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The saddest stat of all...

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Old
02-09-2007, 08:36 PM
  #1
Lafontaine
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The saddest stat of all...

I am a curse. The year I was born was 1979; the last time Guy Lafleur ever placed in the top 10 of the league for scoring.

The other day I saw someone lament that Montreal never manages to find a superstar and seems cursed to never again hold the rights to a Guy Lafleur or Sydney Crosby type, explosive offensive player.

I couldn't resist checking the stat history books on this one. Can you believe that since Guy Lafleur scored 125 points in 1979 (28 years ago), only ONE Canadiens player has EVER placed top 10 in scoring (Mats Naslund in 1985).

Now that is a sorry-*** stat!

How that has been so consistent for nearly three straight decades is beyond me.

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Old
02-09-2007, 08:41 PM
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At the beginning of the 90, with Damphousse/Muller they was able to put up points (80-95pts), and since that time horrible... Our last 80pts guys is in 96-97 (Recchi)... 10 years... Since him the best "ppg" in a season is Kovalev with 65pts in 69games last year...


Horrible, you're right my friend.

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Old
02-09-2007, 08:45 PM
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LamborGREENie
 
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The Habs haven't had a Superstar in the organisation for quite some time...

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Old
02-09-2007, 08:47 PM
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u think ur a curse thats nothing ... i feel like im the reason they are losing all these years.

case 1 - i immigrated to canada right after they win the cup the month before, from there they start to slide.

case 2 - i move to montreal (from Granby in 1996) Roy gets traded and the fall gets worse and worse.

case 3 - 2000ish i move to hamilton, they start drafting decent players (only good part i guess, sadly)

im so ashamed

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02-09-2007, 08:50 PM
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Namso
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A decade since our last 80pt player?!?!?! holy **** we've had some bad teams...

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Old
02-09-2007, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcityhab View Post
u think ur a curse thats nothing ... i feel like im the reason they are losing all these years.

case 1 - i immigrated to canada right after they win the cup the month before, from there they start to slide.

case 2 - i move to montreal (from Granby in 1996) Roy gets traded and the fall gets worse and worse.

case 3 - 2000ish i move to hamilton, they start drafting decent players (only good part i guess, sadly)

im so ashamed
Please leave the country ASAP

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Old
02-09-2007, 09:06 PM
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Lafontaine
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The problem...

I guess the only possible reason for this is that in Montreal, where there is a lot of pressure to make the play-offs and constantly stay competitive, the Habs have never really had the opportunity to enter into the normal rebuilding cycle.

Detroit were bottom feeders before they went on a two-decade tear. Colorado/Quebec, Pittsburg, Tampa Bay, San Jose - all the same thing. These clubs had three or four years of top 5 draft picking before beginning their upswing.

Pretty much the only place you find 100+ point scorers is in the top few slots of each entry draft. You can't buy or trade for these guys. If you do (Savard, Turgeon, Recchi, Kovalev), it is already after the exciting parts of their careers and I guess all you get are 8th place finishes and 70 point seasons!

We really missed a big chance to do a serious rebuild a few years ago (after Houle). We have done the right thing recently at the draft table. We've had good personel in our scouting departments for a change - too bad we didn't have the big picks for them to work with!

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Old
02-09-2007, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafontaine View Post
I guess the only possible reason for this is that in Montreal, where there is a lot of pressure to make the play-offs and constantly stay competitive, the Habs have never really had the opportunity to enter into the normal rebuilding cycle.

Detroit were bottom feeders before they went on a two-decade tear. Colorado/Quebec, Pittsburg, Tampa Bay, San Jose - all the same thing. These clubs had three or four years of top 5 draft picking before beginning their upswing.

Pretty much the only place you find 100+ point scorers is in the top few slots of each entry draft. You can't buy or trade for these guys. If you do (Savard, Turgeon, Recchi, Kovalev), it is already after the exciting parts of their careers and I guess all you get are 8th place finishes and 70 point seasons!

We really missed a big chance to do a serious rebuild a few years ago (after Houle). We have done the right thing recently at the draft table. We've had good personel in our scouting departments for a change - too bad we didn't have the big picks for them to work with!
and so is the tragedy of being a habs fan (in a good way)

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Old
02-09-2007, 09:38 PM
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I'm 1-3-0 this season. That's not a very good stat.

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Old
02-10-2007, 12:12 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Lafontaine View Post
I am a curse.
Then take one for the team, go cheer for the Leafs. Do us all a big favour.

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Old
02-10-2007, 12:58 AM
  #11
Miller Time
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wait a second here...
two things,
1- since 1979 we have won two cups and been in a third final... not quite in line with the glorious tradition, true, but how badly do you think the Leafs/Bruins/Flyers (just to name a few of our rivals) wish they could have had that kind of success in the last 25 years, bet their fans would have given up a lindros/sundin/neely for a couple of cups!

2- the top scorer/franchise player thing definitely helps when you suck so bad that you get a few years of draft picks, BUT, several of the top scorers both this year and last could have been had by the habs... takes a little bit of foresight, some shrewd managing and a touch of luck.
for example:
- Martin St-Louis (for years he bounced around, and could have been had for peanuts)
- Joe Thorton (stuart/the bad primeau/sturm... think we could have offered more than that... i know i know, boston wouldnt have traded him to a conference rival....)
- Marc Savard (went to Atlanta for nothing from Calgary)
- Teemu Selane (signed for peanuts after terrible season with avs)
- Ray Whitney (not a perenial all-star, but on pace for 90+ pts this year, again available for next to nothing several times)
- Jagr (went to NY for Beech/Sivek/Lupaschek AND wash is still paying part of his contract!!)
- Ollie jokinen (the current "answer to our prayers" made his way to Florida WITH Luongo in exchange for Kvasha and Parrish !!!!)

I'm sure if you went back, year for year, you'd find a few guys each season who hit the top ten in scoring and were aquired by their team for very little.

anyways, point is that our lack of a real scorer is not just a matter of not having had a string of top picks in the last 25 years, it's a combination of
- AWFUL drafting from the late 80's until 3-4 years ago, +
- some TERRIBLE management (Leclair, Recchi, Turgeon are all guys that went on to have 90+ pt/or over a PPG seasons after they were dealt with not as much coming the other way... and it's hard to imagine that we could have got any less than we did in trading Roy, he alone should have brought back the picks/prospects that would eventually turn into franchise players!!), +
- downright bad luck (Koivu was leading the league in scoring when he suffered his first major injury).

So yeah, not having a big time scorer to cheer for sucks, but the future (thanks to Savard/Gainey/Timmins) looks much brigther, and I'll take the two cups in 25 years over no cups and a boatload of scoring titles ANYDAY.

GO HABS GO!

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Old
02-10-2007, 02:50 AM
  #12
Pere Noel
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Originally Posted by MoneyPlayer101 View Post
The Habs haven't had a Superstar in the organisation for quite some time...
I would call, the arguably best goalie of all time, Patrick Roy a superstar... wouldn't you?

Of course, he didn't figure in the top 10 goal scorers...

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Old
02-10-2007, 03:34 AM
  #13
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We'll have a superstar soon enough: Carey Price.

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Old
02-10-2007, 08:00 AM
  #14
wedge
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcityhab View Post
u think ur a curse thats nothing ... i feel like im the reason they are losing all these years.

case 1 - i immigrated to canada right after they win the cup the month before, from there they start to slide.

case 2 - i move to montreal (from Granby in 1996) Roy gets traded and the fall gets worse and worse.

case 3 - 2000ish i move to hamilton, they start drafting decent players (only good part i guess, sadly)

im so ashamed
you should go live in toronto lol

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Old
02-10-2007, 08:47 AM
  #15
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I would consider Theo, in his good days, close to a superstar.
To get a young and rising superstar, you have to tank and be last in order to draft that guy. The habs haven't tanked in a while, and the closest draft position we had in the last 5-6 years or so was the 5th position in 2005 (we were pretty lucky with the lottery). The penguins have a couple of young star players in their lineup but:
1) Pittsburg has tanked over the years, i wonder if it was on purpose.
2) Once these guys will be rfa's or ufa's ... they'll be expensive and they will be less cap space for the other guys (like tampa bay).
The habs rely more on depth, and also every year we improve step by step.
In the long run, the habs will be in a way better situation than the penguins.

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Old
02-10-2007, 09:10 AM
  #16
phil
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Originally Posted by HexCopterKey View Post
We'll have a superstar soon enough: Carey Price.


but he won't put up points...

I'd like to believe that a guy like Grabovski or Higgins will put up near to 100 pts sometime soon

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Old
02-10-2007, 09:19 AM
  #17
psychonaut
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but he won't put up points...

I'd like to believe that a guy like Grabovski or Higgins will put up near to 100 pts sometime soon
Maybe when they will play on that same line

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Old
02-10-2007, 09:22 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by MoneyPlayer101 View Post
The Habs haven't had a Superstar in the organisation for quite some time...
the habs had a super star year 2002-2004.... it was theo...admit it guys if some one wins the the hart trophy and vezina they are consider as a super star...and theo's stats were pretty good since 2001-2004...he was in the top 5 ishhh goalies, but now hes nothing like one of those story of "every thing to nothing"...and lets not forget ROY...

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Old
02-10-2007, 09:22 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by MoneyPlayer101 View Post
The Habs haven't had a Superstar in the organisation for quite some time...
The last true star players were Patrick Roy and - a shooting star - Jose Theodore !

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Old
02-10-2007, 11:01 AM
  #20
terreur
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just take a look at this:

http://http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/...000452000.html

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Old
02-10-2007, 11:50 AM
  #21
Nobak
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Originally Posted by ProudToBeAHabFan View Post
you should go live in toronto lol
I disagree. The Leafs would then draft a bunch of good talent.

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Old
02-10-2007, 12:58 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by terreur View Post
Link did not work.

#1 pick Savard instead of Wickenheiser in 1980 would have given us that top 10 for many, many years.

Hell, AL SECORD scored 50 playing with Denis.

Also wished we could have picked up Pat Lafontaine.

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