wrong, that is the prevailing wisdom among GMs with first round picks.

I do agree with you that a 29th overall pick in a weaker draft would be the right first rounder to give up, unless you honestly think you have a Cup contender on your hands.

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02-11-2014, 09:56 PM
  #239
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I would be surprised if Lamoriello's arrogance didn't play a role in refusing to give up the 29th pick.

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02-11-2014, 11:13 PM
  #240
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I was the same way guys, but Matteau was a complete force in WJC's. I know that for 1 Perry there are 9 Zach Kassians', but Stefan definitely has solid potential in the future. Yes, it is still stupid that they decided to draft at 29th overall, but it won't look that bad once Matteau plays in the NHL.

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02-12-2014, 08:44 AM
  #241
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So when do you think Brendan Lemieux will go? And how's his game?

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02-12-2014, 08:57 AM
  #242
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I was the same way guys, but Matteau was a complete force in WJC's. I know that for 1 Perry there are 9 Zach Kassians', but Stefan definitely has solid potential in the future. Yes, it is still stupid that they decided to draft at 29th overall, but it won't look that bad once Matteau plays in the NHL.
This is exactly how I feel. Matteau is actually a pretty decent player and has enough talent to make an impact in the NHL. One thing to remember during this is that they were still trying to woo Parise to stay, and they needed to show that they still had a bright future. Having the NHL take away that year's 1st round pick would have been a signal that they expected to be worse. I don't agree with that thinking, but I guarantee that wooing Parise played a huge role in keeping that pick.

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02-12-2014, 12:09 PM
  #243
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This is exactly how I feel. Matteau is actually a pretty decent player and has enough talent to make an impact in the NHL. One thing to remember during this is that they were still trying to woo Parise to stay, and they needed to show that they still had a bright future. Having the NHL take away that year's 1st round pick would have been a signal that they expected to be worse. I don't agree with that thinking, but I guarantee that wooing Parise played a huge role in keeping that pick.
That's an interesting theory, but I don't buy it. I think it was pure arrogance, plain and simple. There was a player they thought would be available at 29, probably Subban or someone. When that player wasn't available, they took Matteau, a headcase who walked out on the junior team his old man works for.

Parise was gone the very moment they traded for Kovalchuk and threw a cap-dodging contract at him.

In any case, regardless of what their line of thought was, I have zero sympathy for the Devils (pun intended) in this case.

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02-13-2014, 05:25 PM
  #244
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The newest NHL.com mock drafts are up. Kimelman and Morreale have us taking Goldobin, and Hoffner has us taking Kempe... passing on Fabbri in all 3. I'm not sure Pracey would allow that to happen.

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02-13-2014, 06:02 PM
  #245
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The newest NHL.com mock drafts are up. Kimelman and Morreale have us taking Goldobin, and Hoffner has us taking Kempe... passing on Fabbri in all 3. I'm not sure Pracey would allow that to happen.
So a russian, or a player in the Swedish Jr League. Can't see that happening.

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02-13-2014, 06:06 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
The newest NHL.com mock drafts are up. Kimelman and Morreale have us taking Goldobin, and Hoffner has us taking Kempe... passing on Fabbri in all 3. I'm not sure Pracey would allow that to happen.
You really think Fabbri's the guy? I like him, but I also like Kempe, from what I have seen. But I agree that Colorado taking a European playing outside of NA seems really unlikely in the first round.

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02-13-2014, 06:48 PM
  #247
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So when do you think Brendan Lemieux will go? And how's his game?
Plays just like his father, insanely competitive. Prone to take stupid penalties, definitely will be a more goal scoring version of Steve Downie.

Some scouts have in the late first round, which isn't out of the question.

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02-14-2014, 08:49 AM
  #248
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You really think Fabbri's the guy? I like him, but I also like Kempe, from what I have seen. But I agree that Colorado taking a European playing outside of NA seems really unlikely in the first round.
If the draft pick is a forward I do... He fits everything Pracey seems to look for perfectly. There are other forwards that I would probably want, but I think Fabbri would be the guy.

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02-14-2014, 10:29 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by nanzenkills View Post
It's not hubris. The conventional wisdom is that the future pick is always worth less than the present day pick, because you are also buying whatever development time that exists between the two picks. Right or wrong, and sometimes I think it is wrong, that is the prevailing wisdom among GMs with first round picks.

I do agree with you that a 29th overall pick in a weaker draft would be the right first rounder to give up, unless you honestly think you have a Cup contender on your hands.
No. It was. There was no wisdom--conventional or otherwise--about it. There's only one way that pick would've been lower. The chances future picks would've been higher is astronomical. I will agree that the "conventional wisdom" that drives most GMs is maddening at times. A lot of them are horribly shortsighted.

They just didn't want to give it up. Maybe a mix of hubris and stubbornness since they probably felt rather indignant about being made into an example about how not to circumvent the cap. But there was no logic and certainly no justification behind not giving up the 29th overall pick.

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02-14-2014, 03:31 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
The newest NHL.com mock drafts are up. Kimelman and Morreale have us taking Goldobin, and Hoffner has us taking Kempe... passing on Fabbri in all 3. I'm not sure Pracey would allow that to happen.
Is Goldengoblin any good?

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