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Sochi Hockey Thread II (All Olympic Hockey Talk Here)

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Old
02-23-2014, 02:37 PM
  #301
Killer Z
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With all due respect Replacement (and I really do respect and enjoy your posts on this forum), I must disagree with your sentiment. It can be argued that several of these players have not even reached their peak yet. Being a late 20s or early 30s hockey player is not the same as it was 10 years ago. Lots of high level hockey left in these modern day athletes.

Potential returnees in 2018 by position (and their ages):

Forwards:
Carter - 33yrs
Crosby - 30yrs
Benn - 28yrs
Perry - 32yrs
Duchene - 27yrs
Getzlaf - 32yrs
Toews - 30yrs
Tavares - 27yrs
Nash - 33yrs
Bergeron - 32yrs

Defence:
Keith - 34yrs
Weber - 32yrs
Doughty - 28yrs
Pietrangelo - 28yrs
Vlasic - 30yrs
Subban - 28yrs

Goaltender:
Price - 30yrs

Please note this is simply a list of potential returnees who I believe can all contribute at a high level at these ages, but I would firmly believe that several of these players (perhaps 5-7 of them) will be forced out by younger stars in the making ......which is a terrific thing for Team Canada. Please also note that Stamkos (28yrs) will most likely be on the 2018 squad, and at the peak of his career.

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02-23-2014, 02:38 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
This is absolute BS.

7players in the Gold Medal match are low to "mid 20's"
I'm sorry but what on Earth are you on about?

Carey Price - 26

Shea Weber - 28
Drew Doughty - 24
PK Subban - 24
Alex Pietrangelo - 24
Marc-Edouard Vlasic - 26

Patrice Bergeron - 28
Sidney Crosby - 26
Jonathan Toews - 25
John Tavares - 23
Jamie Benn - 24
Corey Perry - 28
Ryan Getzlaf - 28
Matt Duchene - 23
...with Rick Nash and Jeff Carter clocking in at 29.
edit: And Stamkos at 24 + Giroux at 26 for good measure.

Where did you pull the 7 players bit from? Your eternal pessimism is just unbelievable sometimes.

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02-23-2014, 02:44 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killer Z View Post
With all due respect Replacement (and I really do respect and enjoy your posts on this forum), I must disagree with your sentiment. It can be argued that several of these players have not even reached their peak yet. Being a late 20s or early 30s hockey player is not the same as it was 10 years ago. Lots of high level hockey left in these modern day athletes.

Potential returnees in 2018 by position (and their ages):

Forwards:
Carter - 33yrs
Crosby - 30yrs
Benn - 28yrs
Perry - 32yrs
Duchene - 27yrs
Getzlaf - 32yrs
Toews - 30yrs
Tavares - 27yrs
Nash - 33yrs
Bergeron - 32yrs

Defence:
Keith - 34yrs
Weber - 32yrs[
Doughty - 28yrs
Pietrangelo - 28yrs
Vlasic - 30yrs
Subban - 28yrs

Goaltender:
Price - 30yrs

Please note this is simply a list of potential returnees who I believe can all contribute at a high level at these ages, but I would firmly believe that several of these players will be forced out by younger stars in the making ......which is a terrific thing for Team Canada. Please also note that Stamkos (28yrs) will most likely be on the 2018 squad, and at the peak of his career.
Thanks for the reasonable reply. But this doesn't really answer my question about under 24 age players. At some point not having as many greats in that age range is a potential problem. I consider the mid 20's greats to be Crosby, Toews, Doughty, Stamkos, that's our core, pretty good core.

Above I'll hilite some players I'm not too high on that I don't see being big pictures on TC going forward. In some instances just due to age and thinking those players will no longer be at their prime in those ages. tbh Nash looked not very good even in this tournament.

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02-23-2014, 02:47 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Acumen View Post
I'm sorry but what on Earth are you on about?

Carey Price - 26

Shea Weber - 28
Drew Doughty - 24
PK Subban - 24
Alex Pietrangelo - 24
Marc-Edouard Vlasic - 26

Patrice Bergeron - 28
Sidney Crosby - 26
Jonathan Toews - 25
John Tavares - 23
Jamie Benn - 24
Corey Perry - 28
Ryan Getzlaf - 28
Matt Duchene - 23
...with Rick Nash and Jeff Carter clocking in at 29.
edit: And Stamkos at 24 + Giroux at 26 for good measure.

Where did you pull the 7 players bit from? Your eternal pessimism is just unbelievable sometimes.
28 is not "mid 20's" I'm not sure how that's confusing at all.

I also stated "playing in the gold medal match" Not sure how that was confusing either given you quoted my post and apparently read it.

ps I did think Vlasic wouldn't be playing today. I got that one wrong, admitted. That said I don't think much of him or Subban.

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02-23-2014, 02:49 PM
  #305
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We still have the best players 24 and under and its not even close.

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02-23-2014, 02:52 PM
  #306
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@Replacement

While there hasn't necessarily been a Doughty drafted in recent years, Keith and Weber were both 2nd round picks in 2002 and 2003, respectively. Neither were expected to become the players that they have. For all we know, the next elite CAN defensemen might emerge out of nowhere.

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02-23-2014, 02:53 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by BleedingOil View Post
We still have the best players 24 and under and its not even close.
Yet you spent the entire last two weeks groaning about this club and complaining about it not scoring. I actually liked this current club and performance just ftr.

apologies if by chance if I mistook you for some other poster.

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02-23-2014, 02:55 PM
  #308
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@Replacement

While there hasn't necessarily been a Doughty drafted in recent years, Keith and Weber were both 2nd round picks in 2002 and 2003, respectively. Neither were expected to become the players that they have. For all we know, the next elite CAN defensemen might emerge out of nowhere.
Agreed here, and thanks for the first answer to my specific question. thanks again.

In anycase another outstanding performance by Canada today and sorry if my post distracted the thread. It isn't really my fault that whenever I state anything all the responses tend to be to that.

Whats really impressive is giving up 3 goals in 6GP. D was going to win this medal round. Yanks had the completely wrong idea.

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02-23-2014, 02:56 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Toydarian View Post
@Replacement

While there hasn't necessarily been a Doughty drafted in recent years, Keith and Weber were both 2nd round picks in 2002 and 2003, respectively. Neither were expected to become the players that they have. For all we know, the next elite CAN defensemen might emerge out of nowhere.
Ya, and Ekblad looks to be a stud.

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02-23-2014, 03:01 PM
  #310
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28 is not "mid 20's" I'm not sure how that's confusing at all.

I also stated "playing in the gold medal match" Not sure how that was confusing either given you quoted my post and apparently read it.
I'll bite, even though saying 28 (one whole half of a year off from the 22.5-27.5 year range I presume you're talking about) isn't included, and condescending to me about it, is hilarious.

Subtracting the 28 year olds, you're still at 10. 9 if you want to be really curmudgeonly and pull Subban out of the example. Not including Stamkos and Tavares just because they didn't play in the Gold Medal game is simply an asinine stance. They are clearly a part of Canada and Canada's future. Or do you think they wouldn't have been involved, if healthy? That's a very bad choice for a hill to die on.

No, we don't have a Crosby coming in. He was the probably the best Canadian forward drafted since Lindros 14 years and 3 Olympics earlier though. Those types don't grow on trees. Whether or not we have a Doughty is almost impossible to predict. Pronger wasn't Pronger until he was 24. So sure, you win there, but it doesn't excuse your other ridiculous stances.

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02-23-2014, 03:05 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Acumen View Post
I'll bite, even though saying 28 (one whole half of a year off from the 22.5-27.5 year range I presume you're talking about) isn't included, and condescending to me about it, is hilarious.

Subtracting the 28 year olds, you're still at 10. 9 if you want to be really curmudgeonly and pull Subban out of the example. Not including Stamkos and Tavares just because they didn't play in the Gold Medal game is simply an asinine stance. They are clearly a part of Canada and Canada's future. Or do you think they wouldn't have been involved, if healthy? That's a very bad choice for a hill to die on.

No, we don't have a Crosby coming in. He was the probably the best Canadian forward drafted since Lindros

14 years and 3 Olympics earlier though. Those types don't grow on trees. Whether or not we have a Doughty is almost impossible to predict. Pronger wasn't Pronger until he was 24. So sure, you win there, but it doesn't excuse your other ridiculous stances.
I thought your reply was especially sarcastic given it being a first post on the board. Felt like a driveby and a bit odd. Anyway. Again, I stated players playing in this match. Subban did not play, Tavares obviously did not play. As stated the only thing I was wrong on was Vlasic. I thought he would not be in today until I watched.

ps the bolded is odd. ist post, new member. With clear agenda hmmm

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02-23-2014, 03:06 PM
  #312
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I would argue we might not see as dominating a defensive performance like we saw from CAN again, regardless of returning players.

Their play was as close to perfect as you are going to get in hockey. Expecting that kind of perfection as the norm is slightly unrealistic (in my opinion).

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02-23-2014, 03:10 PM
  #313
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I would argue we might not see as dominating a defensive performance like we saw from CAN again, regardless of returning players.

Their play was as close to perfect as you are going to get in hockey. Expecting that kind of perfection as the norm is slightly unrealistic (in my opinion).
Agreed here. One of the best D displays and a very solid top six. With a top 4 that any Nation would drool about.

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02-23-2014, 03:17 PM
  #314
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Yeah Canada's really due for a dry spell. If by dry spell you mean they only win three out of the next four golds instead of all four.

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02-23-2014, 03:23 PM
  #315
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Yeah Canada's really due for a dry spell. If by dry spell you mean they only win three out of the next four golds instead of all four.
Nobody said any different. Its been a great run and halcyon years for TC.

3 Oly golds in last 4 games is great.

We should be competitive in 2018 if NHL plays in Olys. With that possibly being a very veteran laden team.

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02-23-2014, 03:32 PM
  #316
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Whats really impressive is giving up 3 goals in 6GP. D was going to win this medal round. Yanks had the completely wrong idea.
It really is amazing. I don't think I've ever seen a team play such perfect hockey. The one criticism is that they had trouble burying their scoring chances, and that is true. But they had a couple of games where they were up against some outstanding goaltending performances.

They outplayed every single opponent they faced in every way. Even players who didn't really do much (Nash, St. Louis, Duchene, Marleau etc) never did anything poorly.

As I said, I don't think I've ever seen such a high level of hockey. You take the best players in the world and you get them to play like this... holy cow. I wish I could say I want the Oilers to take notes, but I don't think there is a team in the league that could truly emulate hockey like this team played.

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02-23-2014, 03:46 PM
  #317
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It really is amazing. I don't think I've ever seen a team play such perfect hockey. The one criticism is that they had trouble burying their scoring chances, and that is true. But they had a couple of games where they were up against some outstanding goaltending performances.

They outplayed every single opponent they faced in every way. Even players who didn't really do much (Nash, St. Louis, Duchene, Marleau etc) never did anything poorly.

As I said, I don't think I've ever seen such a high level of hockey. You take the best players in the world and you get them to play like this... holy cow. I wish I could say I want the Oilers to take notes, but I don't think there is a team in the league that could truly emulate hockey like this team played.
What was amazing was the team play, transition, schemes, and puck support all played at a very high level against the best opponents in the world. This looked and played very much like an actual team. Hats off to the coaches and planning that went into that.

We toyed with NZ in this tournament. Just owned transition and neutral ice and had numbers back all the time.

Canada today nearly scored twice in first 2 minutes, then Sweden had their best play over next 10mins until we scored. For last 45mins pretty dominant performance.

lol that Crosby scores in the second gold match in a row when some were concerned with his lack of scoring.

I love this D first brand of hockey btw, always do.

It was great in this tournament seeing guys like Crosby, Selanne, etc playing solid team roles.

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02-23-2014, 04:21 PM
  #318
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Even as good a team as some of Team Canada's coaches coach, it will feel a bit like waking up from a wonderful dream heading back to the NHL. Just a super mature win.

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02-23-2014, 04:24 PM
  #319
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Nobody said any different. Its been a great run and halcyon years for TC.

3 Oly golds in last 4 games is great.

We should be competitive in 2018 if NHL plays in Olys. With that possibly being a very veteran laden team.
Huh? You said:

"As evidenced by our World Junior crash and burns we should be enjoying these Oly wins right now. Because I see some bare spots up ahead. This was a veteran team that got us the win at the Olympics this year. "

You want to use the performance of teenagers in one and done emotional tournaments to predict the future of the highest level of Olympic hockey in 4, 8, or 12 years?

What is your definition of bare spots? 4th place? 6th place? Silver?
Only winning 1 of the next 4 Olympics?

You can claim that no one said any different, and technically you're right. You certainly never said those exact words. What you inferred was basically that team Canada was going to struggle in the future since 19 year olds couldn't string together a few lucky bounces in the last few world jrs tournaments.

So, let's hope that the team is still "competitive" as you say, when the next Olympics rolls around (if the NHLers are still going). If not, then we can blame one of the Sutter brothers for the way they coached the World Jr teams.

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02-23-2014, 04:49 PM
  #320
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The turn this thread has taken is a shining example of people that can't live in the moment.

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02-23-2014, 04:59 PM
  #321
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The turn this thread has taken is a shining example of people that can't live in the moment.
Yeah, fair response I guess. tbh I was really pumped during US game and win and certainly living in the moment. But since then my vehicle is ****ed, its -20, can't get to work tomorrow, have a huge week in front of me etc.

So I'm a little gnarly today. Sorry.

I think the reason I'm not excited today is such a foregone conclusion I felt this game was. Canada was winning today and I was 100% believing that. Another factor being start time and just seeing the score result then watching game later its not the same feeling. Never is.

Great win but oddly, like the Canadian players, this one wasn't as much a celebration. Although it should be.

Party on Canada, I'm ph ing AMA again...

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02-23-2014, 05:03 PM
  #322
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Huh? You said:

"As evidenced by our World Junior crash and burns we should be enjoying these Oly wins right now. Because I see some bare spots up ahead. This was a veteran team that got us the win at the Olympics this year. "

You want to use the performance of teenagers in one and done emotional tournaments to predict the future of the highest level of Olympic hockey in 4, 8, or 12 years?

What is your definition of bare spots? 4th place? 6th place? Silver?
Only winning 1 of the next 4 Olympics?

You can claim that no one said any different, and technically you're right. You certainly never said those exact words. What you inferred was basically that team Canada was going to struggle in the future since 19 year olds couldn't string together a few lucky bounces in the last few world jrs tournaments.

So, let's hope that the team is still "competitive" as you say, when the next Olympics rolls around (if the NHLers are still going). If not, then we can blame one of the Sutter brothers for the way they coached the World Jr teams.
When I say that theres not many stars of the calibre of Doughty, Crosby, Toews, Stamkos(all of whom were clearly superstars very early on) developing that are under 24 its pretty clear what I mean. People can take one post in isolation and **** all over my opinion I guess, that's fun. But its a discussion, I've made my point clear, and so far only Tavares has been mentioned. When I'm talking players under 24 it should be fairly obvious that the "trouble going forward refers to when the dry spell might occur due to that demographic. Obviously a solid core is going to be around for the next Oly provided the NHL continues to compete in them.

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02-23-2014, 05:42 PM
  #323
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That was as elusive a post as I've seen here.

Stop beating around the bush and say what you mean.

Are you stating that Team Canada will struggle in 4,8, and/or 12 years and what is your definition of struggle?

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02-23-2014, 06:33 PM
  #324
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That was as elusive a post as I've seen here.

Stop beating around the bush and say what you mean.

Are you stating that Team Canada will struggle in 4,8, and/or 12 years and what is your definition of struggle?
Not elusive. I would pick 8 and 12 years from now due to Toews, Doughty, Crosby, Stamkos probably able to do the tough rowing for the next olympics. That's a bumper crop of great players I realize. Good that we have em. What more are coming down the pipe is the question I've posed throughout.

With the answer so far being Tavares and crickets..

talk about elusive..

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02-23-2014, 07:09 PM
  #325
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Not elusive. I would pick 8 and 12 years from now due to Toews, Doughty, Crosby, Stamkos probably able to do the tough rowing for the next olympics. That's a bumper crop of great players I realize. Good that we have em. What more are coming down the pipe is the question I've posed throughout.

With the answer so far being Tavares and crickets..

talk about elusive..
Well if you are asking about 8 years from now... hard to tell. Two Olympics ago how many of this current group of guys were the top line players they are now? Lots were promising players of course, but plenty were still establishing themselves as NHLers (Getzlaf, Perry, Carter, Weber, Keith etc). A handful hadn't even been drafted yet. Toews, Doughty and Stamkos among them.

12 years... who the hell knows. How many of the players on Team Canada 3 Olympics ago are even still in the NHL. Maybe 5? 12 years is a hell of a long time in hockey. The next Crosby might only be 6 or 7 years old right now.

The fact is that Canada is almost always going to have the best team on paper going into an Olympics (assuming best on best). The things that are going to prevent them from winning isn't going to be that the players aren't good enough. It'll be that they run into a really hot team, or they don't mesh well or injuries or whatever.


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