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Is Ryder being misused?

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Old
02-11-2007, 10:54 PM
  #26
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well he definately is a sniper so yeah he probably is being misused.

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02-11-2007, 10:55 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
You have stated the obvious, but no one here hass the balls to say Koivu is a 2nd line centre and he is not a true set up man.

Ryder could thrive in Montreal if a true playmaking 1st line legit centre was brought in to feed the puck to him. I think Ryder carries the puck too much too, but his centre in Koivu losses it as much as him because he doesn't dish it when he should.

Look at Cheechoo, he is having a bad year this year but he was always a goal scorer with the ability to be a 30+ guy. The Sharks go out and get him the centre he needs in Thornton and what does he do? Wins the Rocket Richard Trophy and becomes a 50 goal scorer. Gainey if he is smart gets that type of player for Ryder.

Kurri had Gretzky.
Hull had Oates.
Andreychuk had Turgeon, Lafontaine, Hawerchuk and Gilmour.
Neely had Janney and Oates.

There are so many players out there that were good or great goal scorers, none were setting themselves up by themself all the time. They had a playmaker who did the right pass, found their shooter open and had the skill and creativity to get that puck on their stick.

Koivu is not and can not do that.

Like you said, Ryder needs a good centreman and we do not have it...so to me the Ryder slump is not all his fault, people need to realize that instead of having a target on one player.


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02-11-2007, 11:29 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
Is Ryder being misused? Da*n right he is; he should be flipping burgers in Newfoundland.

EDIT: This is only a joke; Ryder is a very kind guy and I hope the best for his career.
Hahaha...I like Ryder, but I have to admit, that was funny.

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02-11-2007, 11:38 PM
  #29
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Woulda been better if he used cod fishing instead of fast food. That might just be me though.

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02-11-2007, 11:50 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
You have stated the obvious, but no one here hass the balls to say Koivu is a 2nd line centre and he is not a true set up man.

Ryder could thrive in Montreal if a true playmaking 1st line legit centre was brought in to feed the puck to him. I think Ryder carries the puck too much too, but his centre in Koivu losses it as much as him because he doesn't dish it when he should.

Look at Cheechoo, he is having a bad year this year but he was always a goal scorer with the ability to be a 30+ guy. The Sharks go out and get him the centre he needs in Thornton and what does he do? Wins the Rocket Richard Trophy and becomes a 50 goal scorer. Gainey if he is smart gets that type of player for Ryder.

Kurri had Gretzky.
Hull had Oates.
Andreychuk had Turgeon, Lafontaine, Hawerchuk and Gilmour.
Neely had Janney and Oates.

There are so many players out there that were good or great goal scorers, none were setting themselves up by themself all the time. They had a playmaker who did the right pass, found their shooter open and had the skill and creativity to get that puck on their stick.

Koivu is not and can not do that.

Like you said, Ryder needs a good centreman and we do not have it...so to me the Ryder slump is not all his fault, people need to realize that instead of having a target on one player.

I think you can argue both ways, Ryder would be a better player if he played with a Center like Thornton and Koivu would play better if he was given 1st line wingers. You definitely have an arguement that Koivu would not be a 1st line center on most teams, but I think I have a stronger arguement that Ryder would not be a 1st line winger on any team.

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02-11-2007, 11:52 PM
  #31
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Woulda been better if he used cod fishing instead of fast food. That might just be me though.
I like you're thinking HexCopterKey

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Old
02-11-2007, 11:57 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
You have stated the obvious, but no one here hass the balls to say Koivu is a 2nd line centre and he is not a true set up man.

Ryder could thrive in Montreal if a true playmaking 1st line legit centre was brought in to feed the puck to him. I think Ryder carries the puck too much too, but his centre in Koivu losses it as much as him because he doesn't dish it when he should.

Look at Cheechoo, he is having a bad year this year but he was always a goal scorer with the ability to be a 30+ guy. The Sharks go out and get him the centre he needs in Thornton and what does he do? Wins the Rocket Richard Trophy and becomes a 50 goal scorer. Gainey if he is smart gets that type of player for Ryder.

Kurri had Gretzky.
Hull had Oates.
Andreychuk had Turgeon, Lafontaine, Hawerchuk and Gilmour.
Neely had Janney and Oates.

There are so many players out there that were good or great goal scorers, none were setting themselves up by themself all the time. They had a playmaker who did the right pass, found their shooter open and had the skill and creativity to get that puck on their stick.

Koivu is not and can not do that.

Like you said, Ryder needs a good centreman and we do not have it...so to me the Ryder slump is not all his fault, people need to realize that instead of having a target on one player.
Whatever Koivu's limitations, maybe Ryder isn't in the same league as the world-class snipers you listed?

I'm not really sure what's going on with all the Ryder criticism. He just is what he is. He's never been a very good playmaker (at least when his feet are moving), he's not very fast, and he doesn't have an impressive array of dekes. But he can score in bunches and he usually gives an honest effort.

I doubt that the coaches have instructed him to carry the puck and try to distribute it while thinking less about shooting. He's just playing hockey. He tries a deke, it fails. He carries the puck, doesn't see an open Higgins. That's just Ryder the player. But he has a great shot, one that he and his linemates have to find a way to use more than he's managed to over the past few weeks. I think that's all there is to it.

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02-12-2007, 12:03 AM
  #33
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Our forwards are ******* and he likes to dangle even tho he cant.

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02-12-2007, 12:07 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Ryder takes alot of flak on these boards for his play this year and I can't say I disagree. He's been pretty brutal and inconsistent.

That being said, after attending the game on Saturday and noticing a few things, I'm starting to think it isn't necessarily all Ryder's fault. He's being misused.

Ryder is not the guy to be taking the puck into the zone. He's not the guy to be setting up plays or fishing the puck out of the corners. He should be in the soft spots, waiting for a pass that he can convert. He should never have the puck for more than a half second.

So why does he always end up leading the rush into the zone, or fishing the puck out of the corners for Koivu? He should never be the one doing that stuff, but he always is. And the result ends up being a turnover.

Ryder has been brutal and yet, he isn't punished for it. The only reason I see for this is that he's doing what he's told to do. Could the coaches WANT him to be leading the rush and going in the corners? I really don't see any other reason for him to be continuously playing top line minutes.
Hockey is not basketball where you hand the ball to the point guard on the inbounds and have him take it up the floor, depending on what side youbreak out on and what pressure you have been up against the puck will end up on your stick and you may find yourself leading the rush. As a winger Ryder also has to be in his corner at times too, that is what wingers do. When the puck is on the opposite corner he can slip down for a shot. You can script power plays more easily but 5 on 5 is tough to script a player always jumping in to a hole.

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02-12-2007, 12:08 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
Is Ryder being misused? Da*n right he is; he should be flipping burgers in Newfoundland.

EDIT: This is only a joke; Ryder is a very kind guy and I hope the best for his career.
ryder IS that player that needs to jus stand there and wait for the open shots if he wants to get goals....but he's not good enough or hasn't proved enough to be that player who waits for the shot and can be lazy....he has to work hard to get goals and prove that he can be an elite goal scorer....
plus, carbo's line is pretty defensive.....

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02-12-2007, 01:06 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
I think the coach is trying to get him to round out his game, to improve his passing and playmaking abilities and to learn how to fish the puck out of the corners. I think he's doing this because they see Ryder as a long-term fixture on the team. If this wasn't the case, why hasn't he been benched yet?
He didn't bench him , but he demoted him .

Once again , that doesn't make sens to think that Carboneau asked him to play that way . Common ! we are in a big slump and you think that they want him " to learn how to improve his passing abilities '' ? The only thing they want is that Ryder , or whoever , put goals in the net .

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02-12-2007, 01:20 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
misused? No...

I don't think the coaching staff is asking him to carry the puck...He's doing it by himself and I don't know why because he sucks...

The main problem with Ryder is that he don't trust his linemates so he never pass the freaking puck. That leads to many missed scoring chances and many turnovers.

So he's not being misused and he don't fit well in Montreal. He would blossom on a line with a great player in a smoother environment.
yeah , i guess we really don't want that to happen to him here in montreal .

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02-12-2007, 01:46 AM
  #38
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man, i cant believe a guy that has over 5000 post thinks Ryder is being mis-used. He played with Koivu almost all season long because we all know when he's playing with another center, he cant even pulled a shot on net. Why the hell is he mis-used?

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02-12-2007, 01:53 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Ryder takes alot of flak on these boards for his play this year and I can't say I disagree. He's been pretty brutal and inconsistent.

That being said, after attending the game on Saturday and noticing a few things, I'm starting to think it isn't necessarily all Ryder's fault. He's being misused.

Ryder is not the guy to be taking the puck into the zone. He's not the guy to be setting up plays or fishing the puck out of the corners. He should be in the soft spots, waiting for a pass that he can convert. He should never have the puck for more than a half second.

So why does he always end up leading the rush into the zone, or fishing the puck out of the corners for Koivu? He should never be the one doing that stuff, but he always is. And the result ends up being a turnover.

Ryder has been brutal and yet, he isn't punished for it. The only reason I see for this is that he's doing what he's told to do. Could the coaches WANT him to be leading the rush and going in the corners? I really don't see any other reason for him to be continuously playing top line minutes.

I agree with you. But I dont know if ryder agrees with us. There's been plenty of occasions where he had the chance to dish the puck to koivu and let him carry the puck up the ice. He refuses to do it. I think he's another player who is thinking too much on the ice..... trying to do too much.

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02-12-2007, 01:54 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by PanniniClaus View Post
Hockey is not basketball where you hand the ball to the point guard on the inbounds and have him take it up the floor, depending on what side youbreak out on and what pressure you have been up against the puck will end up on your stick and you may find yourself leading the rush. As a winger Ryder also has to be in his corner at times too, that is what wingers do. When the puck is on the opposite corner he can slip down for a shot. You can script power plays more easily but 5 on 5 is tough to script a player always jumping in to a hole.
Look next time at how Koivu and Higgins hang back while Ryder stays above the point waiting for the breakout pass. He does it every time. He's not doing it because he's lazy, he's clearly doing it because he's told to. They always give him the puck, unless he's not availible.

Ryder does sometimes need to be in the corner, but he's almost never in the slot and it's always Koivu in front of the net waiting to bang pucks in from Ryder. It makes no sense to me and they both know better so I don't know why they're always set up like that.

Look at where Ryder is on the PP. He's never ever in a soft spot.

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Originally Posted by antidot View Post
He didn't bench him , but he demoted him .

Once again , that doesn't make sens to think that Carboneau asked him to play that way . Common ! we are in a big slump and you think that they want him " to learn how to improve his passing abilities '' ? The only thing they want is that Ryder , or whoever , put goals in the net .
If this team was not concerned with the development of it's future talent, Latendresse would not be on this team. They said when he made the team that he was there to learn and was not expected to be a big time contributor. The fact that he plays top 6 minutes and contributes little shows that they are concerned with development.

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02-12-2007, 01:56 AM
  #41
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man, i cant believe a guy that has over 5000 post thinks Ryder is being mis-used. He played with Koivu almost all season long because we all know when he's playing with another center, he cant even pulled a shot on net. Why the hell is he mis-used?
I don't think you really understand.

He's being misused in the sense that he's being told to do things he's not suited for. It has nothing to do with who he's playing with. Did you even read my post?

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02-12-2007, 09:22 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post

If this team was not concerned with the development of it's future talent, Latendresse would not be on this team. They said when he made the team that he was there to learn and was not expected to be a big time contributor. The fact that he plays top 6 minutes and contributes little shows that they are concerned with development.
Latendresse ? it was not in a slump situation that they decided to keep him , and he wasn't on the first lines at the begining of the season . They slowly gave him more ice .

with a lot of time on the 4 th line , with a limited time on the PP and an average 12-13 minutes of ice per game , Latendresse is having 11 goals . It's only 5 less than your Ryder , who is on the first line since game number one , that plays 17-18 minutes per game , and that is always on the PP .

And Ryder is - 21 . I think that you were one of the posters that were always bringing the "scandalous -9 of Ribeiro"last season , no ?

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02-12-2007, 09:31 AM
  #43
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I don't think you really understand.

He's being misused in the sense that he's being told to do things he's not suited for. It has nothing to do with who he's playing with. Did you even read my post?
He isn't being told to do things he's not suited for . You don't understand that it's only in your imagination that he's misused .

He 's playing a team concept system , and it is the same systeme that last season . And it's the same system for all the lines , and it's the same system for most of the teams .

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02-12-2007, 09:37 AM
  #44
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And Ryder is - 21 . I think that you were one of the posters that were always bringing the "scandalous -9 of Ribeiro"last season , no ?
Good one!!!

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02-12-2007, 10:32 AM
  #45
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Latendresse ? it was not in a slump situation that they decided to keep him , and he wasn't on the first lines at the begining of the season . They slowly gave him more ice .

with a lot of time on the 4 th line , with a limited time on the PP and an average 12-13 minutes of ice per game , Latendresse is having 11 goals . It's only 5 less than your Ryder , who is on the first line since game number one , that plays 17-18 minutes per game , and that is always on the PP .

And Ryder is - 21 . I think that you were one of the posters that were always bringing the "scandalous -9 of Ribeiro"last season , no ?
Latendresse is on the team because they want him to learn. They've said that over and over again. He's not in junior because he will develop more in Montreal. He's not here because he's some phenom superstar that the team needs to win.

He also happens to be pretty brutal since the slump started. He's here to learn and still gets his icetime even when he sucks. That's the reason he's here.

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He isn't being told to do things he's not suited for . You don't understand that it's only in your imagination that he's misused .

He 's playing a team concept system , and it is the same systeme that last season . And it's the same system for all the lines , and it's the same system for most of the teams .
Jeez, it's like you understand but you're pretending not to. Or maybe you understand but you just don't realize it yet.


Last edited by Darz: 02-12-2007 at 02:36 PM. Reason: removed da crap
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02-12-2007, 10:47 AM
  #46
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I would try Ryder with Radek Bonk, he's good at finding open guys and at controlling the puck in the offensive zone.

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02-12-2007, 11:08 AM
  #47
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You guys know what's the main problem of Ryder. He's really one dimensional. When he gets in the offensive zone, 9 on 10 he goes directly to the board instead of going to the goal and he always take a bad shot instead of passing.

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02-12-2007, 11:13 AM
  #48
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My two cents

Great goal scorers find their spots on the ice. Great goal scores make their linemates seem like they are better playmakers than they really are. Micheal Ryder in my opinion does not deserve merit in that group.

Imo, Ryder is trying to do too much with the puck this year (for the most part). He can be somewhat successful when doing that, but only when he picks his spots. For the most part if Ryder has the puck on his stick in the offensive zone, he shouldn't be thinking of anything but putting it on net. Also when he doesn't have the puck in the offensize zone he should be looking for the soft spots to open up, and he should fill that spot quickly. This is one thing I think if Ryder could improve on, he could go from a 25 goal scorer to a 40 goal scorer.

To back up my point, look at Ryders shot per game stats from last year to this year.

05-06......81 games.....243 shots......averaging 3 shots per game.
06-07......57 games.....145 shots......averaging 2.54 shots per game.

Another thing to consider when looking at the stats is, although Ryder's ice time per game is almost the same as last year, his time killing penalties has increased from 8:42 for all of last year to over 47 minutes this year. Also Ryder's PP time per game has dropped from 4:30 per game last year to 3:45 per game this year.

I think these stats prove the theory that the habs coaching staff is trying to round out Ryder's game more, but I wonder if Ryder's new overall game mentality has hurt his progression as a goal scorer. I wonder if it wouldn't be a better idea to have Ryder work more on his goal scoring and less on the rest of the game, considering the fact that this team has alot of good two way forwards, but real lacks snipers.

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02-12-2007, 11:24 AM
  #49
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The only reason Ryder always ends up carrying the puck in the zone is because instead of making a standard breakout and passing the puck to Koivu who is curling out of the Habs zone, he buries his head and tumbles into the offensive zone at 2km/h all the while Koivu is skating at half speed so as to not go offside. Then when Ryder goes over the blueline he tries a *****ing toe-drag (in slow motion) against an NHL defenseman (it's not Junior ffs) and gets owned every time.

And you're all talking about how he doesn't get in front, he has blown AT LEAST 20 point blank opportunities in front of the net (most of these were before the team slump) which particularly angered me because Koivu and Higgins were doing all the work and then when they finally got the puck to the "sniper", Stonehands himself would ***** it all up.

Ryder sucks, send him packing.

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02-12-2007, 02:15 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Latendresse is on the team because they want him to learn. They've said that over and over again. He's not in junior because he will develop more in Montreal. He's not here because he's some phenom superstar that the team needs to win.

He also happens to be pretty brutal since the slump started. He's here to learn and still gets his icetime even when he sucks. That's the reason he's here.
i never pretend he wasn't here to learn , Waffledave . I said that the management didn't take that decision when the team was in a slump . And i said that because you said that you think that they asked Ryder to play the way he 's playing , BECAUSE THEY WANT HIM TO LEARN or to add other parts in his game .

Latendresse has 4 points for the last 10 games and is -1
Ryder has 5 points for the last 10 games and is -9
Koivu has 3 points and is -7
Kovalev has 5 points and is +1

Considering that all the team is in a slump , i don't see why you are saying that Latendresse is sucking . He hits , he goes in front of the net , he plays a more safe defensive game .

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