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Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XXII: St Louis vs St Louis

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Old
02-24-2014, 08:43 AM
  #51
Tawnos
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Originally Posted by pixel View Post
Stewart + Schmaltz + pick would be better for this club going forward.

This is classic Sather, "i recognize that name, lets trade for him!".
Is it? Or is it that the best offer he's gotten for Callahan so far has been Stewart+pick?

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02-24-2014, 08:44 AM
  #52
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He's a heart and soul 40-50p winger. He's been a great Ranger.
MSL is a heart and soul 90 point winger. Cheaper cap next year too. He'll be a greater Ranger... just maybe not for long... but who gives a ****... you turn a guy that's going to walk for a top line scoring champ who has a lower cap hit... you do it!

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02-24-2014, 08:44 AM
  #53
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This team has turned it around, is well in playoff position, not a rebuild situation at all.

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Old
02-24-2014, 08:45 AM
  #54
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Because according to some, trading Callahan signals "rebuild".

It's possible to trade veterans at the end of their tenure with the team, for young assets, and still be a competitive team. There is enough veteran leadership on this team, trading Callahan for a young player (younger than St. Louis especially) won't effect "Lundqvist's window" the way some would have you believe. Didn't Henrik sign a long-term deal? His window isn't closing any time soon.

What does St. Louis do for this club? In the short term does it make us better than Pittsburgh, Boston, Anaheim, Chicago, San Jose, LA, even Tampa Bay? The answer is no. In the long term what does it do for us other than waste a perfectly good trade chip on an aging player for some dillusional shot in the dark run at a Cup we are not winning this or next season.

Lack of foresight.

Stewart + Schmaltz + pick would be better for this club going forward.

This is classic Sather, "i recognize that name, lets trade for him!".
Amen. And I'm surprised at the number of posters here that are already convincing themselves to go along with it. I guess more subscribe to "anything can happen" than I realized.

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02-24-2014, 08:45 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
St. Louis is much better than Jagr.
No doubt about that, but Jagr would have been "free". I know it looks like Cally will price himself out so we don't want him to leave for free, but it's still a piece.


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If he asked for a trade and indicated he wants to go to the Rangers.....
Yeah, but it's still a business, honestly, I just don't see Yzerman doing that trade 1-1. If MSL wants out, the Lightning can't afford to lose their top scorer for "nothing" only cuz he asked for a trade. If it happens, great. But I am iffy.

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02-24-2014, 08:49 AM
  #56
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honestly the way this team was playing prior to the break whats not to say that MSL will put this offense over the top?

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02-24-2014, 08:49 AM
  #57
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Am I the only one that hates the fact that Callahan is probably being moved? This guy is 100% guts and heart. Yeah yeah, he's been hurt and all that...it happens to the best players, but he's been coming back to form lately. Had an excellent Olympics. I'll hate to see him in another sweater. And for St. Louie? I have a lot of respect for him and he's still a great player. What I can't stand (if this goes down) is that we lose a ton of grit and get older.

Not diggin' this.

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02-24-2014, 08:50 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Exactly.

We need a #1C and preferably a PMD, both McDonagh's age or younger in order to finally have the infrastructure of a consistent contender. Any moves that don't lead directly to one of those players should lead to other assets that can be used to get them down the line (either in subsequent deals or directly through the draft).

Acquiring a 38 year old who plays our deepest organizational position is a short-sighted distraction that actually moves us away from what should be our long term goal, DESPITE the fact that, yes, he is better right now than the player we'd be giving up.

Someone over the weekend ridiculed the idea of getting picks and prospects by saying "what are we trying to be now, the Tampa Bay Rays"? Sticking with that analogy, no, we don't want to be the TB Rays (although they'd be great if hey had any budget at all to keep he players they develop); what we should want to be is the 1990s Yankees. Get core young players at C, SS, CF and LH SP. Then and only then you look at bringing in Clemens and Cone. If this deal went down as proposed, it would be a lot more like a lazy, name- and headline-chasing Steinbrenner move from the 80s.
You read my mind here. I think MSL is a tremendous player, and certainly an upgrade over Callahan, but he's an upgrade at a position that we're already quite strong at. He's a RW and plays the same spot on the PP that Nash and Zuccarello do. So we continue to have average center depth, below average LW depth, but 3 excellent NHL-level RW's with two solid prospects in the AHL. This smacks of the Gaborik situation last year where the coach is going to have to shuffle lines and play guys out of position just to get enough ice time for Nash and MSL.

Marty has been one of my favorite players for a long time, but I'm not as excited about this deal as I would have been even a couple years ago. Also, I know people love the idea of Marty teaching our own Hobbit how to be an all-star, but Zuccarello isn't built the same way and doesn't have the acceleration that Marty does. Hard to teach a player when he doesn't have the same gifts that you do.

Why do I suddenly get the feeling that if Girardi doesn't sign, that he goes to San Jose for Dan Boyle?

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02-24-2014, 08:50 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
If MSL has a NMC and the Rangers are pretty much the only team he'll waive to go to (because of playing with Richards again, etc etc who knows what the excuses are) then Tampa might feel like their hand is forced and will do a 1 for 1 trade, BUT that still only makes sense if Yzerman is so bent on being honorable and acquiescing to a trade request that he would take a mediocre return. If there isn't a good deal to be made he'd be better telling MSL to suck it up and play and try to win another cup with Tampa
My apologies.
I had it backwards.
Kypreos had the info. He tweeted last night at 10:34 that MSL has a full NMC NOW that expires next season.

This sounds more promising
Best of both worlds for NYR. He could be demanding a trade now (Only to NYR). Glen could then flip him at the deadline next season if need be without having to run it through the player.

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Old
02-24-2014, 08:52 AM
  #60
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Has St. Louis said he wants to go to the Rangers? I honestly haven't been keeping up with every detail of this whole thing.

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02-24-2014, 08:52 AM
  #61
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Am I the only one that hates the fact that Callahan is probably being moved? This guy is 100% guts and heart. Yeah yeah, he's been hurt and all that...it happens to the best players, but he's been coming back to form lately. Had an excellent Olympics. I'll hate to see him in another sweater. And for St. Louie? I have a lot of respect for him and he's still a great player. What I can't stand (if this goes down) is that we lose a ton of grit and get older.

Not diggin' this.
I hate the fact that this team is so willing to overpay for players from other teams.

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02-24-2014, 08:53 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kane One View Post
Has St. Louis said he wants to go to the Rangers? I honestly haven't been keeping up with every detail of this whole thing.
No he hasn't said anything. This all came up while he was at the Olympics and no one is going to be like "Marty congrats on the gold medal by the way do you want to be traded to the Rangers?"

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02-24-2014, 08:54 AM
  #63
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honestly the way this team was playing prior to the break whats not to say that MSL will put this offense over the top?
Agree totally. I think MSL could be a massive X factor for us. Idk how true it is, but I doubt Boomer would be talking so much about it if he didn't think it would happen.

MSL would, IMO, probably help us compete against both Boston and Pittsburgh in the playoffs. And while I love Callahan, he's not worth what he wants

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Old
02-24-2014, 08:56 AM
  #64
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Supposing this is real, and MSL did request a trade and it is to the NYR.

Where does he play?

NYR would be loaded on the RW. Guessing Nash could try to play no the Left side? Or so you even mess with the top line?

...All good problems I suppose?


I lisetened to Boomer and Carton for the first time in what seems like an eternity this morning. After 2 or 3 minutes I remembered how much of a ass Carton is and turned it off. He's that bad.

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02-24-2014, 08:56 AM
  #65
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Doesn't MSL workout in CT in the Summer ?

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Old
02-24-2014, 08:57 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
And it isn't just his body. People bring up that he's a fitness freak all the time, but the reality is that most players don't retire because their body breaks down. They retire because the reaction time deteriorates to the point where they're no longer an effective hockey player at the NHL level. There's no way to predict when or how fast that will happen.
Look at Rod Brind'Amour. The guy was known league-wide as "The Bod" and would work out for 45 minutes AFTER THE GAME WAS OVER. Yet his game absolutely fell off a cliff thanks to one knee injury that most younger players would recover from.

It's a very dangerous move to assume that a 39 year old player is going to remain healthy, no matter how healthy he has been previously.

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02-24-2014, 08:58 AM
  #67
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The way i picture this is:

Gorton: "Thanks, Doug, I'll be in touch" *click*
Sather: "Who was that there on the speak device, Sonny?"
Gorton: "Doug Armstrong, I've laid the ground work for a deal that would bring in Stewart, a young power forward, and a couple of other nice pieces for the future, in exchange for Callahan. He and his agent refuse to meet in the middle and we are running out of time here".
Sather: "Who is this Stewart fellow? Never heard of him. Move aside, sonny, let me show you how it's done...didn't Braddy boy win a Stanley Cup recently?
Gorton: "...about a decade ago..."
Sather: "Just like yesterday!" "Say wasn't that nice young fellow Martin on that team?"
Gorton: "Martin St. Louis?"
Sather: "Thats the young fellow!"
Gorton: "Glen, he's 38 and towards the end of his career"
Sather: "Prime of his life!"
Gorton: "...old to be playing at such a high level of our sport...we should really focus on this club's longevity, Glen..."
Sather: "Hand me that there speak device, sonny...now move aside...Hello, Stevie boy, I hear that young fellow Martin is angry with ya...how's about Callahan for your young boy there"
Gorton: (under his breath) "Demented old fart"

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Old
02-24-2014, 08:58 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by RangersChamps2417 View Post
Agree totally. I think MSL could be a massive X factor for us. Idk how true it is, but I doubt Boomer would be talking so much about it if he didn't think it would happen.

MSL would, IMO, probably help us compete against both Boston and Pittsburgh in the playoffs. And while I love Callahan, he's not worth what he wants
He'll absolutely give us more offense, but physically we'll be doomed against those teams now.

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Old
02-24-2014, 08:58 AM
  #69
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Could be that Tampa is working out a contract. Hopefully, this will be done by Thursday, which Boomer said it will.

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02-24-2014, 08:58 AM
  #70
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Doesn't MSL workout in CT in the Summer ?
Yes. And has a house in Fairfield County.

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02-24-2014, 08:59 AM
  #71
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You read my mind here. I think MSL is a tremendous player, and certainly an upgrade over Callahan, but he's an upgrade at a position that we're already quite strong at. He's a RW and plays the same spot on the PP that Nash and Zuccarello do. So we continue to have average center depth, below average LW depth, but 3 excellent NHL-level RW's with two solid prospects in the AHL. This smacks of the Gaborik situation last year where the coach is going to have to shuffle lines and play guys out of position just to get enough ice time for Nash and MSL.

Marty has been one of my favorite players for a long time, but I'm not as excited about this deal as I would have been even a couple years ago. Also, I know people love the idea of Marty teaching our own Hobbit how to be an all-star, but Zuccarello isn't built the same way and doesn't have the acceleration that Marty does. Hard to teach a player when he doesn't have the same gifts that you do.

Why do I suddenly get the feeling that if Girardi doesn't sign, that he goes to San Jose for Dan Boyle?
What line shuffling do they have to do? Nash and MSL get the top 6 RW spots and Zucc comes back to his third line spot...it's not complicated. I also think you can have Zucc and one of Nash or MSL on the ice at the same time on a PP. Zucc is very flexible because he's so gifted as a PP playmaker.

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02-24-2014, 08:59 AM
  #72
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Doesn't MSL workout in CT in the Summer ?
He does. His wife's family is from the area.

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Old
02-24-2014, 09:02 AM
  #73
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Look at Rod Brind'Amour. The guy was known league-wide as "The Bod" and would work out for 45 minutes AFTER THE GAME WAS OVER. Yet his game absolutely fell off a cliff thanks to one knee injury that most younger players would recover from.

It's a very dangerous move to assume that a 39 year old player is going to remain healthy, no matter how healthy he has been previously.
Yeah, it is... on the flip side, I think it's an equal risk that the young assets you might get back for Callahan will work out.

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Old
02-24-2014, 09:03 AM
  #74
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The only curious part to this situation to me now is, if Boomer is confident enough to say that this has been in the works for a while - and he's hearing Callahan for St. Louis straight up - where are the rest of the beat guys on this one?

Anyway, getting St. Louis for Callahan straight up would be an absolute steal by Sather.

You guys want to stockpile draft picks and prospects? We'll flip St. Louis for that if we need to. He'd be a much more pure rental than Callahan, too. Despite that he'll be what, 41 when his contract expires? He'll garner interest even then as a rental, I'm sure.
Our beat-guys haven't been in the know for a long time.

Brooks obviously get some issue, when the org. want to let everyone know that they are trying to get something done. That puts perssuer on the other team, like with Nash. I don't think that is the case here.

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Old
02-24-2014, 09:05 AM
  #75
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And meanwhile, Pittsburgh is in on Stewart, Islanders are in on Kane.

How are we going to compete with these teams moving forward when they have the size and depth we do not have?

St. Louis, Zuccarello...if the goal was to construct the smallest and weakest team in the league, we would be on our way. Unfortunately, the goal is to win, and being smaller, not as deep, and not as good as your competition isn't the way to go.

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