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Malik returns to lineup, and we win two straight

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02-12-2007, 11:34 AM
  #1
dave4
 
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Malik returns to lineup, and we win two straight

This is like Ripley's.

Is it Malik? He returns and we play two complete games. You can say it's Avery, but this is the kind of thing that has happened before.

I'm telling you some GM is going to look at this guy and think he's the key to their Cup run, and overpay for him.

The time to move him is now.

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02-12-2007, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
This is like Ripley's.

Is it Malik? He returns and we play two complete games. You can say it's Avery, but this is the kind of thing that has happened before.

I'm telling you some GM is going to look at this guy and think he's the key to their Cup run, and overpay for him.

The time to move him is now.
Watching some of your teammates get shipped out of town, or see new faces come in, has to weigh on the minds of some players. Sometimes the best motivator is fear... in this case, of being dealt elsewhere, perhaps to a team in a worse playoff scenario than the Rangers.

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02-12-2007, 11:37 AM
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Malik actually had a very strong game in DC I thought. Made some really nifty passes coming out of the zone.

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02-12-2007, 11:42 AM
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I didn't think...

Malik was strong at all against Tampa and that was one of the better games we've seen all season long. He had nothing to do with any of the goals, despite being on the ice, and I do recall some quality shots against whlie he was on the ice. I thought his partner did a good job that night. Malik was good against Wash, I agree with that.

Maybe the team has more confidence with him out there - I can't explain why this team came out playing with passion in a Friday night home game against a team its fighting for a playoff spot late in the season, whlie fighting others for a playoff spot and time running out, after a few weeks of bad play and after losing to the same team a little while back where they gave up a lead on the road.

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02-12-2007, 11:45 AM
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abev
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The Rangers are 3-8 without Malik in the lineup this season.

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02-12-2007, 11:58 AM
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Larry Melnyk
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Yeah, Malik looks like utter crap at times, but the fact that the Rangers win when he plays and that they do really well when he is on the ice can not be overlooked....In my eyes he also does some good small things and Ward has looked even worse...But the nwe get back into the whole Malik arguement again...Siffice to say, I still think we need another D-man

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02-12-2007, 12:02 PM
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It's the flipside of the Patrick Ewing syndrome. The Rangers are so afraid of when Malik does play that they work extra hard to counteract his play.

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02-12-2007, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Yeah, Malik looks like utter crap at times, but the fact that the Rangers win when he plays and that they do really well when he is on the ice can not be overlooked....In my eyes he also does some good small things and Ward has looked even worse...But the nwe get back into the whole Malik arguement again...Siffice to say, I still think we need another D-man
In all fairness to Ward, hes been banged up. He has the flu again and some think his foot is shot, but you dont hear anything really from the team or from him about it. The guy just keeps playing.

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02-12-2007, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Yeah, Malik looks like utter crap at times, but the fact that the Rangers win when he plays and that they do really well when he is on the ice can not be overlooked....In my eyes he also does some good small things and Ward has looked even worse...But the nwe get back into the whole Malik arguement again...Siffice to say, I still think we need another D-man
Agreed on all points except about ward. I think ward has definately been better than malik and you have to take into account the fact that he's been playing in pain a lot of the time.

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02-12-2007, 12:20 PM
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I doubt we move Malik at all.

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02-12-2007, 12:54 PM
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Larry Melnyk
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My bad guys, Did not know Ward was banged up until after I posted..If he's playing with a bruised or broken foot, that would explain why he has looked so slow..But also say alot about his heart..

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02-12-2007, 01:18 PM
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Malik's +/- doesnt lie

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02-12-2007, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by KingHenrik35 View Post
Malik's +/- doesnt lie
When we were losing there was an entire thread of people who thought the +/- was a lie. And if we start losing again (with Malik being a + in the losses of course), we'll start saying it again.

I didn't think he contributed much over the weekend...he took another lazy hooking penalty against the Lightning when he stopped skating, and he had a few turnovers in his zone.

But while +/- numbers can distort, wins and losses don't, because that's the reason they play. I just can't explain why we couldn't play well with Malik out of the lineup.

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02-12-2007, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingHenrik35 View Post
Malik's +/- doesnt lie


I've said it before. The reason Malik's +/- is so high is that he's so godawful that each of the other four skaters on the ice feel that they need to overcompensate, and thus we finally see some Rangers giving it their all

Yep, that solves the mystery of the Marek Malik +/-. Now, to work on what's gotten into Hossa...

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02-12-2007, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Ansky1213 View Post


I've said it before. The reason Malik's +/- is so high is that he's so godawful that each of the other four skaters on the ice feel that they need to overcompensate, and thus we finally see some Rangers giving it their all

Yep, that solves the mystery of the Marek Malik +/-. Now, to work on what's gotten into Hossa...
I have to disagree,respectfully ofcourse. His numbers are the way they are because when he makes a bad play and see's the other team comming down the ice, he skates like the wind to get off the ice to allow Shanny to get on and get the minus

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02-12-2007, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Malik was strong at all against Tampa and that was one of the better games we've seen all season long. He had nothing to do with any of the goals, despite being on the ice, and I do recall some quality shots against whlie he was on the ice. I thought his partner did a good job that night. Malik was good against Wash, I agree with that.

Maybe the team has more confidence with him out there - I can't explain why this team came out playing with passion in a Friday night home game against a team its fighting for a playoff spot late in the season, whlie fighting others for a playoff spot and time running out, after a few weeks of bad play and after losing to the same team a little while back where they gave up a lead on the road.
I watched Malik closely against TB and I thought he played a near flawless game. Nothing fancy, just solid outlet passes, one after another. He is our best first pass defenseman. That may be an indictment of the rest of the them but does not alter the fact that he is dependable for that. He gets an amazingly bum rap in this forum and at the Garden.

The Rangers consistently play better with him than without him. His plus/minus is not a mirage or an aberration. One can argue how much of a positive he is but it's an indication that he is certainly not hurting his team.

Again, not saying he is in any way special and if someone wants to give us better value, fine.

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02-12-2007, 02:07 PM
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I know, like 100% sure of, that one reason for all these Malik debates is that many NYR fans, with all due respect, are more critical on defenders then they are on goalies and forwards.

A defender who makes a few misstakes is per automatic a very bad defender. While a forward can make a ton of misstakes, and still be decent/not a problem/ect.

Look at any GDT, a forward who completly blows a 2 on 1 might get 2-3 replys, a D who under pressure makes a bad pass will always get 25 replys atleast, and thoose replys aren't nice.

Even Lidström makes misstakes, probably atleast 40 in a season. All D's makes misstakes.

Thats how it is, many times a misstake by a forward costs atleast as much as a D, by they seldom are held accountable. D's on the other hand, are in a position were its hard to not make misstakes, but fans always hold them accountable here.

I am defenitly not a fan of Malik, but I do think he does a few things well, especially the chemistry he shows with Roszival, Jagr, Straka and Co. Malik does that better then Tyutin does for example. Marek holds on to the puck when its time to that, moves the puck fast when its time to do that ect. Malik also contributes some defensivly with his size alone, something he never gets any credit for. He takes up allot of ice. He is also pretty good at getting the puck out fast, he is agile for a man his size, compare him with Hatcher for example... Without the puck he is seldom out of position. He makes allot of misstakes, and he will get beat wide unless he gets the proper backup. I would defeintly like to see him replaced by Marc Staal ASAP.

But, its a joke to think that Thomas Pöck or Ivan Baranka can step in with the top unit and be better then Malik. I have to say that I got pretty pissed when people celebrated when Malik went down. He works hard within his limits for this team, and is the best player for the role he plays in the organization. I think its bad style to boo him. He can't be compared to a Bruce Driver or even Tom Poti, thoose guys atleast had it in them to be better then they were. Malik works hard and gives it all within his limits. If anyone should have been booed this season it should have been Adam Hall.

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02-12-2007, 02:40 PM
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For me, chosen...

the one thing Malik in the lineup does is to allow other defensemen to play their correct respective roles. Ward isn't on a top line (and playing out of position). Tyutin isn't paired with Rachunek, and there aren't two rookies getting odd amounts of ice time on the third pair. The pairings just seem to make more sense with Malik in the lineup. If you switched Tyutin and Malik, for instance, I don't think you'd see a difference, except Tyutin may accumulate more of those pluses from being out there with Jagr. I do think a lot is coincidence, but there are too many coincidences to really explain. We watched Pock actually do a decent job with Rozsival. He moved the puck well. He brought up the puck. He shot. Nothing. Not one point and the team struggled. Again, it could be confidence out there, or maybe Jagr just plays better with certain people - like Randy Johnson not being caught by Posada for many games.

Much like the forwards...Betts on a fourth line makes a heck of a lot of sense. Cullen on a third line makes a heck of a lot of sense. You now have four lines that make sense and help the flow.

Malik often does have that nice first pass out, but I thought there were a fair amount of times where he struggled controlling the puck in his own end and was beaten to the puck a few times. I'm not complaining about that because it was to be expected, but thought it actually happened.

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02-12-2007, 02:44 PM
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ola...

I think it's more along the lines that many would've liked to see the defensemen on this team more active and aggressive in their own zone, and Malik is one of those guys who has looked indifferent at times. With the Rangers last season, a defenseman's job was a bit easier than on many teams. You had Jagr out there 22 minutes per night, dominating, and not givin up too many chances. You had Lundqvist standing on his head, being asked to make too many quality saves. There seemed to be a lot of help from the forwards too. This season there has been more criticism because Jagr hasn't been dominating and Lundqvist hasn't stood on his head enough and we see the result.

Often times we saw too many odd man situations, too many passes up the middle, the inability to get through the neutral zone, and losing too many one-on-one battles. That's where the criticisms lie. We've all criticized Lundqvist for being ordinary too often, and the forwards for not helping out enough, so nobody's gone untouched.

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02-12-2007, 02:50 PM
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just a coincidence.. I remember when Immonen and Kasper were put into the lineup.. we won a few games then went into a losing streak (can't recall the wins and losses tho)

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02-12-2007, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I watched Malik closely against TB and I thought he played a near flawless game. Nothing fancy, just solid outlet passes, one after another. He is our best first pass defenseman. That may be an indictment of the rest of the them but does not alter the fact that he is dependable for that. He gets an amazingly bum rap in this forum and at the Garden.

The Rangers consistently play better with him than without him. His plus/minus is not a mirage or an aberration. One can argue how much of a positive he is but it's an indication that he is certainly not hurting his team.

Again, not saying he is in any way special and if someone wants to give us better value, fine.
Wow, the Malik lovefest is on! The team plays two good games, and Malik and dependable are used in the same sentence for the first time all season! He played a near flawless game! (I guess the lazy hooking penalty was what made it 'near' flawless.

His plus/minus is not a mirage or an aberration! Wow. I forget chosen, were you in the other thread defending Malik when everyone was all over him a couple of weeks ago, when we were losing?

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02-12-2007, 03:16 PM
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Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
Wow, the Malik lovefest is on! The team plays two good games, and Malik and dependable are used in the same sentence for the first time all season! He played a near flawless game! (I guess the lazy hooking penalty was what made it 'near' flawless.

His plus/minus is not a mirage or an aberration! Wow. I forget chosen, were you in the other thread defending Malik when everyone was all over him a couple of weeks ago, when we were losing?
I don't know about chosen, but I was....And he subsequently had a few horrible games..but, like he did agaisnt the Caps and the Bolts for the most part, when he keeps it simple and safe, he does alot of little things well that helps the team and the players on the ice with him---both borne out by the stats...LIke most of the other D, his problem is consistnecy and when he's bad, he's real bad..

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02-12-2007, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
Wow, the Malik lovefest is on! The team plays two good games, and Malik and dependable are used in the same sentence for the first time all season! He played a near flawless game! (I guess the lazy hooking penalty was what made it 'near' flawless.

His plus/minus is not a mirage or an aberration! Wow. I forget chosen, were you in the other thread defending Malik when everyone was all over him a couple of weeks ago, when we were losing?
Yes, I was. Someone has to get it right the first time.

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02-12-2007, 03:38 PM
  #24
Ola
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I think it's more along the lines that many would've liked to see the defensemen on this team more active and aggressive in their own zone, and Malik is one of those guys who has looked indifferent at times. With the Rangers last season, a defenseman's job was a bit easier than on many teams. You had Jagr out there 22 minutes per night, dominating, and not givin up too many chances. You had Lundqvist standing on his head, being asked to make too many quality saves. There seemed to be a lot of help from the forwards too. This season there has been more criticism because Jagr hasn't been dominating and Lundqvist hasn't stood on his head enough and we see the result.

Often times we saw too many odd man situations, too many passes up the middle, the inability to get through the neutral zone, and losing too many one-on-one battles. That's where the criticisms lie. We've all criticized Lundqvist for being ordinary too often, and the forwards for not helping out enough, so nobody's gone untouched.
For me Marek Malik is Steve Rucchin, at D. Or even a bit better then him. Therefor I don't really get why people hate Malik so much. Strats threads to celebraty when he is injured ect.

I mean we all wanted our forwards to be tougher last season, but nobody booed Steve Rucchin. You know what I mean?

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02-12-2007, 03:51 PM
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Yes, I was. Someone has to get it right the first time.
Well after I asked that question I remembered with a few clicks I could actually go back and read that thread myself!

It's true you weren't piling on like a lot of us were, but you weren't praising him either. You were lukewarm about him, something like 'I don't think he's great or even very good...I think he's okay."

The thing is his +/- is more than okay, but what +/- doesn't take into account is how many times you put your team shorthanded, and with Malik it's often, and it's never an act of aggression, an elbowing or a charging penalty. It's usually a lazy hooking (Friday night in his near flawless Tampa game) or holding penalty.

I think my main point for the thread is that with Malik's numbers and size maybe Sather can get someone to overpay for him, before his numbers catch up to his play. Personally I'd rather have Tyutin or Ward on the ice, and Rozsival too. At least Rozsival provides a little offense on occasion, although an offensive defenseman he's not.

Malik's value may never be as high as it is right now, and there have to be a lot of teams looking for big defensemen. It's time to trade him.

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