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"Cold War" | 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi | February 7-23 | Medal Count in Post #1

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02-19-2014, 01:18 AM
  #626
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I don't see why people get worked up about overall medal counts. Why concern yourself with something so arbitrary and unimportant, as a Canadian I'd take any hockey medal over the 20 speed skating medals the Netherlands has.

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02-19-2014, 01:24 AM
  #627
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Right now we're 5th or 6th in medal count. Even lower in gold count.

We're the 3rd most represented (athlete contingent) nation afairc. So yeah to some respect going any lower is disappointing. Its just that for decades we were conditioned to much worse from Canadian athletes. AKA as next to zero medals.

Heres a thought. No other nation other than Russia now has invested so heavily in the winter Olympics and including Canada hosting two Olympics in recent decades and with facilities for both widely available still. Canada should own quite a few events at the Olympic level. We have some of the best training facilities found anywhere and several other nations actually use our training facilities and many cases to better degree.

I'll tell you one thing that is most predominate in Canada even doing as well as it has in this Oly. This is the non drinking games. Sochi Olympic area is like a sleepy Mormon town. If the Canadian contingent was out partying hard, and theres lots of past games where that was on, then the medal count would likely be dismal.

We've come a long way and we haven't.
Well, they should move up in number of medals. Speedskating doesn't have that many more events left for the Dutch as an example. The Norwegians have already gone through a lot of their strong events.

Do you have numbers for the money spent on Sochi per country? I'm a bit surprised if they're outspending the Americans and Germans at least.

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02-19-2014, 02:11 AM
  #628
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Eh, I think that's kind of a strawman arguement. A person is going to train for 4 years and then sabotage their medal chances by going to some (likely) crappy bar the night before their event? Nah.

I mean I'm sure the athletes would be open to partying after their event is over but that's about it.

We have come a long way, there's no doubt about it.

Also in the past how many medals were we probably denied because we weren't allowed to send our best athletes from our best sport (hockey)? I'm sure the Germans or Norwegians would throw a nice fit if the best athletes from their top sport were suddenly not allowed to compete.
Well...a maximum of one per Olympics...so not many.

Overall I'm not disappointed with how Canada has done. We could have been better, but it hasn't been a disaster either. Getting a medal in alpine skiing and getting two in men's individual long track was big. Those are prestigious events that we seldom medal in. I'll take those over snowboard half pipe or slopestyle medals.

Basically, I want to beat the Americans in medals. They are our best comparable. Other countries rack up medals by dominating single disciplines that have a stupidly high number of events. If there was curling with only 6 ends, curling with 2, 4, and 6 rocks, hockey with 2 periods, hockey shootout, hockey 4 on 4, hockey 3 on 3.... we'd do the same.

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02-19-2014, 02:42 AM
  #629
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Originally Posted by Kyle McMahon View Post
Basically, I want to beat the Americans in medals. They are our best comparable. Other countries rack up medals by dominating single disciplines that have a stupidly high number of events. If there was curling with only 6 ends, curling with 2, 4, and 6 rocks, hockey with 2 periods, hockey shootout, hockey 4 on 4, hockey 3 on 3.... we'd do the same.
Yeah, pretty much.

The amount of medals in Nordic/Alpine/Cross-Country is ridiculous.

The worst part is these medals will probably always be dominated by certain countries. North America basically doesn't stand a chance unless you have a truly elite athlete like Ligerty or Vonn come along.

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02-19-2014, 03:04 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
I don't see why people get worked up about overall medal counts. Why concern yourself with something so arbitrary and unimportant, as a Canadian I'd take any hockey medal over the 20 speed skating medals the Netherlands has.
Its not like any of us are sitting here gnashing and clenching our teeth and throwing our mouse through our monitor about it.

It was just an objective consideration of where Canada should fall in the Olympic scheme of things. Particularly In the Winter Olympics where we have every countless advantage.

It shouldn't be a surprise that a very affluent country with virtually limitless per capita resources, that sends out one of the largest contingents in the world, and that experiences winter as much as any country in the world through the large expanse of its borders and has every winter terrain imaginable, and every winter facility ever imagine in abundance, should do very well in the Winter Olympics. We're practically speaking a Winter Olympics factory except without the stellar results.

WE should be a powerhouse in the winter Olympics. Really only the Russians and maybe the US should ever be ahead of us. We're just not conditioned to thinking that Canada. and Canadians, should be great at anything outside of hockey.

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02-19-2014, 01:07 PM
  #631
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Gold in women's bobsleigh!

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02-19-2014, 01:07 PM
  #632
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Gold! Its GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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02-19-2014, 01:11 PM
  #633
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Kaillie was incredible. Such consistency through all 4 runs.

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02-19-2014, 02:05 PM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Its not like any of us are sitting here gnashing and clenching our teeth and throwing our mouse through our monitor about it.

It was just an objective consideration of where Canada should fall in the Olympic scheme of things. Particularly In the Winter Olympics where we have every countless advantage.

It shouldn't be a surprise that a very affluent country with virtually limitless per capita resources, that sends out one of the largest contingents in the world, and that experiences winter as much as any country in the world through the large expanse of its borders and has every winter terrain imaginable, and every winter facility ever imagine in abundance, should do very well in the Winter Olympics. We're practically speaking a Winter Olympics factory except without the stellar results.

WE should be a powerhouse in the winter Olympics. Really only the Russians and maybe the US should ever be ahead of us. We're just not conditioned to thinking that Canada. and Canadians, should be great at anything outside of hockey.
That's not really what my point is. I'm saying that the overall medal count is a terrible way to judge the success of a country since an event like speed skating has so many variations and can result in so many medals.
Most of these sports are of little consequence to people of this country, an

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02-19-2014, 02:12 PM
  #635
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Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
I don't see why people get worked up about overall medal counts. Why concern yourself with something so arbitrary and unimportant, as a Canadian I'd take any hockey medal over the 20 speed skating medals the Netherlands has.
See, as a Canadian I think the 20 speed skating medals Holland has accrued at these Olympics is more impressive than any Gold medal in hockey ever could be.

Canada is more than just a hockey nation and its importance is not the be all and end all IMO. It is no more or less important than any other sport in the Olympics even if it is given an inflated sense of worth.

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02-19-2014, 02:29 PM
  #636
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See, as a Canadian I think the 20 speed skating medals Holland has accrued at these Olympics is more impressive than any Gold medal in hockey ever could be.

Canada is more than just a hockey nation and its importance is not the be all and end all IMO. It is no more or less important than any other sport in the Olympics even if it is given an inflated sense of worth.
Winning all those medals is extremely impressive, they dominate in speed skating, not the Winter Olympics. I just think that if we're ranking the countries performance at the Olympics it should represent that.

And having so many variations of an event certainly doesn't diminish the value of an medal placing at all, but in my opinion it just doesn't make for a good national ranking. If you could find an overall winner for each sport and rank them based on that it would seem to make more sense.

It's the same thing I see in the summer where there are 17 different swimming events. So 17 events, mens + womens, bronze/silver/gold, and they're handing out over 100 medals for just swimming (not including synchronized). That can have massive influence on the medal count. Speed skating or any other sport with so many events is no more or less important than any other sport in the Olympics even if it is given an inflated sense of worth.

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02-19-2014, 03:05 PM
  #637
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Originally Posted by 40oz View Post
Winning all those medals is extremely impressive, they dominate in speed skating, not the Winter Olympics. I just think that if we're ranking the countries performance at the Olympics it should represent that.

And having so many variations of an event certainly doesn't diminish the value of an medal placing at all, but in my opinion it just doesn't make for a good national ranking. If you could find an overall winner for each sport and rank them based on that it would seem to make more sense.

It's the same thing I see in the summer where there are 17 different swimming events. So 17 events, mens + womens, bronze/silver/gold, and they're handing out over 100 medals for just swimming (not including synchronized). That can have massive influence on the medal count. Speed skating or any other sport with so many events is no more or less important than any other sport in the Olympics even if it is given an inflated sense of worth.
It's hard to disagree with that.

As a whole, Holland definitely isn't anywhere as strong overall as a nation as the other top Winter Olympic countries. Hard to see their dominance and performance on the long track oval at these games as anything other than somewhat of a perfect storm as they find themselves in a golden age of long track. Not a feat I'd expect to see ever repeated again, at least in the manner that the Dutch are doing it in Sochi but it's troubling to see the lack of Canadian and Korean competition, especially after Vancouver. While it doesn't diminish the medals, I would argue that it's not a good thing for the sport either.

It'd be interesting to see where the United States would be in the Summer Olympics medal tally without their dominance in swimming. Like you mentioned, the sports with multiple disciplines do tend to have the ability way the count in a significant manner; especially when those countries (Holland, US) disproportionately invest more in those sports (Long track, Swimming) then almost every other country combined. The only way to make these sports more competitive is for other countries to have greater vested interest and more resources available for their athletes if they looking to compete with the big powers other than being happy with snagging the odd medal here and there.

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02-19-2014, 03:17 PM
  #638
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I think 15-16 medals per Winter games is a decent baseline for Canada to aim for. If they get more than that, great. 20+ is just swell.

Russia might win 24+ but this Olympics will probably always have a blemish on it for them because their hockey team didn't even medal on home ice ... so there's always that, lol.

I'm not really a "I'm a Canadian sports fan, you Canadian athletes owe me something, you better not screw up" type, it's more I want the medals not for national pride or some arbitrary medal number so much as I want to see our athletes get rewarded for all the effort they put in to their training.

And yeah as mentioned above "medal count" can be wildly misleading with the disproportionate amount of medals in certain events. I'm not going to tell a Canadian athlete in a sport that only awards 1 medal that his/her funding is getting cut so that we can focus on a sport that awards more medals just so we can have some arbitrary medal count.


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02-19-2014, 03:19 PM
  #639
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That's not really what my point is. I'm saying that the overall medal count is a terrible way to judge the success of a country since an event like speed skating has so many variations and can result in so many medals.
Most of these sports are of little consequence to people of this country, an
Thanks for clarifying. Its kind of a mystery though what makes one sport so big in one country and another one big in another. We're all similar countries with similar climates. Why selective passion be it Canada, Norway or any country?

way too philosophical a rhetorical question for topic at hand I realize but..

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02-19-2014, 03:21 PM
  #640
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I think 15-16 medals per Winter games is a decent baseline for Canada to aim for. If they get more than that, great. 20+ is just swell.

Russia might win 24+ but this Olympics will probably always have a blemish on it for them because their hockey team didn't even medal on home ice ... so there's always that, lol.
agreed. There's going to be a lot of variation given how much luck plays into every Olympics.

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02-19-2014, 03:26 PM
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Kaillie was incredible. Such consistency through all 4 runs.
Great win and not diminishing it at all but consistency is a hallmark of the top sledders. Once you have mastery over a track these days that's it. Whoever has strongest push and reads best line.

Also that present day bobsled runs are very forgiving and for obvious reason after Vancouver.
The turns now are such that few if any sleds are careening out of control, the bumps are minor, and hardly any time lost. The sleds are also different now and absorb side bumps differently. Sleds used to really go careening from one bump to another once the driver touched a wall. This rarely happens anymore.

This is now more and more about how you start, speed you can generate, and finding the line. Do that and you can make mistakes and still win and with very similar times.

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02-19-2014, 04:36 PM
  #642
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I think Germany Canada's Russia and Usa performances at Olympics are the most Impressive they all have Medals in a combination of different events. Norway Skiing and The Dutch with all long tracks really show one event athletes. I'm sure if Canadians and other countries concentrated on one specific sport as well could dominate those events as well imo.

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02-19-2014, 04:39 PM
  #643
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So.... i don't want to work on friday at 10 am.

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02-19-2014, 05:24 PM
  #644
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It's the same thing I see in the summer where there are 17 different swimming events. So 17 events, mens + womens, bronze/silver/gold, and they're handing out over 100 medals for just swimming (not including synchronized). That can have massive influence on the medal count. Speed skating or any other sport with so many events is no more or less important than any other sport in the Olympics even if it is given an inflated sense of worth.
We just need some creative accounting, start counting actual medals and not just events. Hockey teams get what 23-30 medals each once you count the coaches etc, Curlers get 4-6, this thing is in the bag for whoever wins the Hockey tourney.

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02-19-2014, 05:54 PM
  #645
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So.... i don't want to work on friday at 10 am.
No kidding. I have a "save the client" meeting at that time. Should be as much fun as a visit for a prostate exam.

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02-19-2014, 06:07 PM
  #646
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No kidding. I have a "save the client" meeting at that time. Should be as much fun as a visit for a prostate exam.
The thing is that the US - CAN game might be one of those "Greatest Games of your Generation" type of games. I don't want to miss that.

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02-19-2014, 06:55 PM
  #647
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Great win and not diminishing it at all but consistency is a hallmark of the top sledders. Once you have mastery over a track these days that's it. Whoever has strongest push and reads best line.

Also that present day bobsled runs are very forgiving and for obvious reason after Vancouver.
The turns now are such that few if any sleds are careening out of control, the bumps are minor, and hardly any time lost. The sleds are also different now and absorb side bumps differently. Sleds used to really go careening from one bump to another once the driver touched a wall. This rarely happens anymore.

This is now more and more about how you start, speed you can generate, and finding the line. Do that and you can make mistakes and still win and with very similar times.
I have to ask, did you watch the entire Women's bobsled event today? Because Canada's gold medal winner was one of the few sleds that got down that run in the way that you describe...I saw a LOT of teams banging their way down the track, careening through curves so badly that some would touch the top barricade. I'm frankly amazed that Team Brazil managed to get down without killing themselves. Even USA's silver medal winners was making huge gaffes on their final run, IMO they lost the gold as much as Canada won it.

I'd say your observation is much more accurate with the men's teams, it's obvious the women's side has a much wider disparity in talent between the top teams and the rest.

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02-19-2014, 06:57 PM
  #648
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So.... i don't want to work on friday at 10 am.
All I can say in my case is thank goodness for flex days.

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02-19-2014, 07:19 PM
  #649
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We just need some creative accounting, start counting actual medals and not just events. Hockey teams get what 23-30 medals each once you count the coaches etc, Curlers get 4-6, this thing is in the bag for whoever wins the Hockey tourney.
With the Canadian dollar dropping, we should just judge the athletes on the total mass of precious metals they bring home.

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02-19-2014, 07:26 PM
  #650
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I think Germany Canada's Russia and Usa performances at Olympics are the most Impressive they all have Medals in a combination of different events. Norway Skiing and The Dutch with all long tracks really show one event athletes. I'm sure if Canadians and other countries concentrated on one specific sport as well could dominate those events as well imo.
We already do, it's called Hockey. Men's and Women's

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