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The Three Constants In Life: Death, Taxes and Oilers Draft Watch

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Old
02-12-2014, 02:23 PM
  #351
nexttothemoon
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
With a top 4 pick we can't take Ritchie and hope he turns out
Honestly any player you take... top 4 or otherwise... you have to hope they turn out. It would be no different with Ritchie.

There is no "unbustable" player out there... they all have the potential to become underwhelming marginal NHL players.

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02-12-2014, 02:38 PM
  #352
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I think you might have got some bad info on Dal Colle.

His skating has improved, but it's still probably his biggest weakness. His first step and top speed are fairly average.


Ritchie is definitely the better skater of the two.
It didn't appear that way to me when Oshawa and Peterborough played each other on Sportsnet a month (or two) ago. Dal Colle isn't Taylor Hall, but compared to Ritchie, I'd put him clearly ahead in that category.

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02-12-2014, 02:50 PM
  #353
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Judging by what I hear of the Hounds, I wonder if McCann will be top 5 by the end of the year. Another Lazar-esque player.

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02-12-2014, 02:57 PM
  #354
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It didn't appear that way to me when Oshawa and Peterborough played each other on Sportsnet a month (or two) ago. Dal Colle isn't Taylor Hall, but compared to Ritchie, I'd put him clearly ahead in that category.
Ritchie looked much more explosive and faster in my live viewings of them.

Pretty much every scouting report around says the same too.

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02-12-2014, 04:14 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Ritchie looked much more explosive and faster in my live viewings of them.

Pretty much every scouting report around says the same too.
Who is considered to be the better player between Virtanen and Ritchie? I have only seen Virtanen play. Are they on the same level or is one considerably better than the other?

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02-12-2014, 04:41 PM
  #356
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Who is considered to be the better player between Virtanen and Ritchie? I have only seen Virtanen play. Are they on the same level or is one considerably better than the other?
I think they're similar, but I don't know too much about Virtanen to say with certainty.

Ritchie, to me, projects as a 6'4'' 230+lb 30g30a winger who will throw the body around and drop the gloves on occasion.

They're both big, strong, fast with great shots/releases. Virtanen has the edge in skating. Ritchie has the edge in passing/playmaking, I'd guess.

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02-12-2014, 05:58 PM
  #357
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Virtanen sounds almost NHL ready from what Ive read. If he is BPA wed have a log jam at RW. But it would allow for Eberle to be traded for a D (hopefully Josi). If we could swap Gagner for a #2c with two way skill and size, wed have a pretty good second line of Perron-2c-Virtanen

I wouldn't mind Virtanen or Driastail, as both solve our needs
I respect you as a poster, but I honestly don't understand where people get this idea. Why, WHY, WHY would the other team do that? I mean is an opposing GM going to sit there and say... "oh, sure... I'll take Gags and trade away a bigger, more defensively sound C who scores 35-40 for a guy who might hit 60 and might hit 45. I just can't stay away from that potential 15 more points and the (half decent) prospect they are throwing in."

What motivates the other side to consider doing that?

What we should be looking for is Gags for a roughly equivalent young Dman whose rose is similarly coming off the bloom. That I could see.

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02-12-2014, 06:34 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
I respect you as a poster, but I honestly don't understand where people get this idea. Why, WHY, WHY would the other team do that? I mean is an opposing GM going to sit there and say... "oh, sure... I'll take Gags and trade away a bigger, more defensively sound C who scores 35-40 for a guy who might hit 60 and might hit 45. I just can't stay away from that potential 15 more points and the (half decent) prospect they are throwing in."

What motivates the other side to consider doing that?

What we should be looking for is Gags for a roughly equivalent young Dman whose rose is similarly coming off the bloom. That I could see.
Not straight up, but in a package. I don't believe Gagner could get an equivalent 2c with size on his own. But add good prospects/picks and he could.

His value is in the dirt right now, so id rather him play the rest of the year out and hopefully turn it around. The better he gets, then less the plus beside him has to be

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02-12-2014, 08:11 PM
  #359
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Reinhart is 6"1" 186lbs, about the same weight Hall was when he was drafted. Hall is now 205lbs. So, in two years is having RNH and Reinhart as our top two centre men good enough to be Stanley cup competitive.

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02-12-2014, 08:36 PM
  #360
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Reinhart is 6"1" 186lbs, about the same weight Hall was when he was drafted. Hall is now 205lbs. So, in two years is having RNH and Reinhart as our top two centre men good enough to be Stanley cup competitive.
no. we have to stop waiting for 18 year olds. Even Hall is only now becoming an impact player, and he still has some big holes in his game. Reinhart is at least 4 or 5 years from being impactful, if at all.

if they can't get Ekblad, they MUST trade the pick for immediate help. If they don't, then they are, essentially, writing off the next season or two, which is unnacceptable.

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02-12-2014, 08:56 PM
  #361
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If we somehow managed to get out of the top 5, Ritchie would be at the top of my list outside of the big 4. That guy is an absolute tank.

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02-12-2014, 09:40 PM
  #362
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If we can't get Ekblad I say we draft Ritchie and trade away our star players for big, tough players. Even if they're not nearly as good at hockey. Turn into an absolute goon squad.

We'd beat the other teams one way or another.

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02-12-2014, 10:14 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
Draisaitl. A big center like him could be our Kopitar if he reaches his potential, can't pass that up. I think a lot of people have soured on him because of the WJC and his recent slump, but the Oilers desperately need a big center like him. Of course, this is only if the Top 3 are off the board.
We need a center much more than we need another wing even if he is a power forward. They have to come out of this draft with Ekblad or one of the centers IMO.
I wasn't so keen on Nichushkin for this same reason. It was either Monahan or Nurse all the way. Those positions are so much more essential to team success and the more the Oilers stock the cupboards at those positions, the better.

In any event, this draft doesn't seem to be nearly as weak as some are speculating. Maybe there's no MacKinnon or McDavid level talent, but Ekblad, Reinhart and Bennett are having terrific years on par with the top players of the previous few drafts and seem to be getting stronger as the year goes on and even the guys after that like Draisaitl (despite the recent slump), Dal Colle, Virtanen and Ritchie are doing very well. It seems like a good draft to be picking anywhere in the top 5 and get players of fairly equal value unlike other drafts when there was a more consensus top 2 or 3. Lots of good options in this draft.
I haven't seen a lot of many of the players in the draft and I'm no draft expert, but of the players I have seen who are projected to go in the late 1st or early 2nd, they haven't been very impressive. There are usually a good handful of players I watch who are projected to go in the 2nd round that look quite good and appear to have a decent chance at becoming NHL players, I don't get that feeling from this draft. While I like some of the top end talent quite a bit it feels like the drop off comes pretty quick.

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02-13-2014, 10:34 AM
  #364
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If we fall out of the top three I hope Mac T can swing a trade for a decent defenceman somehow.

I admit there probably isn't a trade out there that will really make an impact on this team next year.

On the other hand I don't know if I can take watching some team trade for our pick and nail it while we struggle again with the player they gave up. The way things go for this team that's what will end up happening.

I just don't trust our scouting staff to nail any pick after the top 3 which I'm considering to be relatively safe bets as far as draft picks go.

There's probably some gold in the 4-10 range. But I think there's some land mines also. I just don't have the faith in our scouting to get it right.

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02-13-2014, 10:45 AM
  #365
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no. we have to stop waiting for 18 year olds. Even Hall is only now becoming an impact player, and he still has some big holes in his game. Reinhart is at least 4 or 5 years from being impactful, if at all.

if they can't get Ekblad, they MUST trade the pick for immediate help. If they don't, then they are, essentially, writing off the next season or two, which is unnacceptable.
Yah I dont know about that... MacKinnon is doing fine in COL, Zibanejad is also starting to come along.. A player like Lazar should also be making a similar impact in a year or 2 max. These top ranked kids seem to come pre-polished. Seguin\Hall werent world beater but were good in NHL as rookies.
Reinhart might go down for 1 more year but then afterwards he is a regular NHLer.

Monahan can be considered a semi-disappointment this season with injuries and inconsistent performance... The guy still has 16 goals so far this season. Sam Reinhart is in the same mold.

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02-13-2014, 10:56 AM
  #366
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Yah I dont know about that... MacKinnon is doing fine in COL, Zibanejad is also starting to come along.. A player like Lazar should also be making a similar impact in a year or 2 max. These top ranked kids seem to come pre-polished. Seguin\Hall werent world beater but were good in NHL as rookies.
Reinhart might go down for 1 more year but then afterwards he is a regular NHLer.

Monahan can be considered a semi-disappointment this season with injuries and inconsistent performance... The guy still has 16 goals so far this season. Sam Reinhart is in the same mold.
Actually I'd say Reinhart is probably ahead of many of those guys in terms of NHL readiness thanks to his hockey sense. I don't want to put him in the 2C role because the rest of our top 6 is so young and lacks NHL size and strength, but I think he could handle it fine. He's got better positioning and hockey IQ than any of the guys you mentioned above.

The poster you quoted, suggesting he'd be 4-5 years away from making an impact, is off in his assessment. 4-5 years away from having proper size and strength, maybe, but Reinhart would be one of our best defensive forwards next year.

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02-13-2014, 11:26 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by LTIR View Post
Yah I dont know about that... MacKinnon is doing fine in COL, Zibanejad is also starting to come along.. A player like Lazar should also be making a similar impact in a year or 2 max. These top ranked kids seem to come pre-polished. Seguin\Hall werent world beater but were good in NHL as rookies.
Reinhart might go down for 1 more year but then afterwards he is a regular NHLer.

Monahan can be considered a semi-disappointment this season with injuries and inconsistent performance... The guy still has 16 goals so far this season. Sam Reinhart is in the same mold.
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Actually I'd say Reinhart is probably ahead of many of those guys in terms of NHL readiness thanks to his hockey sense. I don't want to put him in the 2C role because the rest of our top 6 is so young and lacks NHL size and strength, but I think he could handle it fine. He's got better positioning and hockey IQ than any of the guys you mentioned above.

The poster you quoted, suggesting he'd be 4-5 years away from making an impact, is off in his assessment. 4-5 years away from having proper size and strength, maybe, but Reinhart would be one of our best defensive forwards next year.
I agree with this. It doesn't take 4-5 years to see whether a top forward prospect will have an impact or not... sure many forwards don't come into their full impact potential until their mid 20's but they are contributing solidly well before that... like RNH, Hall, Eberle have and like many, many other forwards (Couturier, Landeskog etc) have done.

Dmen I could see taking a few more years but with high end forwards you usually can see whether or not they are going to have an impact before 4-5 years.

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02-13-2014, 11:42 AM
  #368
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no. we have to stop waiting for 18 year olds. Even Hall is only now becoming an impact player, and he still has some big holes in his game. Reinhart is at least 4 or 5 years from being impactful, if at all.

if they can't get Ekblad, they MUST trade the pick for immediate help. If they don't, then they are, essentially, writing off the next season or two, which is unnacceptable.
Honestly what do you think the Oilers get for that pick? Say Ekblad and Reinhart are off the board and the Oilers traded their #3 pick.

I think people overestimate what teams would give up for a pick like that. Do you think they give up a legit #2 C or a top pairing dman... or a big gritty physical top 6 winger?

If a team is buying a lottery ticket on a player like DalColle or Draisaitl they aren't likely going to give up an established top NHL player for that.

People will then say... ya but a package deal would be different.. say Gagner + that #3 pick for example. Well maybe. Even then though would a team give up a legit top pairing dman for that package?

Do you get a Yandle or Myers for that? Maybe.
Do you get a Couturier for that? Maybe

Do those trades help your team... maybe... nothing is certain just like keeping and making that pick isn't a certainty either.

Do you make those deals? Maybe... maybe not though as you just might be better off with the pick and getting that ELC player and letting him develop and then dealing the other assets you were going to trade away for other pieces.

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02-13-2014, 08:04 PM
  #369
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'Based on the League standings entering the Olympic break, NHL.com's Adam Kimelman, Mike G. Morreale and Steven Hoffner all believe the Buffalo Sabres will take center Sam Reinhart of the Kootenay Ice of the Western Hockey League with the first pick.'

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=704719&cmpid=nhl-twt

Sounds like there's a shot that the Oil could still get Ekblad.

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02-13-2014, 08:15 PM
  #370
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Honestly what do you think the Oilers get for that pick? Say Ekblad and Reinhart are off the board and the Oilers traded their #3 pick.

I think people overestimate what teams would give up for a pick like that. Do you think they give up a legit #2 C or a top pairing dman... or a big gritty physical top 6 winger?

If a team is buying a lottery ticket on a player like DalColle or Draisaitl they aren't likely going to give up an established top NHL player for that.

People will then say... ya but a package deal would be different.. say Gagner + that #3 pick for example. Well maybe. Even then though would a team give up a legit top pairing dman for that package?

Do you get a Yandle or Myers for that? Maybe.
Do you get a Couturier for that? Maybe

Do those trades help your team... maybe... nothing is certain just like keeping and making that pick isn't a certainty either.

Do you make those deals? Maybe... maybe not though as you just might be better off with the pick and getting that ELC player and letting him develop and then dealing the other assets you were going to trade away for other pieces.
At #3 you make the pick. Ekblad, Reinhart and Bennett all would be nice pieces here, and I'm starting to think Bennett is a better fit than Reinhart. If the puck is #4 or lower that's where trade becomes a real possibility IMO.

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02-13-2014, 08:37 PM
  #371
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'Based on the League standings entering the Olympic break, NHL.com's Adam Kimelman, Mike G. Morreale and Steven Hoffner all believe the Buffalo Sabres will take center Sam Reinhart of the Kootenay Ice of the Western Hockey League with the first pick.'

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=704719&cmpid=nhl-twt

Sounds like there's a shot that the Oil could still get Ekblad.
Hopefully we're sellers at the deadline. We need the #2 pick

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02-13-2014, 08:49 PM
  #372
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I know Bennett plays a hard game put the kid is small when he hits a NHL player that is 30 lbs bigger he will be the one breaking

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02-16-2014, 02:57 PM
  #373
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If Bennett goes #2OV ahead of Reinhart, it'll be like Staal being taken over Toews all over again. I personally still have Reinhart as my top prospect in this draft, and all he's done in the last two months is improve. He's to this year's forwards as Trouba was to the defensemen in 2012.

In fact, I have Reinhart at the top of my draft list as both BPA and need.

Looking at our center depth both in the pipeline and on the roster (especially when you consider Gagner basically has one foot out the door), it's hard not to think it's a bigger issue.

The gap between Roy/Khaira/Yakimov and Reinhart is a whole lot bigger than the gap between Nurse/Marincin/Klefbom and Ekblad. And that's just at the prospect level. Our NHL centers (excluding Gagner for the reason I mentioned earlier) are Nuge, Gordon, and Arcobello. Our RDs are Petry, Schultz, and Belov/Larsen.

I really don't see how anyone could look at those two depth charts and determine that this draft is Ekblad or bust. And that's only looking at it from a needs perspective. Looking at BPA, there are just as many (if not more) reasons to put Reinhart at the top of the draft list as their are for Ekblad.

Then, you consider that last year, MacTavish wanted to come away with one of the centermen at the top of the draft, but didn't get the opportunity so he ended up taking a defesneman. So what has happened since then to lead us to believe we shouldn't be targeting a C with our first pick this year? is it the Gordon signing, or the perception of Gagner going from core player to being on the verge of being traded for a 4th line LW?

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02-16-2014, 03:06 PM
  #374
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Bennett and Staal aren't even remotely comparable.

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02-16-2014, 03:15 PM
  #375
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Bennett and Staal aren't even remotely comparable.
I wasn't trying to say they were.

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