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Why is Graves' slash on Lemieux in 92 defended so much?

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Old
02-19-2014, 11:11 PM
  #1
SnowblindNYR
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Why is Graves' slash on Lemieux in 92 defended so much?

I don't know if it's Deja Vu, but I may have asked this before. If I did, apologies I don't remember the responses.

So according to JD it was a "2 handed chop". I know that the league was different then but I still can't see any scenario it wasn't dirty. Instead you get Rangers fans ridicule the league for suspending him and even more ridiculous to me ridicule Lemieux on that play. The guy was out for the series, it's not like he was faking it. Why can't Rangers fans come to grips that a classy player and grade A human being may have had 1 dirty play and not make excuses? You'd think that everyone but Graves was at fault for that play. I'm not questioning what he meant to the franchise and what a grade A person he is, but I can't figure out how you can excuse that play. I'd say the same thing if Zuccarello, one of my favorite players now did the same to Crosby who I hate with a passion.

What am I missing?

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02-19-2014, 11:45 PM
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Captain Monglobster
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I think the part you're missing is **** the Penguins.


Last edited by Killem Dafoe: 02-20-2014 at 04:24 AM. Reason: language
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Old
02-19-2014, 11:51 PM
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x BEUKEBOOM x
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I think the part you're missing is **** the Penguins.
I concur.


Last edited by Killem Dafoe: 02-20-2014 at 04:24 AM.
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Old
02-20-2014, 01:05 AM
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I concur.
Yep, that sums it up pretty nicely.

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02-20-2014, 04:31 AM
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Also I would additionally point to the fact that, **** the Penguins.

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02-20-2014, 04:44 AM
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Ola
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After the 30 sec mark.

Graves must have had really strong arms!

Seriously though, I think these things were much more common back then. You got a scoring chance, the D would chop away at you. I wouldn't say that players broke their arms on a regular basis, but it was not unusual.

The ref's called hard slashes. But they let go taps on the glows. One ref on the ice, if the puck was put in traffic those slashes weren't easy to detect.

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Old
02-20-2014, 06:52 AM
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eco's bones
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I remember hearing that Lemieux took all the padding out of his gloves for greater flexibility. Well--whatever. Mario was always a dick IMO. That chop by Graves was pretty nasty but it wasn't anything unusual to see practically every game in those days. Really--you had Samuelsson and Kasparaitis running around with their knee to knee hits and those were cool. Scott Stevens handing out head shots left and right--concussions galore and no problem and this is what they decided to highlight because Lemieux and Gretzky were the two guys they marketed the game around. Messier was another one. Some players are immune because of their star status. Malkin slew foots and makes dangerous plays all the time. No suspensions. Messier put a lot of people in the hospital--no suspensions for him either.

Lemieux hypocritically complaining about dirty play and employing Matt Cooke and Brooks Orpik and the unsuspendable Malkin. There you go. It's like Bobbly Clarke--one of the dirtiest players of all time talking about cleaning up the game.

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02-20-2014, 07:19 AM
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either this was a nasty game or the whole league was up to no good back then. Slew foots, late hits, slashing. You got it all.

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02-20-2014, 07:41 AM
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I may be totally wrong and if I am please feel free to correct me but didn't it have something to do with **** the penguins? Also nice to see snow can ask for objectivity when it comes to everyone but Lundqvist lol.

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02-20-2014, 07:55 AM
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I'm completely objective when it comes to Lundqvist. My opinion just differs from yours, so you think I have ulterior motives.

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02-20-2014, 08:19 AM
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Because Lemieux was the Crosby of his era, and he deserved it.

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Old
02-20-2014, 08:21 AM
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I'm completely objective when it comes to Lundqvist. My opinion just differs from yours, so you think I have ulterior motives.
You took the best goalie of this generation to task for having a bad couple of weeks. Yea, real objective.

I actually agree with you on this play. It was dirty on Graves' part - Im assuming you were too young to remember it...a nice short clip fits in nicely with your line of thinking.

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02-20-2014, 08:23 AM
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It was a nasty play. But par for the course in the 90s.

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Old
02-20-2014, 08:28 AM
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It was a nasty play. But par for the course in the 90s.
It was also a trade-off any Ranger fan would take in 1992. Losing that series still haunts any long-time Ranger fan.

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02-20-2014, 08:30 AM
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No this was real hockey...I keep telling the kids here that todays version is soft and watered down...No crying for suspensions no crying on border line cheap hits it was a tough sport played by tough guys who rarely dived or begged for calls.




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either this was a nasty game or the whole league was up to no good back then. Slew foots, late hits, slashing. You got it all.

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Old
02-20-2014, 08:35 AM
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No this was real hockey...I keep telling the kids here that todays version is soft and watered down...No crying for suspensions no crying on border line cheap hits it was a tough sport played by tough guys who rarely dived or begged for calls.
Oh totally. When you can slash a guy and break his wrist - THATS when men were men

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02-20-2014, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You took the best goalie of this generation to task for having a bad couple of weeks. Yea, real objective.

I actually agree with you on this play. It was dirty on Graves' part - Im assuming you were too young to remember it...a nice short clip fits in nicely with your line of thinking.
It was more than a couple of weeks it was almost half a season. He deserved it, he played like a scrub, especially after signing a huge contract. What line of thinking? I admitted that I know it was a different league back then. You agreed it was a dirty play by Graves and then still take a shot at me. Can you reply to a post of mine without being an ******* for once? It's getting old. Seriously, you must be a lovely human being to be around in real life. Arrogant and insulting at every turn. Where I come from that's called a grade A *******.

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02-20-2014, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
No this was real hockey...I keep telling the kids here that todays version is soft and watered down...No crying for suspensions no crying on border line cheap hits it was a tough sport played by tough guys who rarely dived or begged for calls.
Real hockey. Unbelievable. Just because it was hockey it was ok to break wrists. I'm just speechless what is it about hockey that makes being a ******* ok?

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02-20-2014, 08:57 AM
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For his time Graves was not a dirty player. He was definitely hard nosed. He didn't take **** and he defended his teammates on every single occasion against anybody no matter how tough. IMO he's the penultimate Rangers player willing to defend his teammates since I started following this team. You messed with his teammates and you would have to deal with him. About as honest in the way he played as you can get.

Hockey in the 80's and 90's isn't what it is today. It was a bit more like war. Eric Lindros who for several seasons was arguably the best player in the league played like a guided missile. He was huge and fast--kind of like Milan Lucic with Ovechkin like skating and Malkin like skill. He would piledrive players head first into the boards without a second thought and he could hang with most of the league's heavy's in a fight. Messier sent numerous players to the hospital. Ditto for Scott Stevens. Chris Chelios was nasty as you could get. Mario Lemieux himself was quite capable of using his stick like it was a baseball bat. Chris Pronger, Brendan Shanahan, Cam Neely were nasty as well. Ray Bourque was not overly aggressive and only 5'11 but he was built like and could hit like a truck. These were the league's elite players. No problem with physical play. Guys like Claude Lemieux, Ulf Samuelsson, Kasparaitis running around. Bob Probert-one of the best fighters ever and he could play. Joe Kocur could play. Tie Domi could play. It was an entertaining rock 'em sock 'em game. Today's rivalries between us and the Islanders, Devils and Flyers were built out of lots of blood spilled.

Judging Graves slash on Lemieux by today's standards of decorum is really ****ing goofy IMO.

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02-20-2014, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
For his time Graves was not a dirty player. He was definitely hard nosed. He didn't take **** and he defended his teammates on every single occasion against anybody no matter how tough. IMO he's the penultimate Rangers player willing to defend his teammates since I started following this team. You messed with his teammates and you would have to deal with him. About as honest in the way he played as you can get.

Hockey in the 80's and 90's isn't what it is today. It was a bit more like war. Eric Lindros who for several seasons was arguably the best player in the league played like a guided missile. He was huge and fast--kind of like Milan Lucic with Ovechkin like skating and Malkin like skill. He would piledrive players head first into the boards without a second thought and he could hang with most of the league's heavy's in a fight. Messier sent numerous players to the hospital. Ditto for Scott Stevens. Chris Chelios was nasty as you could get. Mario Lemieux himself was quite capable of using his stick like it was a baseball bat. Chris Pronger, Brendan Shanahan, Cam Neely were nasty as well. Ray Bourque was not overly aggressive and only 5'11 but he was built like and could hit like a truck. These were the league's elite players. No problem with physical play. Guys like Claude Lemieux, Ulf Samuelsson, Kasparaitis running around. Bob Probert-one of the best fighters ever and he could play. Joe Kocur could play. Tie Domi could play. It was an entertaining rock 'em sock 'em game. Today's rivalries between us and the Islanders, Devils and Flyers were built out of lots of blood spilled.

Judging Graves slash on Lemieux by today's standards of decorum is really ****ing goofy IMO.
I understand that and even mentioned it. However, I just can't for the life of me understand why players being dirty is justified because the league was ****ed up then.

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02-20-2014, 09:26 AM
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I see no reason to criticize players for playing the game by the standards of their time...I really don't. It's one thing to wish the game was still played that way. It's another to criticize players for playing that way at that time.

What are you looking for in this thread? You want Rangers fans to be critical of Graves there? I think that's wrong. If you want Rangers fans to admit it was dirty by today's standards, then sure, I think we can all agree on that.

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02-20-2014, 09:34 AM
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I see no reason to criticize players for playing the game by the standards of their time...I really don't. It's one thing to wish the game was still played that way. It's another to criticize players for playing that way at that time.

What are you looking for in this thread? You want Rangers fans to be critical of Graves there? I think that's wrong. If you want Rangers fans to admit it was dirty by today's standards, then sure, I think we can all agree on that.
I don't know. I don't think chopping at someone's hand with a large stick using both hands is cool no matter what the context. I mean maybe it's ok if the guy broke into your house to rob you. Because other players were dirty doesn't mean Graves' play wasn't.

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02-20-2014, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surf View Post
No this was real hockey...I keep telling the kids here that todays version is soft and watered down...No crying for suspensions no crying on border line cheap hits it was a tough sport played by tough guys who rarely dived or begged for calls.
The game definitely isn't as brutal as it was just ten years ago. Hence why I have a problem with people comparing the durability of like Cally with Peca for example. Go back and watch like those NYI/Tor/Ott POs series during the late 90's and early 00's. There are easily two suspendable hits per period. Any team that one of those series had nothing left against the next team they faces.

I am at all sure that players born in like 85' will start to break down when they are 32/33. Some will always drop in production, but that's another issue (environment/how well you take care of yourself/etc).

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02-20-2014, 09:44 AM
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I forget. Did Graves ever have to answer the bell for that slash?

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02-20-2014, 09:49 AM
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Real hockey. Unbelievable. Just because it was hockey it was ok to break wrists. I'm just speechless what is it about hockey that makes being a ******* ok?
You play to win the game and that includes doing what is necessary in order to ensure victory. If viciousness, brutality, physical intimidation, and even injury are needed to gain an advantage so be it. Is it "ok" to break an opponent's wrist in hockey? No, and the offending player will most likely be assessed a penalty and/or suspension, and I would agree that it amounts to a dirty play. That does not mean it was not a smart play and advantageous. There is a tradeoff and if the utility of taking the opposition's best player off of the ice for a series exceeds that of a 2-4 minute penalty and subsequent suspension, the choice is made.

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