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Sochi Hockey Thread II (All Olympic Hockey Talk Here)

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Old
02-23-2014, 08:11 PM
  #326
Ramrod
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Not elusive. I would pick 8 and 12 years from now due to Toews, Doughty, Crosby, Stamkos probably able to do the tough rowing for the next olympics. That's a bumper crop of great players I realize. Good that we have em. What more are coming down the pipe is the question I've posed throughout.

With the answer so far being Tavares and crickets..

talk about elusive..
I think one major issue you're failing to see is that Canada isn't icing their best U20 lineup at the WJCs. Many players are in the NHL and aren't released for the games -- some players 2 years into their NHL career are still eligible for the WJC.

When you take that into account, Canada would be able to ice a significantly better lineup without those restrictions.

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02-23-2014, 08:15 PM
  #327
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I think one major issue you're failing to see is that Canada isn't icing their best U20 lineup at the WJCs. Many players are in the NHL and aren't released for the games -- some players 2 years into their NHL career are still eligible for the WJC.

When you take that into account, Canada would be able to ice a significantly better lineup without those restrictions.
Thanks, helpful feedback and you're correct in that I wasn't realizing we were not sending our best.

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02-23-2014, 08:18 PM
  #328
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Well if you are asking about 8 years from now... hard to tell. Two Olympics ago how many of this current group of guys were the top line players they are now? Lots were promising players of course, but plenty were still establishing themselves as NHLers (Getzlaf, Perry, Carter, Weber, Keith etc). A handful hadn't even been drafted yet. Toews and Doughty being among them.

12 years... who the hell knows. How many of the players on Team Canada 3 Olympics ago are even still in the NHL. Maybe 5? 12 years is a hell of a long time in hockey. The next Crosby might only be 6 or 7 years old right now.

The fact is that Canada is almost always going to have the best team on paper going into an Olympics (assuming best on best). The things that are going to prevent them from winning isn't going to be that the players aren't good enough. It'll be that they run into a really hot team, or they don't mesh well or injuries or whatever.
Yeah, I don't know how this became the discussion in anycase. On slow days here (and who would think this would be one) it seems anything I state just becomes a focal point of 20 replies. lol

Why isn't anybody talking about the GREAT WIN TODAY!

Great game, great team. Doughty continues to be a god.
Doughty, Crosby, Toews, Bergeron et all were great today.

I would say the only player I wasn't impressed with was Vlasic and to some degree Rick Nash.

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02-23-2014, 08:58 PM
  #329
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I'm overflowing with joy right now, I feel privileged to have watched such a perfectly played final by our team. What a wonderful moment.

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02-23-2014, 09:11 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Yeah, I don't know how this became the discussion in anycase. On slow days here (and who would think this would be one) it seems anything I state just becomes a focal point of 20 replies. lol

Why isn't anybody talking about the GREAT WIN TODAY!

Great game, great team. Doughty continues to be a god.
Doughty, Crosby, Toews, Bergeron et all were great today.

I would say the only player I wasn't impressed with was Vlasic and to some degree Rick Nash.
You do seem kind of like an old angry litigator...

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02-23-2014, 09:33 PM
  #331
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You do seem kind of like an old angry litigator...
heh, no. But communication is definitely in my job description.

Anyway, back to the game.

surprised people not talking about it or mentioning this specifically.

Forsberg was complaining about the officiating and it being Canadian officials.

Yet Berglund smashes Kunitz head right into the top of the player bench and gets 2mins.

That was the scariest play I'd seen all season and Berglund gets 2.

Under the types of refs Forsberg wanted that should net 5 and an immediate expulsion.

I hope somebody took notes and Berglund is going to eat his come playoff time. What a complete pos.

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02-23-2014, 10:34 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Not elusive. I would pick 8 and 12 years from now due to Toews, Doughty, Crosby, Stamkos probably able to do the tough rowing for the next olympics. That's a bumper crop of great players I realize. Good that we have em. What more are coming down the pipe is the question I've posed throughout.

With the answer so far being Tavares and crickets..

talk about elusive..
I can appreciate this answer for sure. Thanks

As for who is coming down the pipe, it's not my issue. I'm not trying to predict the future. However, who knows how good some of the more recent draft picks will actually be, or if a player like Taylor Hall takes the next step. There are a lot of options out there for Canada. All I know is that from 1998-2004 the Canadians didn't win a single World Jr championship and now look at what we have - pure dominance on the highest level where many of those kids from that era of losing are now integral to gold medals. In 1998 Roberto Luongo didn't win a single game and the team placed 8th at the World Jrs. However he won gold in Vancouver.

The smart money is on Canada maintaining it's passion and high level of skill in the sport of hockey. No guarantee of success, but betting against them doesn't seem wise.

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02-24-2014, 12:06 AM
  #333
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I hope, that in 12 years, there are rocket skates involved.

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02-24-2014, 03:22 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
heh, no. But communication is definitely in my job description.

Anyway, back to the game.

surprised people not talking about it or mentioning this specifically.

Forsberg was complaining about the officiating and it being Canadian officials.

Yet Berglund smashes Kunitz head right into the top of the player bench and gets 2mins.

That was the scariest play I'd seen all season and Berglund gets 2.

Under the types of refs Forsberg wanted that should net 5 and an immediate expulsion.

I hope somebody took notes and Berglund is going to eat his come playoff time. What a complete pos.
I always thought there was a greater risk in the refs overcompensating then Canada benefitting. It was a well called game imo, the reason I found it questionable having canadian refs was that IF there was a doubtful call, which happens most every game, you'd be facing a lot of talk if that was because the refs might be biased/overcompensating, however since Canada was so much better this never was a problem. I didn't think the Berglund hit was that bad, came from the side it wasn't really blindsided since Kunitz turned just before the hit, a bit sloppy from both players and worth 2 mins but not much more imo but sure I do carry bias. You get injured in hockey, it happens.

Canada was dominant, we didn't really put up much of a fight. Our forward crop just wasn't good enough to even frighten the brilliant canadian D. The only forward who looked like he could do anything was Kruger who really impressed me, very strong on the puck, great on face offs, great defensively and created more offense than I thought he would. Based on what I saw he's probably capable of playing a bigger role than he does in Chicago. The rest either looked slow and old; Sedin, Louie etc or just no good enough; Landeskog, Nyqvist, Silfverberg some guys held their own defensively, Hagelin, Jimmie E, but just didn't have the skill to produce offense. And our centers outside of Kruger were terrible.

Our d-men were ok in general, but the questionable choices made by our coach before the games, picking chemistry and "good guys" in the form of Oduya, Jonathan Eriksson and Tallinder over the better players in the form of Hedman and using OEL as a 7th D really backfired since Oduya started giving away pucks when TC picked up the pace and forechecked us hard and Erikssons mistake led to the goal that killed the game. Typical swedish coach who picks the safe players to create a good team instead of taking the chance with the more skilled player and maybe miss out on chemistry for the possibility of a team with higher ceiling. Imo Marts didn't truly go for the gold with those selections, he built a regular season team. He got badly outcoached in the final as well.

Lundqvist is fantastic and kept it from ending in an embarassing 6,7-0 loss.

Us swedes have an incredible D core to look forward to but 2-3 out of Filip Forsberg, Elias Lindholm, William Nylander, Alexander Wennberg, Andreas Johnsson better turn out elite offensive players or we'll lack the offensive power to challenge Canada going forward. Our only truly great forward is Zetterberg and he's getting up there in age and his back problems aren't promising. The Sedins have looked bad this season. Bäckström is still fairly young but not a man for the big games, juiced on allergy meds or not. Steen is a great two-way player but lacks the high end skill to create on his own. Landeskog projects as a great player, love him when he's on his game, but is more of the third guy on a top line than the guy who drives it, looked really lost in these olympics as well.

We didn't have an actual top line these games and that left us with no chance against a strong canadian team and unless some of the youngsters turn out that's probably going to be our achilles heel going forward. D wins championship, but when two teams carry great D you need the high end forwards to be gamebreakers. TC got that in spades. Sweden don't. Well deserved victory for Canada.

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02-24-2014, 04:13 AM
  #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Yeah, I don't know how this became the discussion in anycase. On slow days here (and who would think this would be one) it seems anything I state just becomes a focal point of 20 replies. lol

Why isn't anybody talking about the GREAT WIN TODAY!

Great game, great team. Doughty continues to be a god.
Doughty, Crosby, Toews, Bergeron et all were great today.

I would say the only player I wasn't impressed with was Vlasic and to some degree Rick Nash.
that game may be the most perfectly played game I have ever seen. Text book execution, from start to finish. As close to a mistake free as you can get. the Swedes were somewhat scary in the first, but were still out-played. after that is was total domination.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doulos View Post
I can appreciate this answer for sure. Thanks

As for who is coming down the pipe, it's not my issue. I'm not trying to predict the future. However, who knows how good some of the more recent draft picks will actually be, or if a player like Taylor Hall takes the next step. There are a lot of options out there for Canada. All I know is that from 1998-2004 the Canadians didn't win a single World Jr championship and now look at what we have - pure dominance on the highest level where many of those kids from that era of losing are now integral to gold medals. In 1998 Roberto Luongo didn't win a single game and the team placed 8th at the World Jrs. However he won gold in Vancouver.

The smart money is on Canada maintaining it's passion and high level of skill in the sport of hockey. No guarantee of success, but betting against them doesn't seem wise.
I can't see Canada ever being on the level of were the Slovaks or Czechs are now (good, but not likely to medal), or even where the Finns are (very good, top 4 or 3, but never thought of as top 2). We will always be a medal contender, and feared by all. This year I believe Canada was rated at number 4, but you gotta know that in the back of everyone's mind Canada (along with Swedes) were the most likely to win gold. What happened in this Olympics was not a surprise. We had the best lineup, top to bottom.

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I always thought there was a greater risk in the refs overcompensating then Canada benefitting. It was a well called game imo, the reason I found it questionable having canadian refs was that IF there was a doubtful call, which happens most every game, you'd be facing a lot of talk if that was because the refs might be biased/overcompensating, however since Canada was so much better this never was a problem. I didn't think the Berglund hit was that bad, came from the side it wasn't really blindsided since Kunitz turned just before the hit, a bit sloppy from both players and worth 2 mins but not much more imo but sure I do carry bias. You get injured in hockey, it happens.

Canada was dominant, we didn't really put up much of a fight. Our forward crop just wasn't good enough to even frighten the brilliant canadian D. The only forward who looked like he could do anything was Kruger who really impressed me, very strong on the puck, great on face offs, great defensively and created more offense than I thought he would. Based on what I saw he's probably capable of playing a bigger role than he does in Chicago. The rest either looked slow and old; Sedin, Louie etc or just no good enough; Landeskog, Nyqvist, Silfverberg some guys held their own defensively, Hagelin, Jimmie E, but just didn't have the skill to produce offense. And our centers outside of Kruger were terrible.

Our d-men were ok in general, but the questionable choices made by our coach before the games, picking chemistry and "good guys" in the form of Oduya, Jonathan Eriksson and Tallinder over the better players in the form of Hedman and using OEL as a 7th D really backfired since Oduya started giving away pucks when TC picked up the pace and forechecked us hard and Erikssons mistake led to the goal that killed the game. Typical swedish coach who picks the safe players to create a good team instead of taking the chance with the more skilled player and maybe miss out on chemistry for the possibility of a team with higher ceiling. Imo Marts didn't truly go for the gold with those selections, he built a regular season team. He got badly outcoached in the final as well.

Lundqvist is fantastic and kept it from ending in an embarassing 6,7-0 loss.

Us swedes have an incredible D core to look forward to but 2-3 out of Filip Forsberg, Elias Lindholm, William Nylander, Alexander Wennberg, Andreas Johnsson better turn out elite offensive players or we'll lack the offensive power to challenge Canada going forward. Our only truly great forward is Zetterberg and he's getting up there in age and his back problems aren't promising. The Sedins have looked bad this season. Bäckström is still fairly young but not a man for the big games, juiced on allergy meds or not. Steen is a great two-way player but lacks the high end skill to create on his own. Landeskog projects as a great player, love him when he's on his game, but is more of the third guy on a top line than the guy who drives it, looked really lost in these olympics as well.

We didn't have an actual top line these games and that left us with no chance against a strong canadian team and unless some of the youngsters turn out that's probably going to be our achilles heel going forward. D wins championship, but when two teams carry great D you need the high end forwards to be gamebreakers. TC got that in spades. Sweden don't. Well deserved victory for Canada.
very insightful and honest post.

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02-24-2014, 04:31 AM
  #336
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Originally Posted by OiledUp View Post
I always thought there was a greater risk in the refs overcompensating then Canada benefitting. It was a well called game imo, the reason I found it questionable having canadian refs was that IF there was a doubtful call, which happens most every game, you'd be facing a lot of talk if that was because the refs might be biased/overcompensating, however since Canada was so much better this never was a problem. I didn't think the Berglund hit was that bad, came from the side it wasn't really blindsided since Kunitz turned just before the hit, a bit sloppy from both players and worth 2 mins but not much more imo but sure I do carry bias. You get injured in hockey, it happens.

Canada was dominant, we didn't really put up much of a fight. Our forward crop just wasn't good enough to even frighten the brilliant canadian D. The only forward who looked like he could do anything was Kruger who really impressed me, very strong on the puck, great on face offs, great defensively and created more offense than I thought he would. Based on what I saw he's probably capable of playing a bigger role than he does in Chicago. The rest either looked slow and old; Sedin, Louie etc or just no good enough; Landeskog, Nyqvist, Silfverberg some guys held their own defensively, Hagelin, Jimmie E, but just didn't have the skill to produce offense. And our centers outside of Kruger were terrible.

Our d-men were ok in general, but the questionable choices made by our coach before the games, picking chemistry and "good guys" in the form of Oduya, Jonathan Eriksson and Tallinder over the better players in the form of Hedman and using OEL as a 7th D really backfired since Oduya started giving away pucks when TC picked up the pace and forechecked us hard and Erikssons mistake led to the goal that killed the game. Typical swedish coach who picks the safe players to create a good team instead of taking the chance with the more skilled player and maybe miss out on chemistry for the possibility of a team with higher ceiling. Imo Marts didn't truly go for the gold with those selections, he built a regular season team. He got badly outcoached in the final as well.

Lundqvist is fantastic and kept it from ending in an embarassing 6,7-0 loss.

Us swedes have an incredible D core to look forward to but 2-3 out of Filip Forsberg, Elias Lindholm, William Nylander, Alexander Wennberg, Andreas Johnsson better turn out elite offensive players or we'll lack the offensive power to challenge Canada going forward. Our only truly great forward is Zetterberg and he's getting up there in age and his back problems aren't promising. The Sedins have looked bad this season. Bäckström is still fairly young but not a man for the big games, juiced on allergy meds or not. Steen is a great two-way player but lacks the high end skill to create on his own. Landeskog projects as a great player, love him when he's on his game, but is more of the third guy on a top line than the guy who drives it, looked really lost in these olympics as well.

We didn't have an actual top line these games and that left us with no chance against a strong canadian team and unless some of the youngsters turn out that's probably going to be our achilles heel going forward. D wins championship, but when two teams carry great D you need the high end forwards to be gamebreakers. TC got that in spades. Sweden don't. Well deserved victory for Canada.
That pretty much sums it up for me as well. I will add one thing which I found extremely annoying/depressing: the lack of effort in the 3rd period. To be fair Canada did an excellent job of shutting us down but at the same time I felt as if they gave up way too early.

I bet half of my house that if the Finns would have been in the same situation they would have worked their ***** off until the very end and left the ice on stretchers if necessary.

They wouldn't have won anyway and chances are they would have given up a couple of more goals but it would have felt a hell of a lot better losing a gold like that rather than putting up 3 shots on goal and 30 missed passes in the 3rd.



I am also extremely disappointed that we couldn't field our best team in terms of forwards. I know it is a part of hockey and that all teams need to handle injuries (Tavares, Stamkos, Filppula, Koivo, Barkov, etc.) but at this point I have a hard time digesting the fact that we were more or less missing our entire skilled center core in Sedin, Zetterberg and Backstrom. I don't think we would have made it anyway seeing how Canada played us in the final but it still bugs me.

Really impressive tournament by the Canadians. I had my doubts in the beginning (when I didn't really pay close attention) but they dominated defensively and did not need to rely on the skill of the forward group to win.

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02-24-2014, 09:15 AM
  #337
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Not once was there a game that I thought to myself we were going to lose. Every game we were leading and just outright dominating the play. Quite amazing to have witnessed something like this.

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02-24-2014, 04:31 PM
  #338
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I called a Canada win in this OLY. Never worried once. This team was dominant defensively and like I said its what was going to win in this tourney. Great team we have now. But I don't see young players coming up that look to be as good.



Article by Mike Ziesberger suggesting some possible names for 2018.

Of note, Taylor Hall, PK Subban, Steven Stamkos, John Tavares, Matt Duchene, Tyler Seguin, Jeff Skinner, Jordan Eberle, Logan Couture.

On defense its harder because usually defenders take longer to develop. Possibilities include Pietrangelo, Justin Schultz, Morgan Rielly, Ryan Murray, Tyson Barrie.


http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/23...ns-hockey-team

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02-24-2014, 07:49 PM
  #339
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TSN's Mike Johnson's 2018 Olympic Team forwards:

Taylor Hall - Sidney Crosby - Steven Stamkos
Logan Couture - Jonathan Toews - Jordan Eberle
Jamie Benn - Ryan Getzlaf - Nathan MacKinnon
Matt Duchene - John Tavares - Tyler Seguin
Evander Kane, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins

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02-24-2014, 07:51 PM
  #340
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TSN's Mike Johnson's 2018 Olympic Team forwards:

Taylor Hall - Sidney Crosby - Steven Stamkos
Logan Couture - Jonathan Toews - Jordan Eberle
Jamie Benn - Ryan Getzlaf - Nathan MacKinnon
Matt Duchene - John Tavares - Tyler Seguin
Evander Kane, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
If Getzlaf is there, Perry will be there too.

Otherwise this list is pretty good.

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02-24-2014, 08:18 PM
  #341
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TSN's Mike Johnson's 2018 Olympic Team forwards:

Taylor Hall - Sidney Crosby - Steven Stamkos
Logan Couture - Jonathan Toews - Jordan Eberle
Jamie Benn - Ryan Getzlaf - Nathan MacKinnon
Matt Duchene - John Tavares - Tyler Seguin
Evander Kane, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins
If this is indeed the case, and Hall Ebs and Nuge are still on the Oil, I am a very happy camper. That is all.

My only gripe really is Kane in for Perry.

That first line...Hall and Crosby manufacturing chances for Stamkos to zip home...just terrifying

EDIT: I just wanted to say that Karlsson looked amazing on the big ice (tough game against Canada, but who wasn't stifled against us). Wowsers. Absolute treat to watch that guy skate and make smart, crisp passes all game long.


Last edited by SoftDumps: 02-24-2014 at 08:25 PM.
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02-24-2014, 09:55 PM
  #342
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He also had Ekblad on defense.

So 4 Oilers.

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02-24-2014, 10:33 PM
  #343
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Next Olympics I would not be surprised at all to see Canada keep the Hall-RNH-Eberle line together. Don't split up chemistry like that. In 4 years they will be beasts

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02-24-2014, 10:40 PM
  #344
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Next Olympics I would not be surprised at all to see Canada keep the Hall-RNH-Eberle line together. Don't split up chemistry like that. In 4 years they will be beasts
I remember in 2012 TSN had an Olympic roster prediction for 2014 and had the Hall-RNH-Eberle line together. I believe in 2018 2 or 3 will make the team, possibly all 3 if they hit their stride collectively soon.

Maybe the D corps will feature Nurse, Ekblad and Schultz I kid

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02-24-2014, 11:41 PM
  #345
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I wouldn't be surprised if none of Hall, RNH, Eberle make the team in 4 years.

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02-25-2014, 01:36 AM
  #346
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I wouldn't be surprised if none of Hall, RNH, Eberle make the team in 4 years.
Hall should make it. The other two will have a long way to go before looking like even remote candidates.

Eberles all round game for his age is ****.

With what TC has put down and the reliance and expectation of solid all round play and D and puck support the Eberles of the world don't stand much of a chance.

Eberles brand of hockey just wouldn't be required or wanted.

RNH has a lot of time to get himself untracked and turned around. Having a horrible year as is most of the team.

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02-25-2014, 02:12 AM
  #347
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Outside shot at McDavid too if he plays lights out.

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02-25-2014, 02:14 AM
  #348
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Hall should make it. The other two will have a long way to go before looking like even remote candidates.

Eberles all round game for his age is ****.

With what TC has put down and the reliance and expectation of solid all round play and D and puck support the Eberles of the world don't stand much of a chance.

Eberles brand of hockey just wouldn't be required or wanted.

RNH has a lot of time to get himself untracked and turned around. Having a horrible year as is most of the team.
Eberle was invited to the camp in the summer and his name popped up on that documentary about making the team as a guy who just isn't there yet. It's unlikely he was a legitimate candidate, but there was discussion.. Hockey Canada likes Eberle for sure. Not sure he'll ever make an Olympic squad as that is the best of the best, but it wouldn't be a surprise if he's considered.

I think Eberle actually has a better chance of making a team Canada than RNH.

Assuming Hall stays on track he should be a shoe in.

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02-25-2014, 03:56 AM
  #349
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Taylor Hall - Sidney Crosby - Steven Stamkos
Logan Couture - Jonathan Toews - Jordan Eberle
Jamie Benn - Ryan Getzlaf - Nathan MacKinnon
Matt Duchene - John Tavares - Tyler Seguin
Evander Kane, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins


MSL snubbed yet again... classless ********.

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02-25-2014, 10:44 AM
  #350
CornKicker
Still burning Lowood
 
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Taylor Hall - Sidney Crosby - Steven Stamkos
Logan Couture - Jonathan Toews - Jordan Eberle
Jamie Benn - Ryan Getzlaf - Nathan MacKinnon
Matt Duchene - John Tavares - Tyler Seguin
Evander Kane, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins


MSL snubbed yet again... classless ********.
so did giroux lol philly fans must be raging

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