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How do we get better moving forward? No pun intended

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Old
02-17-2014, 10:00 AM
  #176
Enoch
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Originally Posted by AintLifeGrand View Post
Wilson and Ellis for Paranteau and a pick?
Quite the overpayment IMO. Parenteau has been scratched 3 straight games! I would love to have him though. Good target IMO!

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02-17-2014, 10:46 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
If I'm the GM I don't trade Wilson. He is not the problem. As I've said before and I'll say it again, two points. 1. Moving him to center was the best thing Trotz did. He looks more comfortable out there, is making plays and is using his size and a little bit of a mean streak. The points will come if he continues to play like he is. 2. Get him a finisher. A good playmaker needs someone who can shoot the puck and bury it. It's not his fault he doesn't have anyone on his line that can bury the puck. If he had a finisher, his numbers would go up as well.

You don't trade good pieces, you build around them and give them the pieces they need to succeed as well. Smith and Legwand have looked good together. Find a Smith like player to play alongside Wilson and I guarantee Wilson's numbers would be in the 60 pt a year range. If Legwand is indeed traded, I could see Wilson and Smith on a line together becoming quite the duo. Put Hornqvist on the other size possibly and you've got the playmaker, the sniper and the garbage pail guy in front of the net.
Exactly

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02-17-2014, 11:28 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
if i'm the gm i don't trade wilson. He is not the problem. As i've said before and i'll say it again, two points. 1. Moving him to center was the best thing trotz did. He looks more comfortable out there, is making plays and is using his size and a little bit of a mean streak. The points will come if he continues to play like he is. 2. Get him a finisher. A good playmaker needs someone who can shoot the puck and bury it. It's not his fault he doesn't have anyone on his line that can bury the puck. If he had a finisher, his numbers would go up as well.

You don't trade good pieces, you build around them and give them the pieces they need to succeed as well. Smith and legwand have looked good together. Find a smith like player to play alongside wilson and i guarantee wilson's numbers would be in the 60 pt a year range. If legwand is indeed traded, i could see wilson and smith on a line together becoming quite the duo. Put hornqvist on the other size possibly and you've got the playmaker, the sniper and the garbage pail guy in front of the net.
this is sooooo spot on!!!

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02-17-2014, 02:19 PM
  #179
triggrman
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Just as a fyi, from what I hear, we did not spend to budget last season, so it's not all on the owners.

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02-17-2014, 02:53 PM
  #180
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So i don't understand how Wilson gets a pass for not having someone that fits his style to play with. However, when you mention Stalbergs name it's not an issue and he should be able to put up points with Clune and Goose??

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02-17-2014, 03:02 PM
  #181
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Stalberg and Wilson should be playing together. I like their chemistry.

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02-17-2014, 05:10 PM
  #182
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Its becomes tiresome seeing some of our players being defended. Wilson should not receive a pass or critizem. His performance places him 7th on a team that is offensively struggling with the forwards. Cullen and Spaling have two less points and Seth Jones a rookie defenseman 3 points less than Wilson. Wilson is so frustrating akin to Stalberg both have skills and are not just producing. Both were preseason top 6 guys that were to be depended on. Wilsons BREAKOUT year has turned into a breakdown year. If he were the player we need for top 6 he would have better numbers no matter who he plays with. He has had the minutes and yes is hurt by no finisher. But at some point if he is going to be a large piece here he needs to produce. Otherwise it may be time to move on. Of course he could go to other teams just as Peverly and some others and be productive. But hes in a Preds sweater now and needs to produce is this system with these players if he does not then hes no good to this team. This can be said for a number of players on the team and in the system. Mosier looks great in the Olympics we can hope that transfers to his game here.

And as for Josi when this Olympics are over your gonna see a lot of people on HF pick up there stupid offers wanting him, that is a good thing. Its gonna be interesting to see what happens after the break and the short time til the trade deadline.

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02-17-2014, 06:17 PM
  #183
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I like Wilson but IMO he is just not getting it done. I don't think the organization is thrilled with hin either. They put to many eggs into Wilson/Stalberg/Smith. Smith is the only one who has risen to the occasion.
I think a change of system and scenery could do Wilson a lot of good. My gut tells me to hang on to him and see what happens after Trotz is canned and new ideas and fresh air are brought to the team. But then again i don't want the young guys to see a guy not producing and get to stay around.

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02-18-2014, 02:40 AM
  #184
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While I can understand people wanting to let Wilson go, I just keeps nagging me that the minute we do we will all be bashing our heads in because he just explodes.

I think Wilson's issues aren't really all that simple. I think after the surgeries he probably started out a bit slow, it happens. I think the other factors are the guy should really be playing center, and I think the guy needs someone to connect with. For whatever reason its there, you can see it, its just not happening though. Normally I would be all for moving him, but something in my gut keeps telling me we will regret that if we do.

I would like to see him and Smith with either Stalberg or Horny on the same line for a bit though just to see what would happen. If it goes bad then you do something else but I would at least give it a shot.

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02-18-2014, 06:10 AM
  #185
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The way Trotz uses centers, they will always be more defensive than offensive.

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02-18-2014, 08:26 AM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
No thanks. We need to build a real team not one of spare parts.
If you get enough top-quality spare parts, suddenly you have a real team.

The key word being "top-quality". That's not what we got last offseason, not by a long shot.

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02-18-2014, 10:32 AM
  #187
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i'd also like to see smith/wilson/stalberg.

but i also think we have a realstic shot at statsny. gonna cost us though. as will anyone.

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02-18-2014, 10:35 AM
  #188
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I would LOVE to see the Preds pick up Stastny. But I don't think it's all that likely. Man it would fix some things, though. Especially if Forsberg is also ready next year. That's a ton of offensive talent to plug into the lineup.

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02-18-2014, 10:50 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by MrJoshua View Post
I would LOVE to see the Preds pick up Stastny. But I don't think it's all that likely. Man it would fix some things, though. Especially if Forsberg is also ready next year. That's a ton of offensive talent to plug into the lineup.
With every team getting a bunch of cash added on to the cap this summer, I just don't see it either. But would be more than happy to be wrong!

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02-18-2014, 12:36 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
With every team getting a bunch of cash added on to the cap this summer, I just don't see it either. But would be more than happy to be wrong!
Exactly. The cap is going up. Everybody's going to be looking to spend for talent. I just don't see it. But man if it could happen...

Forsberg-Stastny-Hornqvist
Smith-Wilson-Stalberg
Cullen-Fisher-Bourque/Beck
Spaling-Gaustad-Nystrom
Clune-Beck/Bourque

That's MUCH better scoring depth. Maybe swap some people around a bit, but put that forward lineup with the existing defense and a healthy Pekka Rinne and watch the rest of the division start to sweat a little. With the youth and skill on that roster at all positions, that's a lineup that would be starting to open a real window of opportunity that could last for several years.

Of course that's making a couple of pretty big assumptions. One, that Stastny would sign here. And two, that Forsberg has developed enough in the minors to be a real contributor to the team. Not just on the scoresheet, but in the little details that make a complete player. I'd love to see it happen, though.

edit: And if Legwand sticks around the scoring depth looks even better. Put him on the second line with Smith and Wilson, slide Stalberg down to play with Cullen and Fisher, move Beck/Bourque down to the fourth or onto the bench. That's three lines that can legitimately threaten to score.

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02-18-2014, 02:10 PM
  #191
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Our offense will always struggle under the current system IMHO. It's too restrictive.

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02-18-2014, 02:26 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Our offense will always struggle under the current system IMHO. It's too restrictive.
Tend to agree.

We keep turning over the roster looking for new players who can play. We sign the wrong guys, we draft the wrong guys, we develop them wrong, etc, etc, etc. Same old story, over and over again.

At some point, you have to stop changing out the players and look at what the constants have been through 15 years of blah hockey.


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02-18-2014, 02:55 PM
  #193
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There hasn't been an issue developing from the goal out. However it's been the same dog and pony show forever with the coaching staff in relation to the forwards. I love the pieces that are on this team, but Trotz makes me want to pull my hair out with every period that goes by. Nystrom (even with his improved play) getting more icetime than Hornqvist and Wilson is crazy. Even if he's reached moderate success with his style, it's not going to get this team very far if your 3rd and 4th liners are first off the bench in the late stages of a game.

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02-18-2014, 03:01 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
There hasn't been an issue developing from the goal out. However it's been the same dog and pony show forever with the coaching staff in relation to the forwards. I love the pieces that are on this team, but Trotz makes me want to pull my hair out with every period that goes by. Nystrom (even with his improved play) getting more icetime than Hornqvist and Wilson is crazy. Even if he's reached moderate success with his style, it's not going to get this team very far if your 3rd and 4th liners are first off the bench in the late stages of a game.
That's the crux of the problem right there. Why does a grinder get more time than guys that are supposed to be top 6 players for us? I love Nystrom but seriously, your best players should be getting between 18-20 minutes a night, plain and simple. We complain about lack of production yet the TOI is not given properly for them to succeed. The more they're on the ice, the better feel for the game they'll have which in turn should lead to scoring opportunities which should lead to goals.

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02-18-2014, 03:16 PM
  #195
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Under Trotz system since day one the goal has been to score 1 more goal than you allow. He adjusts his lines accordingly, paying particular attention to match-ups. Like it or not he has been successful doing this. He knows this is not an offensive juggernaut And many times there is logic to his madness, on the surface it looks stupid to us. But putting players on the lower lines in an attempt to get them producing against weaker lines from the opponents is really nothing new. The issue the team is having rolling the lines allows for little chemistry on lines, its all about execution of the system.

It may well be time for a coaching change and a new system, however there is not one coach available that could do better with the roster the Preds currently have. Bringing in a offensive minded coach at this point would be a disaster IMO. This is the weakest set of forwards in the league as pointed out in another thread absent the defensive production this year the team would be at the bottom of the league. Scoring by committee has failed this year.

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02-18-2014, 04:00 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
The way Trotz uses centers, they will always be more defensive than offensive.
I don't think that is law. Arnott was just above average defensively and didn't know the meaning of back check, yet he thrived here. If Wilson was good enough offensively, his defensive shortcomings could be overlooked.

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02-18-2014, 04:16 PM
  #197
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I think if the top 6 could get it done and produce Nystrom or any other 4th liner would not be getting the amount of minutes they are. The fact is are top lines stink with the exception of Smith and at times Fisher.

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02-18-2014, 04:50 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Our offense will always struggle under the current system IMHO. It's too restrictive.
That depends on your definition of "always struggle". If you're talking "never near the top of the league", then, yes, that's fair; this is not a system that maximizes goal production. If, however, you're thinking "barely competitive" like right now, then that's overstating it. Defensive responsibility can be achieved without completely sacrificing offense; it's just that a greater degree of skill to make the opportunities that DO come count is going to be necessary. If you've got guys with higher offensive skill that can't play in a disciplined manner, then you're likely going to end up with a net loss in terms of goal differential - or, IOW, start caring about "just skill" player ToI when the Preds are up against teams that suck.

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02-18-2014, 05:52 PM
  #199
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I think if the top 6 could get it done and produce Nystrom or any other 4th liner would not be getting the amount of minutes they are. The fact is are top lines stink with the exception of Smith and at times Fisher.
I think historically, and certainly this season , you are incorrect.

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02-18-2014, 07:25 PM
  #200
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I think historically, and certainly this season , you are incorrect.
Really.. Last time i checked this year the defense was carrying the team and to make matters worse d men are being used in the shootouts because the forwards can't again "get it done"

So how am i incorrect? I am talking about this year not the past.

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