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Old
02-14-2014, 04:37 PM
  #251
henchman24
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Originally Posted by Averick View Post
Is Goldengoblin any good?
I'm not a huge stats guy... but: #5th in the OHL in scoring, #13 in PPG, #9 in goals, #12 in assists... leading his team by 18 points (over DeAngelo who is an amazing PMD) and by 21 points over the next forward. This is on the worst team in the OHL. Yeah he is good.

He needs to get stronger and actually care about playing in the defensive zone, but his offensive skills are really good. His release is one of the best in the draft IMO.

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02-14-2014, 05:34 PM
  #252
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You guys hear about DeAngelo getting suspended? Wonder how that will affect his draft position.

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02-14-2014, 05:45 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Tigervixxen View Post
You guys hear about DeAngelo getting suspended? Wonder how that will affect his draft position.
It will hurt it big time IMO. This is his 2nd suspension for the abuse/harassment rule this season. He was a 12-20 pick before, and now will be lucky to be picked in the first 2 rounds IMO.

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02-14-2014, 05:58 PM
  #254
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They need to stock up on Jamie McGinn-type players this draft and follow the Chicago model of drafting players with solid 2-way play and size that can step in to depth roles in the coming years.

Our top-6 is already more than set, we need more depth guys with more potential and skill than Malone and Heard to play in the bottom-six and push out the Mitchells and the Cliches and the this year's McLeod. Condon might be one of those guys.

Maybe it's just me but I feel like there are way too many tweener and/or boom-or-bust players in our forward prospect pool. It's time to start drafting more safely.

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02-14-2014, 06:01 PM
  #255
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You guys think going to this draft would be worthwhile? There's a 50/50 shot I go on vacation instead, but if not, anyone been to a draft before and enjoyed it? We're not exactly in a position to get a great player, but so what. It's an all day event now anyways.

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02-14-2014, 06:03 PM
  #256
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I'd totally go to one if I could, would be a very cool experience. Maybe we'll even have a first. Even if it's not high would still be fun to watch the guy get picked.

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02-14-2014, 06:32 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
It will hurt it big time IMO. This is his 2nd suspension for the abuse/harassment rule this season. He was a 12-20 pick before, and now will be lucky to be picked in the first 2 rounds IMO.
Surprisingly a lot of scouts are really stupid when it comes to present time, a reason why MacKinnon went over Jones in a 4 game tournament, LOL.

If he did this before the draft then I would agree with you, but there is alot of time before now and draft. I still think he will be a top 2 round player.

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02-14-2014, 06:43 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Surprisingly a lot of scouts are really stupid when it comes to present time, a reason why MacKinnon went over Jones in a 4 game tournament, LOL.

If he did this before the draft then I would agree with you, but there is alot of time before now and draft. I still think he will be a top 2 round player.
Good thing this isn't baseless.

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02-14-2014, 06:46 PM
  #259
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Thank god for 4 game tournaments.

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02-14-2014, 06:53 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigervixxen View Post
Thank god for 4 game tournaments.
Sorry, but this is stupid. How can you already judge Jones after 50ish games in the NHL when defensemen take the longest to development? I have highest respect for our scouting team, I am VERY sure Pracey and Co. went over the whole season than just four stupid games like other scouts (McKenzie's Rankings) probably did.

Sorry D2M, I don't argue about Jones with you anymore.

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02-14-2014, 06:57 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Sorry, but this is stupid. How can you already judge Jones after 50ish games in the NHL when defensemen take the longest to development? I have highest respect for our scouting team, I am VERY sure Pracey and Co. went over the whole season than just four stupid games like other scouts (McKenzie's Rankings) probably did.

Sorry D2M, I don't argue about Jones with you anymore.
Pretty sure she was kidding.

It's not arguing when I'm right. Really tho I doubt those 4 games meant much in terms of who they're drafting for the next 15 years.

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02-14-2014, 07:15 PM
  #262
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Of course I'm not suggesting teams make their decisions based on 4 games. I'm just saying I'm glad we got MacKinnon, nothing against Jones.

It seemed clear the organization didn't want to take a defenseman that high, so it's all probably moot anyway.

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02-15-2014, 02:59 AM
  #263
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Haven't searched this thread yet, no time on VDay, but was reading a bit about Alex Tuch. Seems like the kind of sizable winger I'd like to see the Avs go for early if they keep their pick. Any of our board's scouts have a good take on him?

Also Roland McKeown is all over the mock draft boards (anywhere from 7-20s). Where will he really wind up. Seems like a great RH D prospect to fit the 2nd/3rd pairing eventually behind EJ and in the mix with Barrie/Elliott.

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02-15-2014, 03:43 AM
  #264
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Roland McKeown would be a siiiiick pick. Doubt he falls to us.

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02-15-2014, 03:14 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
No. It was. There was no wisdom--conventional or otherwise--about it. There's only one way that pick would've been lower. The chances future picks would've been higher is astronomical. I will agree that the "conventional wisdom" that drives most GMs is maddening at times. A lot of them are horribly shortsighted.

They just didn't want to give it up. Maybe a mix of hubris and stubbornness since they probably felt rather indignant about being made into an example about how not to circumvent the cap. But there was no logic and certainly no justification behind not giving up the 29th overall pick.
I still think the extra development time was the key reason for them to keep that pick. I'm sure that the Devils were well aware that the draft pick in 2014 would likely be in a better position than in 2012, but they most likely expected to stay competitive so that it would still fall in the bottom half of the first round. That being the case, I do think that 2 years of development time is worth 10-14 spots in a weak draft.

Of course, if the pick ends up being top 10, then they end up losing. But if the pick is in the second half of the draft, then personally, I think it was the right decision on their part, so long as they are trying to remain competitive and aren't rebuilding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Surprisingly a lot of scouts are really stupid when it comes to present time, a reason why MacKinnon went over Jones in a 4 game tournament, LOL.

If he did this before the draft then I would agree with you, but there is alot of time before now and draft. I still think he will be a top 2 round player.
They way I looked at it was that most of the scouts had those players neck-and-neck with each other, which was why the players' current play would sway the rankings. You don't usually see the rankings changing so much in most years, in that year, I think it was just because the scouts considered MacKinnon and Jones so close to each other.

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02-15-2014, 03:21 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
You guys think going to this draft would be worthwhile? There's a 50/50 shot I go on vacation instead, but if not, anyone been to a draft before and enjoyed it? We're not exactly in a position to get a great player, but so what. It's an all day event now anyways.
I went to the 2010 draft and really enjoyed being there. Even though Colorado didn't pick high (18th) and I disagreed with their selection (I wanted Bjugstad, they took Hishon), it was still a good time watching all the different players go up to the podium.

LOL, there were some Sens fans a couple of rows in front of me who got all pissed off and left when it was announced that the Sens had traded their first rounder for David Rundblad.

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02-15-2014, 03:24 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Tigervixxen View Post
Of course I'm not suggesting teams make their decisions based on 4 games. I'm just saying I'm glad we got MacKinnon, nothing against Jones.

It seemed clear the organization didn't want to take a defenseman that high, so it's all probably moot anyway.
I don't think it was that they didn't want to take a defenseman, I think it's just that they were higher on MacKinnon, Drouin, and Barkov (in that order) than they were on Jones.

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02-15-2014, 03:33 PM
  #268
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Roy said in a recent presser that he felt there was no need to take a defenseman high and wanted them to take a defensemen in the second round. Then he went on to name all the good defensemen taken in the second round. Plus another article from the Montreal media stated that Roy said the scouts eliminated Jones so they focused on the forwards. They were higher on Barkov than Drouin, that was stated in the article as well that they eventually were down to MacKinnon and Barkov. So I just don't think they were ever really looking at Jones and at least in part they preferred to select a forward.

I've seen McKeown pretty consistently lower in the rankings lately, 20 or lower. so it's possible that he's available. Though they might look at a forward this time around.

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02-15-2014, 03:54 PM
  #269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigervixxen View Post
Roy said in a recent presser that he felt there was no need to take a defenseman high and wanted them to take a defensemen in the second round. Then he went on to name all the good defensemen taken in the second round. Plus another article from the Montreal media stated that Roy said the scouts eliminated Jones so they focused on the forwards. They were higher on Barkov than Drouin, that was stated in the article as well that they eventually were down to MacKinnon and Barkov. So I just don't think they were ever really looking at Jones and at least in part they preferred to select a forward.

I've seen McKeown pretty consistently lower in the rankings lately, 20 or lower. so it's possible that he's available. Though they might look at a forward this time around.
That's interesting. I remember one of them (Sakic, I think) going on record saying that they had them ordered MacKinnon, Drouin, Barkov right after the draft. Might have been on a radio show that I read a transcript or summary for.

I definitely agree with you that they didn't want Jones that high. The impression that they gave me with what they had said before the draft wasn't that they didn't want a D-man that high, just that they specifically did not want Jones.

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02-24-2014, 11:04 AM
  #270
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After watching Andreas Englund and Adam Ollas Mattsson a couple of game here in Sweden. I am so high on both for this draft. Perfect 2nd round defenseman to snag. Way better than Linus Arnesson who plays for same team and got picked in the 2nd round last year. Both are left handed defenseman who plays a good allround game with great calm. Anyone else have seen them?

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02-25-2014, 04:35 PM
  #271
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You might have a point Robin, considering Sweden are developing defensemen at a great rate (like Finland with goalers), I would like to draft a Swedish D prospect in the first 3 rounds than a 7th round project like Westlund (who was a good pick FTR).


Here is my top 5 for the Avs to draft. I only decided to choose realistic prospects (from pick 17th+), but this draft is so even in talent level that some prospect might go from 13 to 50.

1. Nikolaj Goldobin, RW [5'11" - 178 lbs] (RUS)
By far the player I want the most, highly talented Russian who can beat anybody with his skill level and vision. Reminds me a lot of Radulov in terms of playing style, frame, and talent. Good skater. Now could be an unrealistic target from Prospects Game.

2. Kevin Fiala, RW [Is either 5'10" - 165lbs or 5'11 - 195 lbs] (SUI)
Another player with a high talent level, but needs a lot of development in terms of frame and physicality. Besides Ho-Sang he is one of the best stickhandlers I have seen for this class. Picture his 5/5 stickhandling with great skating and you get a less physical talented version of MacKinnon.

3. Conner Bleackley, C [6'0 - 200 lbs] (CAN)
Probably the most unrealistic option on this list, Bleackley has the same qualities of Ryan O'Reilly. His offensive ceiling probably isn't as high as our Money Bags, but he could potentially be a consistent 20 goal scorer with along 45-55 points while bring a great two-way game. Future capital material.

4. Joshua Ho-Sang, RW [5'11 - 166lbs] (JAM-CHN-CAN)
Another insanely talented player who perhaps will go late because of his softness, but don't think this is a con. With our offensive depth, we can afford Ho-Sang to develop properly in juniors and AHL. He screams Matt Duchene 2.0 to me, best stickhandler in this draft bar none and has great agility with hockey vision to become an offensive force.

5. Brendon Lemieux, LW [6'0 - 210 lbs (CAN/USA)
Yes, son of Claude this guy doesn't have blood running through his veins, but bull shark testosterone. Insanely competitive player who brings a decent level of skill level as well. To me is a more goal-scoring version of Steve Downie, but brings the same qualities and talent level.

If we include the players who I think might be unrealistic targets, but could fall in the 20s range.
1. Nikolaj Goldobin, RW [Still tops my list]
2. Jake Virtanen, C/LW [Great player powerforward that you always want more out of]
3. Jakub Vrana, RW [Czech forward with great skill level and impressive compete level, also strong for current frame, Above 70% he is gone by 20th]
4. Adrian Kempe, C [Swedish powerforward, above 50% he is gone by 20th]
5. David Pastrnak, LW [2nd of the Czech forwards that was impressive at the WJC, 50/50 chance he is gone by our pick]
6. Kevin Fiala, RW
7. Conner Bleackley, C [Above 50% he is gone by 20th]
8. Roland McKeown, D [Solid two-way defenseman with solid offensive talent, 60% he is gone by 20th]

The players I want to avoid with our 1st rounder
- Nikita Sherbak: Great player, but not 1st round potential. Very solid 2nd rounder.
- Alex Tuch: Screams 3rd line grinder
- Sonny Milano: Too much of a high risk project
- Aaron Irving: Another great player who is not 1st round potential. Solid 2nd round to 3rd round.
- Robbie Fabbri: Another great player for the Love of God do not draft in the 1st round Pracey.
- Daniel Audette: Too small, even for the Q.
- Eric Cornel: Just don't.

The players I would like to target in the later rounds
- Adam Olias Mattson, D [Djurgarden]
- Brayden Point, C [Moose Jaw]
- Vladimir Tkachev, LW [Moncton] (Likely will be a high 2nd rounder)
- Keegan Iverson, RW [Portland]
- Austin Poganski, RW [Tri-City]
- Dysin Mayo, D [Edmonton]
- Nelson Nogier, D [Saskatoon] (High raising prospect, impressive player, Captain material)
- Reid Gardiner, F [Prince Albert]
- Brandon Prophet, D [Saginaw]

Because of the talent level is so close between 1st and 2nd rounds, this is one draft I wouldn't mind pulling a Red Wings; trading out of the 1st round and getting a high 2nd and perhaps a 3rd/4th as well. So Avs would have have,

- High 2nd
- Our 2nd
- Their 3rd
- Our 3rd
- Toronto's 4th
- Our 4th
- Our 5th
- Our 6th
- Our 7th


Last edited by S E P H: 02-25-2014 at 04:42 PM.
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02-25-2014, 04:55 PM
  #272
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You might have a point Robin, considering Sweden are developing defensemen at a great rate (like Finland with goalers), I would like to draft a Swedish D prospect in the first 3 rounds than a 7th round project like Westlund (who was a good pick FTR).


Here is my top 5 for the Avs to draft. I only decided to choose realistic prospects (from pick 17th+), but this draft is so even in talent level that some prospect might go from 13 to 50.

1. Nikolaj Goldobin, RW [5'11" - 178 lbs] (RUS)
By far the player I want the most, highly talented Russian who can beat anybody with his skill level and vision. Reminds me a lot of Radulov in terms of playing style, frame, and talent. Good skater. Now could be an unrealistic target from Prospects Game.

2. Kevin Fiala, RW [Is either 5'10" - 165lbs or 5'11 - 195 lbs] (SUI)
Another player with a high talent level, but needs a lot of development in terms of frame and physicality. Besides Ho-Sang he is one of the best stickhandlers I have seen for this class. Picture his 5/5 stickhandling with great skating and you get a less physical talented version of MacKinnon.

3. Conner Bleackley, C [6'0 - 200 lbs] (CAN)
Probably the most unrealistic option on this list, Bleackley has the same qualities of Ryan O'Reilly. His offensive ceiling probably isn't as high as our Money Bags, but he could potentially be a consistent 20 goal scorer with along 45-55 points while bring a great two-way game. Future capital material.

4. Joshua Ho-Sang, RW [5'11 - 166lbs] (JAM-CHN-CAN)
Another insanely talented player who perhaps will go late because of his softness, but don't think this is a con. With our offensive depth, we can afford Ho-Sang to develop properly in juniors and AHL. He screams Matt Duchene 2.0 to me, best stickhandler in this draft bar none and has great agility with hockey vision to become an offensive force.

5. Brendon Lemieux, LW [6'0 - 210 lbs (CAN/USA)
Yes, son of Claude this guy doesn't have blood running through his veins, but bull shark testosterone. Insanely competitive player who brings a decent level of skill level as well. To me is a more goal-scoring version of Steve Downie, but brings the same qualities and talent level.

If we include the players who I think might be unrealistic targets, but could fall in the 20s range.
1. Nikolaj Goldobin, RW [Still tops my list]
2. Jake Virtanen, C/LW [Great player powerforward that you always want more out of]
3. Jakub Vrana, RW [Czech forward with great skill level and impressive compete level, also strong for current frame, Above 70% he is gone by 20th]
4. Adrian Kempe, C [Swedish powerforward, above 50% he is gone by 20th]
5. David Pastrnak, LW [2nd of the Czech forwards that was impressive at the WJC, 50/50 chance he is gone by our pick]
6. Kevin Fiala, RW
7. Conner Bleackley, C [Above 50% he is gone by 20th]
8. Roland McKeown, D [Solid two-way defenseman with solid offensive talent, 60% he is gone by 20th]

The players I want to avoid with our 1st rounder
- Nikita Sherbak: Great player, but not 1st round potential. Very solid 2nd rounder.
- Alex Tuch: Screams 3rd line grinder
- Sonny Milano: Too much of a high risk project
- Aaron Irving: Another great player who is not 1st round potential. Solid 2nd round to 3rd round.
- Robbie Fabbri: Another great player for the Love of God do not draft in the 1st round Pracey.
- Daniel Audette: Too small, even for the Q.
- Eric Cornel: Just don't.

The players I would like to target in the later rounds
- Adam Olias Mattson, D [Djurgarden]
- Brayden Point, C [Moose Jaw]
- Vladimir Tkachev, LW [Moncton] (Likely will be a high 2nd rounder)
- Keegan Iverson, RW [Portland]
- Austin Poganski, RW [Tri-City]
- Dysin Mayo, D [Edmonton]
- Nelson Nogier, D [Saskatoon] (High raising prospect, impressive player, Captain material)
- Reid Gardiner, F [Prince Albert]
- Brandon Prophet, D [Saginaw]

Because of the talent level is so close between 1st and 2nd rounds, this is one draft I wouldn't mind pulling a Red Wings; trading out of the 1st round and getting a high 2nd and perhaps a 3rd/4th as well. So Avs would have have,

- High 2nd
- Our 2nd
- Their 3rd
- Our 3rd
- Toronto's 4th
- Our 4th
- Our 5th
- Our 6th
- Our 7th
I like your list. Goldobin has been great, and I expect him to be able to score at the NHL level, but I have to admit that the Russian factor does scare me on a 1st round pick. I don't know enough about Goldobin's personality to know if I'm justified in my feeling though. I still wouldn't be opposed to taking him if Pracey thinks he's the right guy.

Isn't Fiala a pretty physical player though? My impression of him from the WJC was that he is. I definitely like him as well.

Ho-Sang is the one player on your list that I want nothing to do with. His skill level is amazing, but he just doesn't seem like he'll be a great team guy. I'd think Patrick will steer clear of him.

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02-25-2014, 04:55 PM
  #273
henchman24
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- Robbie Fabbri: Another great player for the Love of God do not draft in the 1st round Pracey.

Because of the talent level is so close between 1st and 2nd rounds, this is one draft I wouldn't mind pulling a Red Wings; trading out of the 1st round and getting a high 2nd and perhaps a 3rd/4th as well. So Avs would have have,
Be prepared to be disappointed, while I won't be totally on board with the pick... Fabbri is a Pracey player to the letter.

Totally agree, it is splitting hairs from mid 1st up to even the early 3rd that having as many picks as possible in that range would give more chances to find the few gems in that range.

My hope for the draft is that the Avs draft a forward with size in the first two rounds, and possibly take an overaged player or two in the 4th-6th round so they can add some immediate depth. Lots of possibilites, but somebody like a Colby Cave, Nikita Tryamkin (really liked him at the world juniors), Kurt Etchegary, Hunter Smith, etc. Just one or two of those players that can step into Lake Erie and provide some immediate depth. Then if you catch lightning in a bottle, great! But if you don't you only wasted an extra pick.


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02-25-2014, 04:59 PM
  #274
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Be prepared to be disappointed, while I won't be totally on board with the pick... Fabbri is a Pracey player to the letter.

Totally agree, it is splitting hairs from mid 1st up to even the early 3rd that having as many picks as possible in that range would give more chances to find the few gems in that range.
If they took Hishon 18th overall in 2010, they could easily take Fabbri this year. Not sure if I'll like the pick, I suppose it will depend who is still on the board at that point.

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02-25-2014, 06:59 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post

5. Brendon Lemieux, LW [6'0 - 210 lbs (CAN/USA)
Yes, son of Claude this guy doesn't have blood running through his veins, but bull shark testosterone. Insanely competitive player who brings a decent level of skill level as well. To me is a more goal-scoring version of Steve Downie, but brings the same qualities and talent level.


Don't get suckered in by the name, Lemieux is a 2nd to early 3rd pick in my book. You're right his compete is through the roof but skills are a little lacking he gets a lot of his points by being stronger than most junior players.

I would be disappointed if we took him in the first round but I'd be fine with him in the 2nd or 3rd round.

This draft needs to be focused on skill players. We have plenty of d prospects, goalie prospects and 3rd/4th line prospects. We are lacking in the skilled wingers prospects and this needs to be addressed with at least 3 or 4 picks this year. Obviously if a player falls in the first rd you take BPA but after that we kind of need the focus on the skill wingers.

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