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Malik returns to lineup, and we win two straight

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Old
02-12-2007, 05:04 PM
  #26
FLYLine24
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
For me Marek Malik is Steve Rucchin, at D. Or even a bit better then him. Therefor I don't really get why people hate Malik so much. Strats threads to celebraty when he is injured ect.

I mean we all wanted our forwards to be tougher last season, but nobody booed Steve Rucchin. You know what I mean?
Steve Rucchin didn't make bonehead plays 3 times a night either. And Steve Rucchin gave 100%, unlike Malik who slows down so he doesn't have to get hit when he gets to the puck first.

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02-12-2007, 06:44 PM
  #27
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Nobody can figure out the Malik thing it seems, but does it really matter anymore? The bottom line is that good things happen when he's on the ice and with the team... They win games when he dresses and obviously, his whole career good things have happened when he's on the ice.

Does it really matter how he does it? Even if it is pure luck, it is still good for the Rangers.

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02-12-2007, 06:48 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by FLYLine88 View Post
Steve Rucchin didn't make bonehead plays 3 times a night either. And Steve Rucchin gave 100%, unlike Malik who slows down so he doesn't have to get hit when he gets to the puck first.
But did he block shots? Its not hard to find faults when it comes to Rucchin. Bonehead plays, I don't know, are they boneheaded or can't he just play better? I mean if Rucchin fails to pass the puck like playmaking center nobody calls him a bonehead, if Malik makes a bad pass, he is a bonehead? There were allot of goals last season that we didn't score since Rucchin didn't pass the puck great. There are allot of goals we have let in this season since Malik haven't passed the puck well. One is accepted like nothing, the other get hanged out like one of the worst players in the league. I call that double standards...

Malik is defenitly performing as good as Steve Rucchin did for us.

But, many fans here are really critical when it comes to the D's on this team, and reasonable when it comes to the forwards. Look at the players booed at the MSG the last decade, all D's. While everyone from Zedno Ciger, Val Kamensky to Kevin Stevens got free passes.

With a cap and 30 teams in the league these days we better start accepting mediocre players, thats all I am saying.

Also, I wouldn't care at all what people think about Malik, if him getting booed wouldn't hurt the team. We are 11-12 at home and 16-12 on the road... There is only one other team in this league that are that much better on the road and thats Toronto. The rest 28 teams got a advantage playing at home, we don't.

Anyway, I just don't think Maliks play in anyway warrants him getting booed.


Last edited by Ola: 02-12-2007 at 07:00 PM.
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02-12-2007, 07:29 PM
  #29
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Coincidence

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02-12-2007, 07:53 PM
  #30
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Maliks problem is that even when he plays good, it seems like he shows no effort, emotion, or passion. He's a + even when he's a -

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02-12-2007, 07:57 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
But did he block shots? Its not hard to find faults when it comes to Rucchin. Bonehead plays, I don't know, are they boneheaded or can't he just play better? I mean if Rucchin fails to pass the puck like playmaking center nobody calls him a bonehead, if Malik makes a bad pass, he is a bonehead? There were allot of goals last season that we didn't score since Rucchin didn't pass the puck great. There are allot of goals we have let in this season since Malik haven't passed the puck well. One is accepted like nothing, the other get hanged out like one of the worst players in the league. I call that double standards...
If Rucchin makes a bad pass, the other team gains possession. If Malik makes a bad pass the other team gets a shot off with our forwards out of the zone and the other defenseman skating the other way. This leads to a quality shot/goal/penalty against. That isn't to say that Rucchin's play doesn't lead to the same outcomes, but it is less likely in his case. For that very reason, Malik's job is to make smarter and safer decisions than a forward. He fails in that capacity. He gives away quality chances on a consistent basis.

Rucchin's job wasn't to score (for the most part), it was to play a smart two way game... he did that. Malik's job is to prevent goals and get the puck out of the zone safely, he doesn't do that.

For what it's worth, the team had a great game against NJ with Malik out of the lineup.

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02-12-2007, 08:19 PM
  #32
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I've been saying it for a while, Malik gets unfairly crapped on by MSG fans.

His contract, lack of physical play for a man his size, and the MSG fans' necessity/desire for a whipping boy have led him to become the prime target of fan ire.

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02-12-2007, 08:45 PM
  #33
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There have been....

enough candidates for whipping boy that I think many Rangers fans think it's a lot more than that. If you go back to many GDTs, so many talk about how bad Malik was, how he was the worst guy on the ice, but ends up +2. He played horrible in October especially, and still ended up a +4 for the month. Not sure anybody thought he played well then.

I think people see him get beat a lot, see him play indifferent hockey, and take more than his fair share of unnecessary, lazy penalties and just don't like it.

And back to the last couple games...it helped that the Rangers found an ability to score some goals, something that's been missing for some time.

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02-12-2007, 09:24 PM
  #34
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The thing with Malik is, he brings out the best is Rozie. When he is in the lineup, we have better balance on the defensive pairings and Renney has more options. The guy is solid, doesn't get running around too much, stays in position and has better than average patience with the puck, which complements the first line's Euro flow thing.

It's just that, even though his plus-minus doesn't bear it out, he is not nearly the player he was last year for us, and went through a brutal stretch with horrible giveaways, lazy penalties, etc.

True that his trade value may never be higher, but like him or loathe him, he makes sense for this team as currently constituted. (And that circus shootout goal will live forever!)

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02-12-2007, 10:12 PM
  #35
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That is an awful lot now to just chalk up the team's success with Malik as a complete coincidence.

He drives me nuts at times and i think the fact that the team's overall play with him, as well as the team's success with him on the ice is reason enough to keep him out there.

And truly i think where he helps the team is in lesser areas such as the first pass out of the zone... When they gain possession in their own zone, he very often makes that very good first pass out of there that seems to help everything. Nearly every other defenseman just tosses it up the boards and things can work out, but Malik will sit in there and get it through.

Fans just see a big guy who doesnt show a lot of emotion or take the body so he's the whipping boy.

THe booing isnt good though. Coaches in other sports have pointed out that it does nothing but give the opposing teams confidence. From that point, no prob booing anyone when the team cant come back, but early in the game it is bad.

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02-13-2007, 09:27 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
That is an awful lot now to just chalk up the team's success with Malik as a complete coincidence.

He drives me nuts at times and i think the fact that the team's overall play with him, as well as the team's success with him on the ice is reason enough to keep him out there.

And truly i think where he helps the team is in lesser areas such as the first pass out of the zone... When they gain possession in their own zone, he very often makes that very good first pass out of there that seems to help everything. Nearly every other defenseman just tosses it up the boards and things can work out, but Malik will sit in there and get it through.

Fans just see a big guy who doesnt show a lot of emotion or take the body so he's the whipping boy.

THe booing isnt good though. Coaches in other sports have pointed out that it does nothing but give the opposing teams confidence. From that point, no prob booing anyone when the team cant come back, but early in the game it is bad.
Totally agree that booing for the sake of booing, like at the start of a game, is bad. But when Malik makes stupid passes, takes lazy penalties and doesn't hustle, the booing is totally warranted.

And speaking of passes, at least the d-men who get it out along the boards get it out. The risk/reward ratio for Malik's cross ice passes in his own zone is not good. He's given up way too many odd-man scoring rushes for the other team. If he were able to complete that pass most of the time it would be a good pass. Too many players read that pass and they're off to the races. And it's not like Malik's passes in his own zone are springing our players in for a breakaway. The best-case scenarios with the passes in his own zone are still that we just get it out of the zone.

Obviously how well they played in the last two games has much more to do with the spark Avery brought them, the new line combos because of Avery, THE STEADY PLAY OF GIRARDI WHO ENTERED THE LINEUP WHEN MALIK WENT DOWN, consistent goaltending by Lundqvist, some scoring from unexpected sources, etc.

I personally think it's a coincidence, but there have been a lot of coincidences with Malik this season. And this thread is more about wanting to trade Malik than to criticize his play. This guy is like a stock that has had an unexpected run-up, and you know won't be able to hold it's value.

The bottom line is we may be able to get something really good for Malik right now. The stars are all aligned like they may never be again. His +/- on a mediocre team makes him seem like one of the best d-men in the league. He's big, and there's always a coach who thinks HE'S the one who can light a spark in a big guy...you can't teach a guy to be big. Teams will be looking for a big d-man starting like RIGHT NOW, with the trade deadline less than two weeks away.

I'm telling you, we'll never be able to get as much for Malik as we will right now.

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02-13-2007, 10:31 AM
  #37
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When Malik doesn't play it makes Jagr & Co. sad and so they don't play as well.

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02-13-2007, 10:42 AM
  #38
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Malik gets booed because he turns the puck over constantly. He tries to force the play up the middle and can't recover when the opponent intercepts his pass. It usually leads to an odd man rush and a great save by Lundqvist, maybe Lundy is the reason Malik isn't a minus player. Nobody wants to boo him but sometimes his decision making warrants a little criticism.

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02-13-2007, 10:47 AM
  #39
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Totally agree that booing for the sake of booing, like at the start of a game, is bad. But when Malik makes stupid passes, takes lazy penalties and doesn't hustle, the booing is totally warranted.

And speaking of passes, at least the d-men who get it out along the boards get it out. The risk/reward ratio for Malik's cross ice passes in his own zone is not good. He's given up way too many odd-man scoring rushes for the other team. If he were able to complete that pass most of the time it would be a good pass. Too many players read that pass and they're off to the races. And it's not like Malik's passes in his own zone are springing our players in for a breakaway. The best-case scenarios with the passes in his own zone are still that we just get it out of the zone.
This is a understandable misstake that many fans make.

But to ask Malik to play simple, boards out passes, with Jagr and Co just because he makes a few misstakes trying to play constructive, is exactly like asking Nylander not to play defense because he aren't good at it. Playing with Jagr its just not on the map.

But its understandable that people thinks otherwise, since guys like Jagr are pretty special and the conditions have changed dramatically in this aspect with the new rules. Before it were practiacally impossivle to be constructive through the neutral zone. And if you lifted the puck out, it were really easy to stop stand up on your own blueline since you could slash and hook all you wanted. Now its the other way around. Getting through the neutral zone is pretty easy. Getting a puck back that you have lifted out of your own end is really hard. Though study these aspects and you will see just how much better it is to play constructive out of your own end compared to lifting the puck out.

Malik connects with a huge majority of his passes, of the around 30 passes very few acutally results in scoring chances against. He plays constructive 90% of the time, and makes the right decisions, showing of really good timming and hockey sense. Dooing that 90% of the time aren't great or even good, but its better then Pck who probably lands at 25-30%, or Tyutin at 50%. Thoose guys plays it simple far to often, and Jagr and Co aren't about to win many battles in the attacking zone, so thoose simple passes more often then not will results in scoring chances and penaltys against. Its simple math.

Its have been so obvious though the past 1.5 seasons that Roszival and Malik contributes allot to the 1st line, whenever Jagr is out there with other D's, like Tyutin-Ward/Kaspar or Poti/Struds, there is a significant negative affect.

Looking at the +/- the risk reward ratio for Maliks contructive game is defenitly positive.

He could do it allot better, no doubt about it. First of all, he could make less misstakes, kind of explains itself. But if he were faster gooing backwards the need for having Straka with Jagr wouldn't have been nearly as strong, and Prucha could be played there with much more success for example.

Honestly his big misstakes don't concern me that much. They seldom results in great scoring chances the other way, more often then not Maliks just screws up a transition play, which a easy pass results in 99% of the time anyway.

Whats concerns me the most is his speed and agility on defense. Straka's work covering up for him can't be overvalued... Playing with Nylander and Jagr ought to be a perfect spot for a young kid to establish himself. I want to see Staal in Maliks position next season without a doubt.

There is defenitly a really strong, and unfound, desire at MSG to find a whipping boy on this team (Just see Kevin Weekes were booed before he even had played a single game for this team...). To say that Steve Rucchin in someway performed better then Malik are here right now just don't add up. Everyone got there own preference, and its a free world, but I don't like the booing of Malik. And I defenitly think it is hurting the team allot. Just look at the home/away record for this team. A little support on home ice instead wouldn't hurt at this point.

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02-13-2007, 10:55 AM
  #40
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Malik gets booed because he turns the puck over constantly. He tries to force the play up the middle and can't recover when the opponent intercepts his pass. It usually leads to an odd man rush and a great save by Lundqvist, maybe Lundy is the reason Malik isn't a minus player. Nobody wants to boo him but sometimes his decision making warrants a little criticism.
Exactly Malik has such a high +/- because he plays on the same line as our top scorers, who also happen to play a puck possession game. Is is any suprise that our entire top line leads the team in +/- ? Malik certainly doesn't contribute to them scoring. His outlet passes usually only have to go to the Rangers blue line, from where Nylander or Straka pick it up and lead the attack. The guy is worse than useless.

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02-13-2007, 11:13 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
The risk/reward ratio for Malik's cross ice passes in his own zone is not good. He's given up way too many odd-man scoring rushes for the other team. If he were able to complete that pass most of the time it would be a good pass. Too many players read that pass and they're off to the races.
Your statement is in direct opposition to the results. If what you wrote was true he would be minus 20.

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02-13-2007, 11:26 AM
  #42
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Exactly Malik has such a high +/- because he plays on the same line as our top scorers, who also happen to play a puck possession game. Is is any suprise that our entire top line leads the team in +/- ? Malik certainly doesn't contribute to them scoring. His outlet passes usually only have to go to the Rangers blue line, from where Nylander or Straka pick it up and lead the attack. The guy is worse than useless.
Then please explain why Malik's +/- is BETTER than all of Jagr's line and far better than Rosie's.

Outlet passes are only supposed to go a short distance out of the zone to a forward. They are solely to eliminate an immediate scoring chance against your team. Would you prefer if he just cleared it like the rest of them?

He plays the style that his forwards play. That is why he works better with them than the other defensemen.

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02-13-2007, 11:39 AM
  #43
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Then please explain why Malik's +/- is BETTER than all of Jagr's line and far better than Rosie's.

Outlet passes are only supposed to go a short distance out of the zone to a forward. They are solely to eliminate an immediate scoring chance against your team. Would you prefer if he just cleared it like the rest of them?

He plays the style that his forwards play. That is why he works better with them than the other defensemen.
Who knows why his +/- is higher than that of his linemates, the difference must be just dumb luck. God know he isn't killing penalty's when he's sitting in the box, for his nightly hooking penalty (how he is still getting called for those EVERY game is beyond me) He certainly isn't skilled. His back passes to nobody are great,as are his soft passes in the defensive zone, and his turnovers at the blueline. He doesn't clear the crease. At the just 6'2'' 225, I wouldn't want him to hurt himself, what with all these Gomez sized fowards crashing the net these days. God forbid he should clear the net.

I can honestly say I can pretty much live with everyone else on D right now, (jury's still out on Rachunek) but Malik has gotta go. He is so obviously the worst Defensman we have, now that Ozo and (it pains me to say) Kaspar have gone. Girardi outclasses him and how many games has he played?

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02-13-2007, 12:28 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
This is a understandable misstake that many fans make.

But to ask Malik to play simple, boards out passes, with Jagr and Co just because he makes a few misstakes trying to play constructive, is exactly like asking Nylander not to play defense because he aren't good at it. Playing with Jagr its just not on the map.

Malik connects with a huge majority of his passes, of the around 30 passes very few acutally results in scoring chances against. He plays constructive 90% of the time, and makes the right decisions, showing of really good timming and hockey sense. Dooing that 90% of the time aren't great or even good, but its better then Pck who probably lands at 25-30%, or Tyutin at 50%. Thoose guys plays it simple far to often, and Jagr and Co aren't about to win many battles in the attacking zone, so thoose simple passes more often then not will results in scoring chances and penaltys against. Its simple math.

.
I didn't say Malik should chip the puck out off the boards, but if he turns the puck over in his own zone so often, maybe chipping the puck out once in a while wouldn't be such a bad idea.

Malik's slow cross ice passes in the neutral zone are too risky. He doesn't complete 90% of his risky passes, not even close, and they too often lead to breakaways or odd-man rushes against. And it's not like Malik's passes are springing people for our own breakaways, most often the BEST thing that happens is we get it out of the zone. And the worst thing that can happen is really bad.

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02-13-2007, 12:31 PM
  #45
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Your statement is in direct opposition to the results. If what you wrote was true he would be minus 20.
Stats only tell you so much. You have to watch the game to understand.

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02-13-2007, 12:37 PM
  #46
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I dislike Malik...

I think he's medicore, but I guess until his stats go the other way, I can't argue much. I can remember so many threads where it was pretty unanimous that Malik was the worst player on the ice, and ended up +2. He was horrible in October and still went +4. I'm done explaining it; there are stats and correlations that tell a different story. I'm not one that believes in luck; I believe you create your luck. I was going to come in here and talk about my random goal (or goals are random) theory, but that could get too long-winded because there are too many coincidences. Perhaps it's that Rozsival plays better with Malik at his side and that's the real difference; not that Malik's a good defenseman, but with the two 1+1=1.75, and not 1.25. I dunno...can't explain...

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02-13-2007, 12:42 PM
  #47
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Then please explain why Malik's +/- is BETTER than all of Jagr's line and far better than Rosie's.

Outlet passes are only supposed to go a short distance out of the zone to a forward. They are solely to eliminate an immediate scoring chance against your team. Would you prefer if he just cleared it like the rest of them?

He plays the style that his forwards play. That is why he works better with them than the other defensemen.
Again, you're relying on a statistic, when so many of us can see with our eyes how bad he's playing.

Let me ask you a question...who is better, Chris Pronger or Marek Malik? Pronger is +23 on a team that is +43 overall. Malik is +21 on a team that is +3 overall. Malik is obviously much better!

So why isn't Brian Burke on the phone RIGHT NOW suggesting a Malik/Pronger swap? If Malik is +21 on a mediocre team like the Rangers, surely he would be much higher than Pronger's measly +23 with a powerful team like the Ducks. Put Malik with Niedermayer instead of Rozsival, and he may set a new +/- record!

Yet Sather's phone continues to not ring. Uh oh, maybe Burke has the Center Ice package and actually watches the games.

And I can make this comment about a LOT of defensemen in the league, that are clearly better than Malik.

Don't get too caught up in statistics dude, especially +/-.

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02-13-2007, 12:55 PM
  #48
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As has been posted many many times, if Malik occasionally threw a hard hit, the perception of him would clearly be much different. His lack of physicality makes him less likeable.

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02-13-2007, 12:59 PM
  #49
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It may be different, but...

kaspar threw the occasional big check and most called for his retirement.

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02-13-2007, 01:05 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
This is a understandable misstake that many fans make.

But to ask Malik to play simple, boards out passes, with Jagr and Co just because he makes a few misstakes trying to play constructive, is exactly like asking Nylander not to play defense because he aren't good at it. Playing with Jagr its just not on the map.
Roszival can do it without the constant turnovers, so I don't see why it is unreasonable to expect Malik to be responsible. If fact, the best case scenerio for that defensive pair is to have one guy who is the puck carrier, the offensive-defenseman while the other guy is the safe, stay at home guy. If Roszival is going to be the puck mover than Malik should just sit back and make the safe pass to the open teammate, let one of the other 4 players use their better offensive skills to move the puck.

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Originally Posted by bleedrngrblue View Post
As has been posted many many times, if Malik occasionally threw a hard hit, the perception of him would clearly be much different. His lack of physicality makes him less likeable.
I disagree, Malik was loved last season despite not being physical. This argument has nothing to do with his lack of physicality and everything to do with poor decisions. If he just played mistake-free and unspectacular hockey (little risk/little reward if you will) the Garden would be happy. We don't expect much from Marek, just to be safe, steady and competent in own end. There aren't many guys on the team being asked for less, he isn't delivering anyway, hence the boos.

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