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Josh Gorges $3.9M/6 years Bad Contract or Good?

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Old
02-16-2014, 02:29 AM
  #526
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Gorges blocks shots because he is unable to clear the zone, he does it to himself. Players like PK Subban don't have a lot of blocked shots because they don't have to, they have the ability to play the position with the puck on their stick.
43th.

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02-16-2014, 02:41 AM
  #527
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
56th would put him in top-2...

Game 1: Vlasic: 12:59 5th among his peers.
Game 2: Vlasic: 16:16, Third in TOI among d-men.

I guess he does something good.
Numbers are not everything but usually, TOI reflects the judgment of coaches...

Not saying that Vlasic is better than Gorges, but the whole Team Canada coaching staff says so.
Actually, they think Vlasic is better than PK...
Are you just basing that from their TOIs? Babcock was crystal clear all lefties would be on the left side, while righties would be on the right side. If PK was a lefty, even Seabrook, Vlasic wouldn't even have made TC. LDs aren't as deep as the RDs.

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BTW have you heard anyone talking about Gorges going to the Olympics?
I never implied Gorges should've made TC. Don't put words in my mouth. My homerism isn't on that level yet.

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02-16-2014, 03:09 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Toshio View Post
That's ridiculous. Overhyping Vlasic too much because he made the Olympics or the fact that he's from Montreal?

Now I know numbers aren't everything, but Gorges blocked more shots and has more hits than Vlasic.

HITS
Gorges 79
Vlasic 38

BLOCKS
Gorges 161
Vlasic 108

Gorges played 58 games with 11 points while Vlasic played 59 games with 18 points. Not a lot of difference.

Now that I think about it, maybe someone like Mark Giordano should've made TC, not Vlasic.
Lol are you seriously making a case for Gorges being better or anywhere near the player Vlasic is? Cause if you are I won't waste my time responding, you should just pass on these great stats directly to Babcock or Yzerman. If Canada could send 5 teams to Olympics Gorges still wouldn't make it! I love coming here sometimes and reading this funny stuff.

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02-16-2014, 04:17 AM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Adriatic View Post
Lol are you seriously making a case for Gorges being better or anywhere near the player Vlasic is? Cause if you are I won't waste my time responding, you should just pass on these great stats directly to Babcock or Yzerman. If Canada could send 5 teams to Olympics Gorges still wouldn't make it! I love coming here sometimes and reading this funny stuff.
FFS I never said Gorges was better or that he should've been considered for Team Canada. I said there's just not a lot of difference. Holy ****, stop putting words in my mouth. I was merely responding to your post when you said Vlasic is 10 times better than Gorges. I thought that was just an exaggeration on your part.

Like I said, while Vlasic is a decent dman, he still wouldn't even have made TC if PK and Seabrook were lefties.

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02-17-2014, 09:52 AM
  #530
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
56th would put him in top-2...
a) Only because of his free agent status. If many dman had UFA rights like Gorges would of had, if he not signed his extension (Subban, etc) there would be alot more dman ahead of him salary wise.

b) The difference between 56th and 100th of the list of highest paid dman isn't that much. It's like stating he is overpaid at $3.9M a year, but would be a bargain at $3m a year which would put him tied for around 90th on the list.

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07-04-2014, 11:18 AM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
Overstated by who? You as an outsider? Makes sense. The team identifies him as an assistant captain & leader, but you believe its overstated. Sure.

And just a shot blocker? A little over simplified, yah think?
Looks like the team disagreed with you.

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07-04-2014, 11:22 AM
  #532
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Looks like the team disagreed with you.
Really?

You digged up a 5-month old thread just to go "nya nya nya"?

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Old
07-04-2014, 11:27 AM
  #533
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This whole thread is vindication to me. Feels good man.

Started last season with Diaz and Gorges as our 2nd pair. Going into this season with Emelin and Gilbert.

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07-04-2014, 11:38 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Really?

You digged up a 5-month old thread just to go "nya nya nya"?
If you think that was my motivation, then you're wrong. As usual. Reading the Gorges thread made me look for this one. Is that not allowed? I mean, I take a lot of criticism for being a "hater" and not knowing what I'm talking about. So it's nice to read comments from this thread and then compare them to the comments in the Gorges trade thread.

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07-04-2014, 11:41 AM
  #535
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
This whole thread is vindication to me. Feels good man.

Started last season with Diaz and Gorges as our 2nd pair. Going into this season with Emelin and Gilbert.
Yep. There were people who wanted us to trade Subban and go with Diaz. Then the people who thought Gorges was a legit top 4 dman and an "elite" shot blocker. The adulation was downright weird.

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07-04-2014, 11:44 AM
  #536
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I like the fact that, even last season, I called for trading Diaz or Gorges, and that in the end, we got rid of both. Goes to show how fans can fall in love with meh players on their team.

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07-04-2014, 11:47 AM
  #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Yep. There were people who wanted us to trade Subban and go with Diaz. Then the people who thought Gorges was a legit top 4 dman and an "elite" shot blocker. The adulation was downright weird.
I'm no Gorges lover, I'm more than content with replacing him with Gilbert, but that's only because I have a really high opinion of Gilbert. Gorges gets a lot of hate for not being highlight reel friendly. But the fact is that he DOES shut people down. You can't deny that. It's a fact that no matter who you put him with, or against, that he reduces the amount of goals and chances against by a substantial amount. If that's what you want from a DFD, Gorges is a good choice. If you wanted a stereotypical 'herp derp' dfd who goes around smashing things and getting pyloned every 3 seconds, there were some other D on the habs last year who likely tickled your fancy The main problems with gorges were whether his body could keep up with his play and his contract going into the future. Who knows? Maybe character issues as well. I know I wouldn't like his kind of 'cheerleading' on any team I play for, but some people dig that kinda stuff.

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07-04-2014, 11:47 AM
  #538
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I pray one day I can dig up old Desharnais threads nya nya nya

JG contract was too long too rich

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Old
07-04-2014, 11:48 AM
  #539
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
I like the fact that, even last season, I called for trading Diaz or Gorges, and that in the end, we got rid of both. Goes to show how fans can fall in love with meh players on their team.
You weren't the one with a murray avatar? I might be wrong there.

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07-04-2014, 12:08 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
Gorges blocks shots because he is unable to clear the zone, he does it to himself. Players like PK Subban don't have a lot of blocked shots because they don't have to, they have the ability to play the position with the puck on their stick.
That's a BS statement...the clincyer is Subban and Gorges usually played together, so how can one always have the puck and the other be blocking shots at the same time? Is there 2 pucks on the ice and I haven't noticed??

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07-04-2014, 12:15 PM
  #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
This whole thread is vindication to me. Feels good man.

Started last season with Diaz and Gorges as our 2nd pair. Going into this season with Emelin and Gilbert.
Emelin was injured.

More like:
Markov-Diaz
Gorges-Subban

Then after 3 games:
Markov-Subban
Gorges-Diaz

Until game 22 where Diaz was replaced by Emelin and Diaz was paired with either Bouillon or Murray.

Then at mid season, Diaz was traded around the time that:
Markov-Emelin
Gorges-Subban.

Diaz was a replacement for Emelin while he was injured.

We are looking better with Emelin-Gilbert because Emelin is not injured (will be able to train in the summer) and will play on his side.

Besides Emelin, Bouillon, Beaulieu were tried on the right.

Gilbert may not be a top-4 on a contender but he is the best RHD (aside from PK of course) we had since Wiz.

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Old
07-04-2014, 12:27 PM
  #542
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
I like the fact that, even last season, I called for trading Diaz or Gorges, and that in the end, we got rid of both. Goes to show how fans can fall in love with meh players on their team.
Oh so now you're going to act all smart?

Every single poster here wants the team to improve. Everyone. Price fans, Subban fans, Plekanec fans, Eller fans, Desharnais fans... if you can improve the team, you do it. Even if that means dealing a player you like.

Gorges and Diaz were ridiculously better than our other options last year. We played Bouillon and Murray. That's why people were against moving them.

This year, Bergevin is pushing Therrien's hand by making him play the rooks. Everyone is fine with that. We were not fine with Bouillon and Murray.

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Old
07-04-2014, 12:36 PM
  #543
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Is this thread about quoting people from a year ago?

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Old
07-04-2014, 12:39 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
You weren't the one with a murray avatar? I might be wrong there.
I loved the physical game Murray brought, but to my own admission, he was nothing more than a #6 d-man who, when playing limited minutes, could play a role on this team before, say, a Francis Bouillon. Some people in the other thread claimed Gorges was a #2 d-man. I think there's a huge difference between liking a player in what he brings, and ridiculously overrating a guy like Gorges. We had a clear reality check last week, when he was traded, that he's not THAT highly evaluated in this league.

As for Diaz, he's likely going to be back in Switzerland this summer.

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Originally Posted by One Man Rock Band View Post
Oh so now you're going to act all smart?

Every single poster here wants the team to improve. Everyone. Price fans, Subban fans, Plekanec fans, Eller fans, Desharnais fans... if you can improve the team, you do it. Even if that means dealing a player you like.

Gorges and Diaz were ridiculously better than our other options last year. We played Bouillon and Murray. That's why people were against moving them.

This year, Bergevin is pushing Therrien's hand by making him play the rooks. Everyone is fine with that. We were not fine with Bouillon and Murray.
Still, Gorges was being paid 3.9M to do what Weaver can do for 1.75M/1 year.
Gilbert is not my favorite player, and I do think stats fans overrate him quite a bit in what he brings, but at least, he's still more proven offensively than Diaz, all that while being 4-5 inches taller than he is. I don't mind if he's not destroying everything in sight... as long as he doesn't shy away from the corners/lets the puck to opponents ala Diaz.

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Old
07-04-2014, 01:25 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I'm no Gorges lover, I'm more than content with replacing him with Gilbert, but that's only because I have a really high opinion of Gilbert. Gorges gets a lot of hate for not being highlight reel friendly. But the fact is that he DOES shut people down. You can't deny that. It's a fact that no matter who you put him with, or against, that he reduces the amount of goals and chances against by a substantial amount. If that's what you want from a DFD, Gorges is a good choice. If you wanted a stereotypical 'herp derp' dfd who goes around smashing things and getting pyloned every 3 seconds, there were some other D on the habs last year who likely tickled your fancy The main problems with gorges were whether his body could keep up with his play and his contract going into the future. Who knows? Maybe character issues as well. I know I wouldn't like his kind of 'cheerleading' on any team I play for, but some people dig that kinda stuff.
I don't know if he shuts people down, though. I think Gorges got that shutdown name when he played with Gill. And that name kinda stuck with him when it was really that pairing that "shut down" teams and I'd say it was more a function of Habs defensive collapse system at the time. I have always thought Gorges was overrated but he was good for what he was paid at the time. But that contract drew more ttention and he just didn't bring enough for what he was paid and the role he played. Solid Dman that got too much responsibility and coach played him stupidly (ie: PP).

I don't think he gets hated on because he isn't highlight reel friendly. I mean, look at all the other players we have loved who weren't highlight reel guys. I think the Gorges hate came from him looking mediocre the last few years and wearing down. Didn't help that he likes to talk a lot. But as much hate he received. He got a lot of love so it evens out.

I think Gorges needed to bring more, that's all. Doesn't help that PK needs to be re-signed and Weaver does what Gorges does and more at a fraction of the cost. Easy decision IMO and I had said that Weaver made Gorges redundant and he plays like how I wish Gorges did. I'm not all that sold on Weaver either..but he makes nothing on a short term deal.

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Old
07-04-2014, 01:42 PM
  #546
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All you "the team traded him so we were right" are missing out on the reasons he was traded. It wasn't the same ones that you incorrectly feel vindicated for having.

He abbbsolutely made a huge difference at the back. Perhaps Gilbert will be able to on aggregate provide replacement for him (probably not as good defensively, probably much better offensively), so it was a good pickup given Gorges was going. But had that hole persisted, oh man, we would have been in trouble. Everything becomes a PK ****fest when obviously we all love him, he's our best skater, but to say he didn't get bailed out by Gorges sooooo many times is being disingenuous. I distinctly remember the impact he made when he returned from injury and how much it stabilized the back end.

The blocked shots mattered. It's infuriating to hear this nonsense argument over and over that it means that Gorges sucks because he does something really well. Guess what? There are 5 other players on the ice who are allowing the puck to be in the other teams' possession and often their 5 man unit poses quite a risk. If you think we are magically not going to be in situations where we need a huge shot block, you are sadly mistaken. It's one thing to say that the move improves the team overall, but it's just sickening to hear that Gorges only created his own valuable plays.

I would bang my head when Gorges had the puck in an offensive capacity, so I understand hating on that part of his game. Again, hopefully Gilbert/Tinordi, the balance of the rest of the D will make up for it, but at least give him (Gorges) credit for the things that as it stands, nobody else will be able to do. He wasn't perfect, but he read D plays well, he made it harder to score against and if you wanted to defend a lead with a minute left, he's who I would have out there. Now, I don't know for sure who that player is. Maybe PK. He's blown coverage too. Maybe Markov, but he gets gassed (and I'm a fan of his signing). Maybe Emelin, but he has his troubles and I wouldn't feel necessarily "safe", Weaver -- yes...he's the one guy I think might come close to replacing Gorges in that aspect. So, we're probably in good shape, but reviving this thread to **** on Gorges is so dickish.

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07-04-2014, 01:54 PM
  #547
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Blocked shots are great but am I the only one who thinks Georges got easily removed off the puck? Causing in zone turnovers? For a 6 foot guy bouillon on weaver play a bigger game.

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07-04-2014, 02:08 PM
  #548
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For the record, I re-read my own posts and I still agree with myself. Go me.

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Old
07-04-2014, 02:48 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
No, some of actually watch the game, understand it, and understand Gorges is an overpaid dman who gets exposed a lot. Sorry if you can't spot his inabilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Sorry if a lockout schedule isn't going to stop my inabilities to find some glaring holes in this team. They give Gorges way to much responsibility, far beyond his abilities. He isn't big enough to play the kind of minutes he does, the way he does.

I guess I'm waiting for the playoffs to see what this team is about.
Vindicated once again, good riddance Josh, good riddance.


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07-04-2014, 02:50 PM
  #550
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Man I am done talking about Gorges, he is a Buffalo Sabre.

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