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How do we get better moving forward? No pun intended

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Old
02-05-2014, 07:32 AM
  #151
Enoch
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Originally Posted by lstcyr View Post
I'm always amazed that we think Poile isn't trying. Whether he can succeed with a deal that gets what we want and not overpay, that's another story. I'm sure he works very hard at trying to make this a better team.
You are reading into my statement what I did not say. I hope he IS trying. I did not say that he isn't.

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Old
02-05-2014, 09:32 AM
  #152
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We need a new GM, a new coach and the admin side to learn how to spell.
Can't let the "Go Perds" thing go, can you?

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Old
02-05-2014, 02:40 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
That strategy sure seems to be working for the Oilers, Islanders, Blue Jackets, and Panthers. Meanwhile, Boston has two natural top-ten picks in the last ten years, one of whom was a complete bust and the other of whom is no longer on the roster. They've been to two Finals in that span. The Red Wings have not had a top 10 draft pick in over 20 years; I don't need to tell you what they've done.

Building through the draft is the best way to acquire talent; however, being bad and getting a bunch of high-end draft picks does not always equate to getting better. Good management and player evaluation and development are the foundation on which good teams are built. Dallas is a good example of how to do a rebuild, if that's what we're going to do. They were by no means good, but they didn't stop trying to compete, and they didn't drop to the pitiful level of Edmonton. They're going to be competitive for the next decade because they scouted well.
Boston is a pretty interesting example of building a winner through more than just the draft. signed chara as a key member of the core, drafted krejci/bergeron/lucic in the 2nd, traded for horton, and much more.

they have had FOUR top ten picks in the last 9 years (in fact four within 6 years) and only one of them still on the roster.

pretty interesting model they've had. traded two top 5 picks, not something a lot of teams would do (Pittsburgh did it too, with Ryan Whitney)

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Old
02-05-2014, 02:51 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
No.

Some people are acting scared like Poile to venture out of their comfort zone. And where has staying within Poile's comfort zone got us? Not far.

The thing is, I do think Poile and mgmt are ready to move on from Legwand. Poile is already pissed that he regressed after signing his 6 yr contract. It's good that he's seeing an increase in production in his contract year, but there is almost no reason to think that's going to continue if he gets a retirement contract.

Only way for the Predators to move forward is to venture out of their comfort zone. IMO, that includes moving on from David Poile-- the king of comfort zones.
I don't think that's totally fair to say about Poile.

I think he's worked hard with what he's given, a lot of what you think is the "comfort zone" I think is more limitations put on him by his circumstances.

Jones and mdz don't signal comfort zone to me, they signal smart hockey decisions done to better this team. stalberg etc seem like deals done by ownership or pressure from them to fix issues but under a certain dollar amount.

poile did try to get kessel once.

but I agree, the preds need to get better at drafting forwards. it would be nice to get a stud top ten pick, and a steal in the later rounds too

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Old
02-05-2014, 03:31 PM
  #155
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Working hard and trying are great, but GM should be measured in end-results.

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Old
02-05-2014, 04:15 PM
  #156
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Exactly
Trying is one thing
Getting it done is another

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02-05-2014, 05:57 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by theIceWookie View Post
I don't think that's totally fair to say about Poile.

I think he's worked hard with what he's given, a lot of what you think is the "comfort zone" I think is more limitations put on him by his circumstances.

Jones and mdz don't signal comfort zone to me, they signal smart hockey decisions done to better this team. stalberg etc seem like deals done by ownership or pressure from them to fix issues but under a certain dollar amount.

poile did try to get kessel once.

but I agree, the preds need to get better at drafting forwards. it would be nice to get a stud top ten pick, and a steal in the later rounds too
I disagree with that part of your statement. We needed issues fix but why fix them with pieces that we already have. Poile got who he could get to come here, remember he went after Briere,not saying that would have been much help either. Owners told him he could spend to cap, so dollar amounts was not the issue, except we had to overpay mediocre players to come here which is a dollar amount problem.

We needed another defenseman-we drafted Jones, that is an ok move.
We needed two top six forwards(Erat,Kostitsyn)- we signed the likes of Nystrom(I do not have a problem with him),Stalberg(mistake in my opinion),Hendricks(well we know how that ended up), and we got Forsberg in the Erat trade( who is not ready yet)


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Old
02-16-2014, 06:53 AM
  #158
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Just found this on NHL Trade Rummors, Just something to think about.

Quote:
The Fourth Period: The Predators have been shopping center pending UFA David Legwand and are looking for at least a first round pick for him. The Predators have been looking for young center and have shown interest in Oilers Sam Gagner. They have been dangling defenseman Ryan Ellis and forward Colin Wilson. Gagner almost landed in LA before the Olympic break. Talks could continue with the Oilers and Kings.
I wouldnt mind holding Wilson if we can, I just really like the kid. But if he's moved i wouldnt be upset.

I'd be interested in pickin up Gagner, The main reason i hear the LA deal fell apart for him is because the don't want to retain salary, If we move Leggy for a first, then we wouldn't need to retain any salary.

Not sure what the Value of Ellis is, a Mid pick or a B level prospect maybe?

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02-16-2014, 09:17 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by wentz22 View Post
Just found this on NHL Trade Rummors, Just something to think about.



I wouldnt mind holding Wilson if we can, I just really like the kid. But if he's moved i wouldnt be upset.

I'd be interested in pickin up Gagner, The main reason i hear the LA deal fell apart for him is because the don't want to retain salary, If we move Leggy for a first, then we wouldn't need to retain any salary.

Not sure what the Value of Ellis is, a Mid pick or a B level prospect maybe?
I wouldn't mind Gagner either. If Legwand does indeed go, I would also like to see Cullen go and us trying to land Stastny if he reaches UFA. Stastny at number 1 and Gagner for #2, we do have some decent wingers in the roster and in the pipeline, they would probably benefit a lot more from these centers.

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02-16-2014, 09:37 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by iKiwi View Post
I wouldn't mind Gagner either. If Legwand does indeed go, I would also like to see Cullen go and us trying to land Stastny if he reaches UFA. Stastny at number 1 and Gagner for #2, we do have some decent wingers in the roster and in the pipeline, they would probably benefit a lot more from these centers.
There's definitly alot of ways the Center picture could unfold, If we could land Statsny and Ganger then running Statsny/Gagner/Fisher/Goose as a 1-4 wouldnt be bad.

If we can't land Statsny i also wouldn't mind running Wilson/Gagner/Fisher Goose. Really there are a ton of options for what we could look like down the middle next year. Will know more after March 5th.

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02-16-2014, 01:30 PM
  #161
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Gagner is a lateral move, at best. We'd be better off keeping Legwand.

I'm likely in a very small minority, but I'd rather trade Wilson over Ellis.

Stastny is a pipe dream. If he goes to UFA, you'll have 20 teams looking to sign him.

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02-16-2014, 02:05 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Gagner is a lateral move, at best. We'd be better off keeping Legwand.

I'm likely in a very small minority, but I'd rather trade Wilson over Ellis.

Stastny is a pipe dream. If he goes to UFA, you'll have 20 teams looking to sign him.
The optimist in me likes to think we have a shot at Stastny with the Poile and Smith Team USA connections. Then again, Stastny is only a minor upgrade over Legwand so I wouldn't be too upset if we lost out.

I actually borderline agree with you on Wilson. I'm kind of tired of his inconsistency and I do think Ellis will carve out a solid career for himself. I wouldn't sell him for parts, but if a 1 for 1 swap for another forward came along, I'd think about it.

We need to cross our fingers this summer that a big name forward becomes available via trade and throw everything we got to get him. We have some good assets we can move. Sadly, this is probably our best 'plan'

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02-16-2014, 02:06 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
Gagner is a lateral move, at best. We'd be better off keeping Legwand.

I'm likely in a very small minority, but I'd rather trade Wilson over Ellis.

Stastny is a pipe dream. If he goes to UFA, you'll have 20 teams looking to sign him.
You could argue that Gagner/Legwand is a lateral move, but keeping Legwand over him? I dont think so. Leggy is 34, has 2-4 years left. Gagner is 24, 10 years younger. So even if there is a lateral move, making up the years would be a win in my books.

Or if Statsny really is a pipedream, we trade legwand and resign him this summer and run some form of Gagner/Fisher/Wilson/Legwand/Goose. Move Legwand or Fisher to wing. Who knows, we have to much depth at C its a bit insane.

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02-16-2014, 07:29 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by wentz22 View Post
You could argue that Gagner/Legwand is a lateral move, but keeping Legwand over him? I dont think so. Leggy is 34, has 2-4 years left. Gagner is 24, 10 years younger. So even if there is a lateral move, making up the years would be a win in my books.

Or if Statsny really is a pipedream, we trade legwand and resign him this summer and run some form of Gagner/Fisher/Wilson/Legwand/Goose. Move Legwand or Fisher to wing. Who knows, we have to much depth at C its a bit insane.
Out of all that C depth, you'd think ONE could be a real, true to life 1st line, NHL quality one. Is there any way we could combine them and produce a Geno-like clone from Pitt?

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02-16-2014, 07:52 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Stastny is only a minor upgrade over Legwand so I wouldn't be too upset if we lost out.
That would be an opinion. Stastny has made team USA twice and is 6 years younger... Legwand has never even been invited to orientation camp. And Team USA's GM happens to be the guy whose seen every game Legwand has ever played.

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02-16-2014, 07:53 PM
  #166
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I don't want Gagner. Just too much of inconsistent tweener -- we have enough of those guys.

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02-16-2014, 08:31 PM
  #167
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No thanks. We need to build a real team not one of spare parts.

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02-16-2014, 09:01 PM
  #168
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Has to be a reason Edmonton is wanting to trade a 24 year old center who was a top 8 pick... It's not like they are stacked at C.
So if we get all these guys what happens to Watson. Is it not his shot?

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02-16-2014, 09:40 PM
  #169
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Has to be a reason Edmonton is wanting to trade a 24 year old center who was a top 8 pick... It's not like they are stacked at C.
So if we get all these guys what happens to Watson. Is it not his shot?
They're also probably tired of waiting for a 24 year old to become something he probably won't ever become. At least ours is making less that half what Gagner's making though.

I wouldn't worry about Watson. We're not getting more than 1 center, and I doubt we'll even get that. He'll slot into the 3rd or 4th line center next season, depending on what he's ready for (Goose can slide up a line if we need him to).

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02-16-2014, 10:13 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
That would be an opinion. Stastny has made team USA twice and is 6 years younger... Legwand has never even been invited to orientation camp. And Team USA's GM happens to be the guy whose seen every game Legwand has ever played.
Am I dreaming or did you just complement Poile?

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02-17-2014, 02:04 AM
  #171
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Am I dreaming or did you just complement Poile?
Poile can't build elite teams but he's not an idiot. If he wants to take that as a compliment, fine with me.

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02-17-2014, 07:36 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Iron Duke View Post
They're also probably tired of waiting for a 24 year old to become something he probably won't ever become. At least ours is making less that half what Gagner's making though.

I wouldn't worry about Watson. We're not getting more than 1 center, and I doubt we'll even get that. He'll slot into the 3rd or 4th line center next season, depending on what he's ready for (Goose can slide up a line if we need him to).
If i was going to dangle Wilson i think i would be willing to throw in another young guy to get a little better return. I can't watch another David Legwand for any longer..lol

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02-17-2014, 08:28 AM
  #173
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Wilson and Ellis for Paranteau and a pick?

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02-17-2014, 09:13 AM
  #174
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If I'm the GM I don't trade Wilson. He is not the problem. As I've said before and I'll say it again, two points. 1. Moving him to center was the best thing Trotz did. He looks more comfortable out there, is making plays and is using his size and a little bit of a mean streak. The points will come if he continues to play like he is. 2. Get him a finisher. A good playmaker needs someone who can shoot the puck and bury it. It's not his fault he doesn't have anyone on his line that can bury the puck. If he had a finisher, his numbers would go up as well.

You don't trade good pieces, you build around them and give them the pieces they need to succeed as well. Smith and Legwand have looked good together. Find a Smith like player to play alongside Wilson and I guarantee Wilson's numbers would be in the 60 pt a year range. If Legwand is indeed traded, I could see Wilson and Smith on a line together becoming quite the duo. Put Hornqvist on the other size possibly and you've got the playmaker, the sniper and the garbage pail guy in front of the net.

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02-17-2014, 09:48 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
If I'm the GM I don't trade Wilson. He is not the problem. As I've said before and I'll say it again, two points. 1. Moving him to center was the best thing Trotz did. He looks more comfortable out there, is making plays and is using his size and a little bit of a mean streak. The points will come if he continues to play like he is. 2. Get him a finisher. A good playmaker needs someone who can shoot the puck and bury it. It's not his fault he doesn't have anyone on his line that can bury the puck. If he had a finisher, his numbers would go up as well.

You don't trade good pieces, you build around them and give them the pieces they need to succeed as well. Smith and Legwand have looked good together. Find a Smith like player to play alongside Wilson and I guarantee Wilson's numbers would be in the 60 pt a year range. If Legwand is indeed traded, I could see Wilson and Smith on a line together becoming quite the duo. Put Hornqvist on the other size possibly and you've got the playmaker, the sniper and the garbage pail guy in front of the net.
I have always wanted to see a Wilson/Smith combo be let loose, they're so much more creative of a PP unit that the Legwand/Fisher/Hornqvist line.

Someday i would hope we get to see Forsberg/Wilson/Smith as either our 1st or 2nd forward unit.

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