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Why is Graves' slash on Lemieux in 92 defended so much?

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Old
02-23-2014, 08:07 AM
  #76
JerseyRangers
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Mario did not start whining. Existed for many years before that. Espo immediately pops to mind.
True except that no one other than Maryo went to the Board of Governors in the summer and called out the NHL for being a "garage league." Maryo always had the arrogant attitude that if he didn't get things his way he'd take his ball and go home. Do a little research - you will find most players will state he was one of the worst whiners to ever play the game.

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02-23-2014, 08:09 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Every superstar in hockey and basketball gets preferential treatment. Fact of life. Wrong, but fact.
Really - tell that to Cam Neely or Ray Bourque. Funny Maryo had the gall to complain about Graves after what Ulfie had done to Neely in the playoffs the year before. Imagine if Maryo had been hit like that by Beukeboom. The Rangers would still be giving up draft picks to the Penguins to pay for that hit.

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02-23-2014, 08:29 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Really - tell that to Cam Neely or Ray Bourque. Funny Maryo had the gall to complain about Graves after what Ulfie had done to Neely in the playoffs the year before. Imagine if Maryo had been hit like that by Beukeboom. The Rangers would still be giving up draft picks to the Penguins to pay for that hit.
Bourque and Neely were great players. Neely was definitely not a superstar. Bourque is close.

Did Gretzky get preferential treatment? if you touched him and he fell, it was a penalty.

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02-23-2014, 08:42 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Bourque and Neely were great players. Neely was definitely not a superstar. Bourque is close.

Did Gretzky get preferential treatment? if you touched him and he fell, it was a penalty.

You must have a very strict definition of superstar. Bourque is arguably the second best defensemen in the history of the game and Cam Neely was 2nd All-NHL in three of four seaons before the hit and is a Hall of Famer.

The problem is that both Bourque and Neely were extremely physical and durable players whose games were drivien by hitting and being involved in every play.

Neely and Bourque didnt require preferential treatment, nor did they ever receive it or ask for it.

Lemieux was a wimp. He was a diver, a cherry picker and avoided contact as much as he could. Gretzky the same. Craig Janney was Boston's version of Mario.

Neely and Bourque were the epitome of tough. You would have to saw their legs off to get them to go down and stay down the way Mario used to.

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Old
02-23-2014, 09:40 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Bourque and Neely were great players. Neely was definitely not a superstar. Bourque is close.

Did Gretzky get preferential treatment? if you touched him and he fell, it was a penalty.
Really Chosen??? Bourque is regarded as one of the greatest players to ever play the game. Certainly one of the top 10 d-men of all time.
Neely was on his way to establishing himself as an elite forward before his career got ruined by Ulfie. If they weren't regarded as superstars at that time who was?
Doesn't fit your argument so you will diminsh these players? Nice try.

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02-23-2014, 09:49 AM
  #81
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Bourque not quite a superstar? Is that what I just read?

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02-23-2014, 10:04 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
I remember hearing that Lemieux took all the padding out of his gloves for greater flexibility. Well--whatever. Mario was always a dick IMO. That chop by Graves was pretty nasty but it wasn't anything unusual to see practically every game in those days. Really--you had Samuelsson and Kasparaitis running around with their knee to knee hits and those were cool. Scott Stevens handing out head shots left and right--concussions galore and no problem and this is what they decided to highlight because Lemieux and Gretzky were the two guys they marketed the game around. Messier was another one. Some players are immune because of their star status. Malkin slew foots and makes dangerous plays all the time. No suspensions. Messier put a lot of people in the hospital--no suspensions for him either.

Lemieux hypocritically complaining about dirty play and employing Matt Cooke and Brooks Orpik and the unsuspendable Malkin. There you go. It's like Bobbly Clarke--one of the dirtiest players of all time talking about cleaning up the game.
I was told directly by Graves and other players (Domi & Richter, IIRC) in the days following their elimination that this was the case. They felt that it was BS.

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02-23-2014, 10:05 AM
  #83
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Bourque not quite a superstar? Is that what I just read?
Yep that's what Chosen would have you believe. Look I love Leetch as much as the next Rangers fan however, I would have loved to have Bourque and gladly would have traded Leetch at any point of his career for Raymond Bourque. During the 80's and 90's Bourque was the best defensmen in the NHL.

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02-23-2014, 10:06 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Yep that's what Chosen would have you believe. Look I love Leetch as much as the next Rangers fan however, I would have loved to have Bourque and gladly would have traded Leetch at any point of his career for Raymond Bourque. During the 80's and 90's Bourque was the best defensmen in the NHL.
And one of the top 5, if not top 3 of all-time.

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02-23-2014, 11:42 AM
  #85
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A lot of people were happy to see Bourque finally win a Cup just because he was such a class act. The best d-man went from Orr to Potvin to Bourque. Guys like Park, Coffey and Leetch were all a half rung below. IMO Karlsson may be the best today but he's more in the second groupings category---not in the first.

I really don't get this Mario was a superstar so it's okay that there's another set of standards for him. He was always an ******* as far as I'm concerned even off the ice. I really don't have this problem with Crosby by the way. I don't like him but he's not nearly the whiner that Lemieux was and he also plays a tougher game.

Back to Mario's taking the padding out of his gloves--what's it there for?--PROTECTION of your hands and wrists. Any idiot could figure that out. Take it out--live with the ****ing consequences. Don't ***** if you get hurt.

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02-23-2014, 02:21 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
What Graves did in 1992 is no different than what Hunter and Antoski tried to do with Messier in 1994 and what Podein and Klatt tried to do to Leetch in 1997.

You target the stars. Anyone who remembers the 1992 Pens series will recall that Neilson tried to goon it up and it backfired big time -- Francis goal or no Francis goal.
No offense, but you are absolutely out of your mind. When did Adam Graves EVER try to goon it up? When was he EVER a dirty player?

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02-23-2014, 02:24 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Bourque and Neely were great players. Neely was definitely not a superstar. Bourque is close.
Oh, wow. Simply WOW. Bourque not a superstar? WOW
Quote:
Did Gretzky get preferential treatment? if you touched him and he fell, it was a penalty.
Gretzky never complained. He was also well protected by McSorly & Semenko.

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Old
02-24-2014, 12:57 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Oh, wow. Simply WOW. Bourque not a superstar? WOW

Gretzky never complained. He was also well protected by McSorly & Semenko.
Gretzky also had the anticipation to avoid checks, and was very slippery. You rarely saw Gretzky get leveled mostly glancing checks.

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Old
02-24-2014, 01:06 AM
  #89
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Guys...it's Mario*

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Old
02-24-2014, 06:40 AM
  #90
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Guys...it's Mario*
should be:

****************
*****MARIO*****
****************

Ray Bourque maybe you could give him one star

Bourque*

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Old
02-24-2014, 07:04 AM
  #91
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Because **** Mario.

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Old
02-24-2014, 08:21 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Captain Monglobster View Post
Gretzky also had the anticipation to avoid checks, and was very slippery. You rarely saw Gretzky get leveled mostly glancing checks.
Also agreed. TGO was NOT a complainer.

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Old
02-24-2014, 08:24 PM
  #93
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Used to watch and tape all the games back then and make highlight tapes of the tough play. This slash was such a common play for then that his suspension was laughable. If Mario didnt flop to the ice, it isnt even a penalty.

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02-25-2014, 05:55 PM
  #94
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Graves demands jeter type respect due to his character, therefore Mario must have deserved it.

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Old
02-25-2014, 11:03 PM
  #95
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Graves was not the Saint of Broadway in 1992--he was known as a chippy player who wasn't afraid to drop the gloves. He had just begun to find his scoring touch.

In any case, he's never been my favorite player (and I would have preferred they not retire his number), but my view of the play is the same now as when I saw it live--anyone else, and it's at most a 2 minute penalty.

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