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David Musil vs. Oscar Klefbom

View Poll Results: In 2013-14, who is the better prospect?
David Musil 1 0.96%
Oscar Klefbom 92 88.46%
Tie 5 4.81%
No opinion 6 5.77%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-17-2014, 04:36 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
Is that why he couldn't even crack the AHL roster over a guy who'd been inactive for 10 months due to injury?
Musil played one weekend series for the Condors, that's it. With the dman rotation they have in OKC you can't fault them. At that particular time the Barons also had Potter, Grebeshkov, Davidson, Marincin, Hunt, and Fedun in the lineup.

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02-17-2014, 04:39 PM
  #27
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Gregor's interview with Nelson seems to suggest that Klefbom has turned a corner:

http://oilersnation.com/2014/2/10/update-from-the-farm

Quote:
Nelson: He’s been playing really solid. I think that he’s been playing his best hockey since he’s come off of that injury. He’s put together a string of games where he’s been very consistent. He’s playing with confidence now, he’s winning loose puck battles in the corners, he’s very strong in those areas but the thing that I think that he has improved the most is his puck moving ability. He is playing a lot more confidently, he’s making good decisions, he’s finding options and they’re the right options. He’s definitely turning into the player that everyone thought that he was going to be. So long as he keeps that consistency up, he’s going to be fine.
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I think that just his play on the walls and in the corners. Any time that there is a one-on-one battle, he wins it. He is very strong in those areas. Everybody is looking for a defenceman who can win those loose puck battles in the corner, maybe kill the cycle and then go and transition the puck up ice. So that’s the one thing that really impresses me.


Another thing is that it doesn’t matter how much we play him, he never gets tired. His conditioning is fantastic. I think he just changes because everyone else changes. He probably could play the whole game and he plays at a high tempo as well. He doesn’t tire, he has great stamina and he’s just a horse for us. We could play him for 30 minutes and he wouldn’t even blink an eye. All of the things that I just mentioned will help him with his career, but the biggest thing is from the start of the year is that he is moving the puck a lot smarter and a lot better. He’s making better decisions like that
Now for me this is second hand info. Unlike last year I have not really watched the Barons at all.

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02-17-2014, 04:49 PM
  #28
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Here's an interview that Todd Nelson did on Oilers Now regarding Musil and Klefbom from last tuesday (~10 minutes in).

"(Musil) paired with Oscar Klefbom, we can rely on those two guys if the games on the line. Put them out there in the last minute and maybe preserve the win. Both David and Oscar are two heavy guys that can really control the corners and be strong in front of the net. So they're getting better and better, you have to be patient with these young guys but I like the progress."


Are we allowed to be happy for both?

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02-17-2014, 04:58 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
Here's an interview that Todd Nelson did on Oilers Now regarding Musil and Klefbom from last tuesday (~10 minutes in).

"(Musil) paired with Oscar Klefbom, we can rely on those two guys if the games on the line. Put them out there in the last minute and maybe preserve the win. Both David and Oscar are two heavy guys that can really control the corners and be strong in front of the net. So they're getting better and better, you have to be patient with these young guys but I like the progress."


Are we allowed to be happy for both?
Actually, I have been very happy with what I have heard about Musil this year.

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02-17-2014, 05:25 PM
  #30
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Can't help but think of Plante and Teubert and worry about Musil.

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02-17-2014, 05:55 PM
  #31
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Based on the development of our younger guys of late, I've always wondered how Nelson would look in a head-coaching gig.

I don't think he'd be a good fit here since I feel we need somebody more experienced but he really seems to know what he's doing in regards to development for our younger guys.

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02-17-2014, 06:14 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragss View Post
Can't help but think of Plante and Teubert and worry about Musil.
Musil isn't comparable to either. He's drastically stronger than Teubert, and much smarter. He's also infinitely better with the puck than Plante, and a better skater. He's not as good of prospect as Klefa, but he's seriously underrated around here. Why can't he be Greene? Why does he have to be Plante?

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02-17-2014, 07:04 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
Klefbom is better but I wouldn't hesitate to trade either of them.
This. Musil has always had a very low ceiling, and Klefbom is seriously over rated as I don't think he's offensively savvy enough to be an impactful player in the NHL. I don't think Musil fetches you much of anything but if Klefbom has value and is maybe still seen as a blue chip prospect by other organizations, then I trade him right away in the trade that nets you a top 2 D for next season.

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02-17-2014, 07:52 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
Klefbom is a fringe player between NHL and AHL right now.. Musil is a fringe player between AHL and ECHL right now..
Says the guy who has watched neither play all year.

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02-17-2014, 09:49 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by OiledUp View Post
This I don't get. Outside of Brodin who got into a perfect situation in Minnesota and Dougie Hamilton all the other first round D-men of that draft are fringe NHLers at best as of now. Even Adam Larsson has yet to fully establish himself as an NHLer. D-men takes time. Klefbom came off a lost season. He'll be fine.
Brodin, Hamilton, Olli Matta, I'm sure there are a few more.

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02-17-2014, 09:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
How did Penner do in LA again?

And which 2011 D are flourishing? This is a pretty unintelligent post
How did he do? I'm sure he can't hear you from the stanley cup ring in his ear. When you trade a starting winger with size and 2 1/2 years later you have nothing at all, you have been screwed over. Oiler fans fell all over themselves laughing it up at how we killed lombardi in that trade. 2 1/2 years later we are still waiting.

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02-17-2014, 09:52 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by dnicks17 View Post
Musil is a far better skater and passer than most give him credit for.

He has top4 shutdown potential.

He looked miles better than Klefbom earlier in the season. Klefbom has improved, but Musil hasn't slowed down.
He's awful and will never play for the oilers.

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02-17-2014, 09:55 PM
  #38
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He's awful and will never play for the oilers.
Based on?

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02-17-2014, 10:02 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Beerfish View Post
How did he do? I'm sure he can't hear you from the stanley cup ring in his ear. When you trade a starting winger with size and 2 1/2 years later you have nothing at all, you have been screwed over. Oiler fans fell all over themselves laughing it up at how we killed lombardi in that trade. 2 1/2 years later we are still waiting.
17 points in 65 games. Wow, I really missed that. Are we now attributing Stanley Cup wins to crappy players? Trevor Lewis and Dwight King also won the Stanely cup as passengers. Penner was also along for the ride

Penner has only started putting up points on a stacked Anaheim team with 2 great linemates.

If he had not being traded, he would have continued to be lazy and on the decline. In 2011 or 2012 when his value is at an all time low (he would have been on a much worse EDM team), Oiler fans would be demanding him to be traded, and we would have received a 3rd for him.

Penner was also traded while we were in a rebuilding phase, hence trading ageing players for prospects. If Klefbom has not gotten injured in the SEL last season he would have absolutly been in the NHL right now, and all would have been on plan. Instead he unfortunately got injured, so his NHL debut is delayed

Instead we received a 1st who turned into Klefbom, a prospect continually rated as a top 30 NHL prospect, who has been playing great in the AHL.

A potential top 4 or top 2 D is needed on the Oilers much more than a lazy, 30 point scorer who wouldnt even been around anymore


Last edited by topchowda: 02-17-2014 at 10:10 PM.
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02-17-2014, 10:39 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Says the guy who has watched neither play all year.
True but there is NO chance klefa would go down to ECHL and was going to be a callup to Oilers ahead of Marincin if he didnt get injured as per reports.. macT also expects Klefa to play on the big club down the stertch.. musil did play in ECHL this season.. So i dont haave to watch them if i can read the reports and check the stats..

That ends my rant!

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02-17-2014, 11:09 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
17 points in 65 games. Wow, I really missed that. Are we now attributing Stanley Cup wins to crappy players? Trevor Lewis and Dwight King also won the Stanely cup as passengers. Penner was also along for the ride

Penner has only started putting up points on a stacked Anaheim team with 2 great linemates.

If he had not being traded, he would have continued to be lazy and on the decline. In 2011 or 2012 when his value is at an all time low (he would have been on a much worse EDM team), Oiler fans would be demanding him to be traded, and we would have received a 3rd for him.

Penner was also traded while we were in a rebuilding phase, hence trading ageing players for prospects. If Klefbom has not gotten injured in the SEL last season he would have absolutly been in the NHL right now, and all would have been on plan. Instead he unfortunately got injured, so his NHL debut is delayed

Instead we received a 1st who turned into Klefbom, a prospect continually rated as a top 30 NHL prospect, who has been playing great in the AHL.

A potential top 4 or top 2 D is needed on the Oilers much more than a lazy, 30 goal scorer who wouldnt even been around anymore
Fixed, we easily lost the Penner deal. I have no clue how anyone can say we didn't. Can you imagine if we had kept him and still drafted RNH. Theres no way we would have been last in the league and get Yakupov. Also probably could have sheltered RNH between Hemsky and Penner and brought him up properly. If we had kept him and resigned him our Roster realistically could have looked like this considering we most likely pick lower in the Yakupov draft and last years.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
Perron-Gordon-UFA/Hendricks
Gazdic-Smyth-Jones

Ference-Trouba(9th pick in 2012)
Marincin-Petry
Belov-Schultz

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02-17-2014, 11:14 PM
  #42
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Fixed, we easily lost the Penner deal. I have no clue how anyone can say we didn't. Can you imagine if we had kept him and still drafted RNH. Theres no way we would have been last in the league and get Yakupov. Also probably could have sheltered RNH between Hemsky and Penner and brought him up properly. If we had kept him and resigned him our Roster realistically could have looked like this considering we most likely pick lower in the Yakupov draft and last years.

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
Perron-Gordon-UFA/Hendricks
Gazdic-Smyth-Jones

Ference-Trouba(9th pick in 2012)
Marincin-Petry
Belov-Schultz
We also might not have finishes last in 2011 and ended up with Adam Larsson instead...

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02-17-2014, 11:28 PM
  #43
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Fixed, we easily lost the Penner deal. I have no clue how anyone can say we didn't. Can you imagine if we had kept him and still drafted RNH. Theres no way we would have been last in the league and get Yakupov. Also probably could have sheltered RNH between Hemsky and Penner and brought him up properly. If we had kept him and resigned him our Roster realistically could have looked like this considering we most likely pick lower in the Yakupov draft and last years.
Penner had two bad seasons on a Stanley Cup team that featured Kopitar,Brown,Richards, Doughty and Carter, all of whom were better than Hall, Eberle (debateble for 2012) and whatever mess for forwards we had in 2011 to 2012. Penner would have been run out of Edmonton immediately in one of those years. Hell he was being run out in the year he was traded.

We are already seeing it with Gagner after 1/2 of a bad season, fans wanting him traded for Kyle ***** Clifford. The Penner hate would have been 100x worse.

Penner was a 30g scorer twice in his career, doing it 5 years apart. Im glad he has picked it up in Anahiem, but he has had 3 bad seasons prior to this, and did so on 2 pretty good teams (Ana and LA). Penner, and his 17 points in 2011-12 would have not of improved as at all considering he would have been a marginal increase over 8 point MPS (in 20 less games), MPS was also a better two player to

Also, he was a FA in 2012 & 2013, so if we had kept him, theres no guarantee we would have resigned him. And judging by him not signing in Edmonton in either FA period, I highly doubt he would have resigned in Edmonton ( a perennial bottom feeder in a terrible climate) if we would have kept him.

So we would have had 2 seasons of him playing sub-par 25 point hockey, and would have lost him in 2012 for nothing

I will take Klefbom 100/100 times

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02-17-2014, 11:39 PM
  #44
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We also might not have finishes last in 2011 and ended up with Adam Larsson instead...
Or Sean Couturier!!

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02-17-2014, 11:49 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Penner had two bad seasons on a Stanley Cup team that featured Kopitar,Brown,Richards, Doughty and Carter, all of whom were better than Hall, Eberle (debateble for 2012) and whatever mess for forwards we had in 2011 to 2012. Penner would have been run out of Edmonton immediately in one of those years. Hell he was being run out in the year he was traded.

We are already seeing it with Gagner after 1/2 of a bad season, fans wanting him traded for Kyle ***** Clifford. The Penner hate would have been 100x worse.

Penner was a 30g scorer twice in his career, doing it 5 years apart. Im glad he has picked it up in Anahiem, but he has had 3 bad seasons prior to this, and did so on 2 pretty good teams (Ana and LA). Penner, and his 17 points in 2011-12 would have not of improved as at all considering he would have been a marginal increase over 8 point MPS (in 20 less games), MPS was also a better two player to

Also, he was a FA in 2012 & 2013, so if we had kept him, theres no guarantee we would have resigned him. And judging by him not signing in Edmonton in either FA period, I highly doubt he would have resigned in Edmonton ( a perennial bottom feeder in a terrible climate) if we would have kept him.

So we would have had 2 seasons of him playing sub-par 25 point hockey, and would have lost him in 2012 for nothing

I will take Klefbom 100/100 times
I'm sure his down seasons had nothing to do with his back injury and divorce. I said it last june that Penner would rebound and the best thing for him would be to get out of LA. I figured he'd have to go further then Anaheim to do it but he's being put in a prime position in Anaheim and producing. I'm sure he would have produced here playing in the top 6. Imagine if we had signed him this year how much better this forward group could have looked. We need veterans on this team but for some reason the brain trust don't see it. Just for fun adding Penner to the current forward group we end up with this:

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Penner-Gagner-Yakupov
Perron-Gordon-Hemsky
Gazdic-Hendricks-Jones
Smyth

Looks a lot more rounded to me, but what do I know.

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02-17-2014, 11:56 PM
  #46
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I'm sure his down seasons had nothing to do with his back injury and divorce. I said it last june that Penner would rebound and the best thing for him would be to get out of LA. I figured he'd have to go further then Anaheim to do it but he's being put in a prime position in Anaheim and producing. I'm sure he would have produced here playing in the top 6. Imagine if we had signed him this year how much better this forward group could have looked. We need veterans on this team but for some reason the brain trust don't see it. Just for fun adding Penner to the current forward group we end up with this:

Hall-RNH-Eberle
Penner-Gagner-Yakupov
Perron-Gordon-Hemsky
Gazdic-Hendricks-Jones
Smyth

Looks a lot more rounded to me, but what do I know.
If we kept Penner, wed have him and Hall as LWs, and less cap space. We wouldnt have been motivated to go out and get Perron, and would not have had the cap space to get him. Although I do agree with you that thats a balanced top 6, and a pretty good top 9.

Theres a lot of "what ifs" but either way Im completely fine with the trade, even if we are still waiting on getting any NHL games out of the deal. It was a good move for a rebuilding team looking to add youth.

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02-18-2014, 12:27 AM
  #47
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This is pretty old time where we have to go off second/third-hand reports of how the guy is playing, because there's practically no way to watch the Barons play for most of us. We can go off the occasional highlight package and what coaches say, teammates say or what we've heard from scouting reports that are a year old.

Based on a (somewhat un)informed decision, I'd definitely take Klefbom. I think we can all give a more accurate opinion after next training camp in September, and even more so after the preseason.

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02-18-2014, 12:32 AM
  #48
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If Klefbom ends up being a top 4 shut down defender we win this trade. If he doesn't then our scouting lost us this trade, Tambellini didn't. I'm far from ready to give up on Klefbom, he won't be 21 years old until July (all of 3 months older than Yakupov).

Pre-injury 27gp. 0-3-3 -10 20sog. 6pim.

Post-injury 12gp. 0-3-3 -1 20sog. 4pim.

It seems like he's getting more comfortable on NA ice and that he's getting his season back on track.

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02-18-2014, 09:54 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
True but there is NO chance klefa would go down to ECHL and was going to be a callup to Oilers ahead of Marincin if he didnt get injured as per reports.. macT also expects Klefa to play on the big club down the stertch.. musil did play in ECHL this season.. So i dont haave to watch them if i can read the reports and check the stats..

That ends my rant!
I havent watched a lot but what I have seen has been Musil playing very well and Klefbom not so much. I would say Musil has been much more confident/steady/reliable than Klefbom in the games I have seen. That said Klefbom is a much, much better skater than Musil.

If Klefbom were all that he would have been up for some games already. I know he got hurt again but he is playing again now.

Ive also seen quite a few comments about how Klefa has a higher hockey IQ than Musil, which I find curious, because Musil is one of the smarter guys out there for the most part. He makes the most out of what he has and its because he thinks the game so well. Klefbom on the other hand has been prone to lots of gaffes and giveaways.

If Musil can improve his skating he fills a role here. Klefbom just needs more time to get his game together after missing so much time with injuries. I hope both players finish the year in OKC. Neither should be in the nhl this year.

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02-18-2014, 11:43 AM
  #50
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as oiler fans we should delete this thread and remake it with nothing but praise and accolades for Musil so we can put him in proposals on the main board to other teams for their actual effective players.

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