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The Flyers blew it by not selecting Maatta

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Old
02-14-2014, 08:47 PM
  #26
Striiker
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I trust this organization when it comes to drafting in the 1st round, if they picked Laughton over Maatta I'm sure they didn't just flip a coin. Either way, it's too early to tell, for all we know Laughton could turn out a lot better than Maatta. Who's to say Maatta isn't just having a good year and then goes downhill? We haven't even seen Laughton for a decent amount of time at the NHL level either.

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02-14-2014, 08:55 PM
  #27
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More of a need, yes. But you don't draft for need. You draft bpa and in the Flyers' view, that player was Scott Laughton. We need a few more years to judge and even then that may be too early.

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02-14-2014, 09:23 PM
  #28
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Flyers had to have had a reason to pass on Matta. Not saying he wont become a true #1 but if the Flyers saw that potential I have to think they would jump on it.

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02-14-2014, 10:40 PM
  #29
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This thread just happens to come up after he has a 3 point game against Norway

He's good. He's a real solid young player, but I just don't see him being a number 1. I just don't know how much better he's going to get. He's obviously smart, or he wouldn't be playing in the league at 19, but that will only take you so far. His physical skills are pretty average across the board. He's an okay skater. That was one of his biggest knocks coming out. He had a real choppy, unorthodox stride. It has been ironed out a good bit, but his top end speed is good not great. Same with his shot. Good not great. Decent puck skills, but I see him more as a 2nd unit PP guy than a 1st (especially when Pouliot gets established).

Look he might turn out to be better than Laughton, I just don't know if Maatta has the same success here as he has/will have in Pittsburgh (not that this thread was created due to his play in Pittsburgh). He gets to play behind one of the best if not the best offense teams in the league that controls the play the majority of the time. He's also been eased into the NHL game- something that probably would not have happened here.

Before the draft I saw Maatta as a mid-pairing guy. I still think that's what he will be. Maybe he becomes a #2 and gets paired with Letang, but I don't see him ever anchoring the 1st pair. Again, he's a solid, but unspectacular player. He doesn't have that one standout trait. He's not a pure shutdown guy. He's not a pure offensive guy. He's just a solid safe two-way player. Surely that's something we could use right now, but I'll wait a few years. Also, if the Flyers had taken Maatta, there's no guarantee they take Morin this year. Morin has a chance to be a #1. He also is much more risky, but I'm OK with that.

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02-15-2014, 01:23 AM
  #30
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I still don't understand how so many teams could pass over him after the Memorial Cup run he had in his draft year. Laughton is progressing decently enough, but I was really upset when the Flyers took him with Maatta on the board.

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02-15-2014, 05:57 AM
  #31
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You can look at any draft and say "we should have picked this guy". It's pointless.

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02-15-2014, 06:27 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Norm MacDonald View Post
I still don't understand how so many teams could pass over him after the Memorial Cup run he had in his draft year. Laughton is progressing decently enough, but I was really upset when the Flyers took him with Maatta on the board.
Decently enough? He's putting up huge numbers.

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02-15-2014, 07:54 AM
  #33
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Decently enough? He's putting up huge numbers.
well, he should be. It's his fourth year in the league

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02-15-2014, 08:09 AM
  #34
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well, he should be. It's his fourth year in the league
You can't discount a guy because he's doing what he's supposed to be doing.

So much on this site is made about potential. Well here's a guy who's lived up to his potential and then some at this point of his career, and the OP is already calling the pick a mistake.

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02-15-2014, 08:15 AM
  #35
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It's not so much what Laughton is as it is how many more needs Maataa would have filled, and doing so in shorter order. 1st round picks are almost exclusively on the NHL roster within the second year following the draft is exactly what this team shoots for. And picking Maataa likely means JVR for Schenn doesn't happen.

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02-15-2014, 09:36 AM
  #36
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It's not so much what Laughton is as it is how many more needs Maataa would have filled, and doing so in shorter order. 1st round picks are almost exclusively on the NHL roster within the second year following the draft is exactly what this team shoots for. And picking Maataa likely means JVR for Schenn doesn't happen.
It's Maatta and no it does not mean that at all. If you're counting on your 18 year old, 20th overall pick, to play top 4 minutes behind a team that puts a lot of pressure on defensemen, you are in big trouble.

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02-15-2014, 10:04 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
It's Maatta and no it does not mean that at all. If you're counting on your 18 year old, 20th overall pick, to play top 4 minutes behind a team that puts a lot of pressure on defensemen, you are in big trouble.
I agree in principle, but I don't think that is the thought process over in Voorhees.

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02-15-2014, 10:26 AM
  #38
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I agree in principle, but I don't think that is the thought process over in Voorhees.
Does taking Morin this year affect their pursuit of a top pairing this year and in the offseason? No. Management has its faults, but that was a ridiculous claim. I think that clown that was occupying the crease had more to do with JVR getting shipped out than not taking Maatta.

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02-15-2014, 10:32 AM
  #39
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Being a defenseman on a team that spends most of the night in their offensive zone is a dream. With what the Penguins have up front, the flaws of their defensemen rarely show until they play one of the better teams. Maatta has his shortcomings and most likely will be a second pair defenseman. Lets hold off on giving him the Norris at this point.
Speculation that taking Maatta would have made the trade for LScehnn less likely is hard to justify. One could say then that drafting Maatta would have meant that he Flyers wouldn't have taken Morin or Haag, either of which might end up being a superior player to Maatta.
The Flyers did what they did and took Laughton. Lets just see how well he plays in the NHL before jumping to the conclusion that taking Laughton over Maatta was a mistake. The way that Laughton's learning curve has gone each season, to say that he'll be a top nine player might be a little low on his potential.

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02-15-2014, 10:39 AM
  #40
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the flyers blew it by not selecting maatta because after 50 games maatta is a stud and laughton is still in the OHL... why bother with threads like this?

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02-15-2014, 11:56 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Does taking Morin this year affect their pursuit of a top pairing this year and in the offseason? No. Management has its faults, but that was a ridiculous claim. I think that clown that was occupying the crease had more to do with JVR getting shipped out than not taking Maatta.
JVR got moved because "half" of the organization didn't like him from the get go, and in his time here he kept giving ammo to his detractors. If he had a full season like he has for toronto, he wouldn't have been moved.

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02-15-2014, 12:02 PM
  #42
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It's not so much what Laughton is as it is how many more needs Maataa would have filled, and doing so in shorter order. 1st round picks are almost exclusively on the NHL roster within the second year following the draft is exactly what this team shoots for. And picking Maataa likely means JVR for Schenn doesn't happen.
there are no guarantees this player plays the same here.

and how exactly does this Org shoot for 1 year after Draft in the nhl fulltime players? we have done that with like 1 guy in 15yrs.

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02-15-2014, 12:37 PM
  #43
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Meh. I wanted him at the time, but Laughton hasn't played a single game. For all we know Laughton turns out better. In other words, too soon to tell.

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02-15-2014, 12:45 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
It's Maatta and no it does not mean that at all. If you're counting on your 18 year old, 20th overall pick, to play top 4 minutes behind a team that puts a lot of pressure on defensemen, you are in big trouble.
yeah we should know all about that. See Sbisa

Maatta does look pretty good so far but as others have said its too early to tell. Laughton has not played enough in the NHL to judge if they "blew it". They Flyers have a pretty good record at drafting guys a the top of the draft so this should be given some time to judge it. Maybe in a few years we can look back on it. right now? too early.

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02-15-2014, 01:15 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
there are no guarantees this player plays the same here.

and how exactly does this Org shoot for 1 year after Draft in the nhl fulltime players? we have done that with like 1 guy in 15yrs.

Say what?

1st Round Picks since Clarke back:

Morin - TBD, but the Flyers don't sign draft picks in training camp without hoping they'd make the team
Laughton - They wanted here, couldn't make it work, would have remained last year if it wasn't bc of lockout
Couturier - made team out of camp
Sbisa - made team out of camp
JVR - wanted to sign after 1 year to play in NHL, but he refused
Giroux - remained patient with, but tried to keep him here at age 20, got capped out
Downie - didn't make the club within 2 years, traded after less than 50 NHL games
Carter/Richards - extra year of juniors only because of lockout, may have made team in 2004
Pitkanen - 1 year in Finland, made team the following season
Woywitka - traded once decided he was a sunk cost, for another sunk cost
Williams - made team out of camp
Ouellet - goaltenders are a bit different, but he was traded because he didn't show enough promise once being signed
Gagne - went back to juniors, made team following season
Zubrus - made team out of camp (from Junior A!)
Boucher - patient, and is a goaltender


Not sure how you could claim otherwise with 1st round picks. They're trying to draft players in the 1st round, not necessarily prospects. They're brought here without wanting them to screw around in the AHL. The Phantoms have been woeful at producing viable NHL talent. Their record shows all of this

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02-15-2014, 01:22 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Say what?

1st Round Picks since Clarke back:

Morin - TBD, but the Flyers don't sign draft picks in training camp without hoping they'd make the team
Laughton - They wanted here, couldn't make it work, would have remained last year if it wasn't bc of lockout
Couturier - made team out of camp
Sbisa - made team out of camp
JVR - wanted to sign after 1 year to play in NHL, but he refused
Giroux - remained patient with, but tried to keep him here at age 20, got capped out
Downie - didn't make the club within 2 years, traded after less than 50 NHL games
Carter/Richards - extra year of juniors only because of lockout, may have made team in 2004
Pitkanen - 1 year in Finland, made team the following season
Woywitka - traded once decided he was a sunk cost, for another sunk cost
Williams - made team out of camp
Ouellet - goaltenders are a bit different, but he was traded because he didn't show enough promise once being signed
Gagne - went back to juniors, made team following season
Zubrus - made team out of camp (from Junior A!)
Boucher - patient, and is a goaltender


Not sure how you could claim otherwise with 1st round picks. They're trying to draft players in the 1st round, not necessarily prospects. They're brought here without wanting them to screw around in the AHL. The Phantoms have been woeful at producing viable NHL talent. Their record shows all of this
How did you come to that conclusion? He signed his contract & played in his first & only preseason game on the same day then was sent down the following day.


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Old
02-15-2014, 01:32 PM
  #47
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How did you come to that conclusion? He signed his contract & played in his first & only preseason game on the same day then was sent down the following day.
It was same thing I got told when they signed Sbisa. Difference is that there weren't 9 defensemen ahead of Sbisa on the depth chart. Everyone else they sign in training camp at least make the opening day roster.

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02-15-2014, 01:50 PM
  #48
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It was same thing I got told when they signed Sbisa. Difference is that there weren't 9 defensemen ahead of Sbisa on the depth chart. Everyone else they sign in training camp at least make the opening day roster.
If they wanted him in the lineup that badly they would have made it work. They always find their way around hurdles. Hell history shows you they would have traded a guy like Mez along with a second rounder to fit Morin in if they really wanted to. Gill was also on a try-out contract at that point as well so that would have left you with 7 including Morin. Plus if you watch the video during the draft all their scouts were talking about how Morin had ways to go.

It's really not that uncommon for first rounders out of the CHL to sign during the same summer of their draft & not play in the NHL that year.

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02-15-2014, 02:18 PM
  #49
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If they wanted him in the lineup that badly they would have made it work. They always find their way around hurdles. Hell history shows you they would have traded a guy like Mez along with a second rounder to fit Morin in if they really wanted to. Gill was also on a try-out contract at that point as well so that would have left you with 7 including Morin. Plus if you watch the video during the draft all their scouts were talking about how Morin had ways to go.

It's really not that uncommon for first rounders out of the CHL to sign during the same summer of their draft & not play in the NHL that year.
This is correct. Teams are the ones that usually push to get their first rounders signed as soon as possible. It gets the player some money in their pocket with signing bonuses to keep them motivated when they go back to juniors. That doesn't mean they're looking to get them into the league right away though.

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02-15-2014, 02:23 PM
  #50
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If they wanted him in the lineup that badly they would have made it work. They always find their way around hurdles. Hell history shows you they would have traded a guy like Mez along with a second rounder to fit Morin in if they really wanted to. Gill was also on a try-out contract at that point as well so that would have left you with 7 including Morin. Plus if you watch the video during the draft all their scouts were talking about how Morin had ways to go.

It's really not that uncommon for first rounders out of the CHL to sign during the same summer of their draft & not play in the NHL that year.
I don't disagree that it's uncommon, nor prudent. However, the Flyers record shows that when they sign their draft picks, it's followed up with their NHL debuts. They signed him, saw him play, and knew it wasn't the time.


And it's a different climate with the cap. They couldn't just waive as many guys as they needed to, and it rightfully still was not worth it to trade draft picks just to get rid of people. Was still the right call.

I'm not terribly concerned with what the scouts had to say, we all know Holmgren & Co. all get giant woodies when they see these guys in camp and impress with comments like "they don't look out of place." And I don't trust them either. They haven't earned difference to the opinions of people on internet message boards when their record in the draft is about what you'd expect from people who post on internet message boards.

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