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Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XXII: St Louis vs St Louis

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02-24-2014, 09:28 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
So get bigger and stronger in the bottom six.

Stamkos will be a FA in '15-'16 unless he resigns, which of course is a big possibility, but just imagine getting him at 27 with the cap space we save by letting certain people walk and not taking on any long term contracts.

On top of that 80% of our own fans know Callahan isn't going to get some mega package in return, you guys would really rather have Stewart and a late 1st? That's the exact kind of reclamation move we've made for years and they don't pan out very often.
There is almost 0% chance they let him leave.

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02-24-2014, 09:30 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
So get bigger and stronger in the bottom six.

Stamkos will be a FA in '15-'16 unless he resigns, which of course is a big possibility, but just imagine getting him at 27 with the cap space we save by letting certain people walk and not taking on any long term contracts.

On top of that 80% of our own fans know Callahan isn't going to get some mega package in return, you guys would really rather have Stewart and a late 1st? That's the exact kind of reclamation move we've made for years and they don't pan out very often.
Riiiiight, because franchise players always hit FA in their prime in the cap era. And of course he'll want to come here as opposed to all the other 28 teams. Remind me - when was the last time that happened? I'm having trouble recalling...

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02-24-2014, 09:30 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Mint View Post
He's a grinder and he's on the 3rd line. I don't see what is so farfetched about it.
Well if you're so big into semantics that you might want to add that the "reigning Art Ross trophy winner" is pushing 40 years old and played with this generations most dominant goal scorer last season, which Im sure helped those point totals.

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02-24-2014, 09:30 AM
  #104
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No its not weird.

If MSL is getting traded from a red-hot Tampa its because things has gone real sour there. No other reason. Tampa takes a decision to move him first, then they look at what the return might be.

And on to that topic, who is interested in MSL and what can they offer? Yes there is a bunch of contenders who would love to get him, and who would offer a 1st and a prospect that isn't that sexy. Look at where Tampa is at, its not time for them to flush this season. They have built long and hard to get to where they are right now. There just ain't many alternatives out there, ie teams that will trade a player for MSL that will take MSL's position in the line-up. I have a hard time seing anyone topping an offer for Cally for sure.

I don't buy that we will have to add picks and prospects. I am not saying that we will get MSL, what do I know, but Tampa is not moving him because of what the return will be, they are moving him because things have gone south. Otherwise they would "never" do it. If they have decided to move him, looking at what position they are in right now, who could make a better offer for them than we if we are moving Cally? He seems to be a real good fit for them.
MSL also has a NMC which will give him a lot of control, his family has an offseason home in Greenwhich, CT so I can't imagine they wouldn't be happy with him moving to NY.

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02-24-2014, 09:31 AM
  #105
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I can't help but think of that Cally vs. Erskine match-up in the playoffs. It was awesome and had everyone I watched the games with on their feet and pumpin fists. Of course I understand the $$ situation and his demands are high and impossible to meet, but this is something that is going to be sorely missed.

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02-24-2014, 09:32 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well if you're so big into semantics that you might want to add that the "reigning Art Ross trophy winner" is pushing 40 years old and played with this generations most dominant goal scorer last season, which Im sure helped those point totals.
And he outproduced the generation's second best goalscorer last yr.

With the exception of 2011-12, MSL has been on par or better than Stamkos in production. Let that sink in.

He's the player with the most points since last Olympics.

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02-24-2014, 09:32 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
There is almost 0% chance they let him leave.
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Riiiiight, because franchise players always hit FA in their prime in the cap era. And of course he'll want to come here as opposed to all the other 28 teams. Remind me - when was the last time that happened? I'm having trouble recalling...
I'm sorry my crystal ball is dusty, apparently yours isn't.

Did I say it was 100% guarantee, nope. I think I actually stated the opposite. But go ahead and assume that's what I meant. The point I was making is that having the extra cap in the cap era when talented players could potentially hit free agency isn't a bad thing.

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02-24-2014, 09:34 AM
  #108
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Yeah I guess the Rangers can court for Stamkos. Trade for MSL, sign his best bud, Downie (who will fill a need regardless). Probably a pipedream haha.

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02-24-2014, 09:34 AM
  #109
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So how long do we think boomer will keep this going, I love the guy and his show but this smells an awful lot like a ploy and I don't blame him for having some fun and doing it. How many of you went out of your way to listen to the show this morning to get the juicy details that never came. Callahans getting traded that's a foregone conclusion, why not drum up some rumors and **** with his 100K+ twitter followers, genius.

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02-24-2014, 09:34 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by pixel View Post
And meanwhile, Pittsburgh is in on Stewart, Islanders are in on Kane.

How are we going to compete with these teams moving forward when they have the size and depth we do not have?

St. Louis, Zuccarello...if the goal was to construct the smallest and weakest team in the league, we would be on our way. Unfortunately, the goal is to win, and being smaller, not as deep, and not as good as your competition isn't the way to go.
This team is plenty deep. They don't have much top end talent and plenty of teams even if we get MSL will still beat us there. I don't know where this ******** that the only team in the league with 9 players in double digits isn't deep is coming from. They're deep almost to a fault.

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02-24-2014, 09:35 AM
  #111
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It's possible that there aren't teams that are willing to trade good young assets for a few months of Callahan, who comes with completely ridiculous salary demands that no team who takes a rental at this point is likely to want to meet.
Ah yes, the old "we're looking at moving him for a 38 HOF winger, so the only other offers available must be 7th round picks" argument.

I mean, I guess it's possible, but I find it very hard to believe that there aren't any good rental packages out there comparable to others that we've seen in the past. Broken down ol' Clowe went for a 2nd, a 3rd and a 5th/conditional 2nd. You don't think you could get something similar bumped up a notch for Callahan?

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02-24-2014, 09:35 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Mint View Post
He's a grinder and he's on the 3rd line. I don't see what is so farfetched about it.
Callahan is not a third liner and I want the guy traded.

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02-24-2014, 09:36 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well if you're so big into semantics that you might want to add that the "reigning Art Ross trophy winner" is pushing 40 years old and played with this generations most dominant goal scorer last season, which Im sure helped those point totals.
873 points in 837 games since '02-'03 while missing only 7 games in that span is definitely an indication he's been carried by his linemates.

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02-24-2014, 09:37 AM
  #114
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Callahan is not a third liner and I want the guy traded.
He's a 3rd liner on the Rangers currently.... He has declining point production and plays a grinding style. He also isn't needed on the PP anymore with the emergence of Pouliot. So he's basically a weak ES player and average PKer.

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02-24-2014, 09:38 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I'm sorry my crystal ball is dusty, apparently yours isn't.

Did I say it was 100% guarantee, nope. I think I actually stated the opposite. But go ahead and assume that's what I meant. The point I was making is that having the extra cap in the cap era when talented players could potentially hit free agency isn't a bad thing.
Fine, leave aside the fact that you were very clearly implying that by trading for MSL we'll have a good shot at Stamkos if/when he hits free agency.

How exactly would our chances be worse if we got back young players/picks? Last time I checked the average EL SPC doesn't exactly break the bank...

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02-24-2014, 09:39 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Mint View Post
He's a 3rd liner on the Rangers currently.... He has declining point production and plays a grinding style. He also isn't needed on the PP anymore with the emergence of Pouliot. So he's basically a weak ES player and average PKer.
Im sorry, but your classification of Callahan is a joke.

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02-24-2014, 09:40 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Im sorry, but your classification of Callahan is a joke.
What would your classification of Callahan be?

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02-24-2014, 09:43 AM
  #118
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What would your classification of Callahan be?
I think he is a jack of all trades and a master of none. Offensively, he has put up solid 2nd line production his entire career, defensively he has amongst the highest IQ's in the game.

I dont see the need to diminish what a solid all-around player he has been for the Rangers just because of this situation. He is requesting far too much money and I think trading him is the right move.

...but Im not about to trash his legacy and how important hes been to this team just because of the contract squabble.

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02-24-2014, 09:43 AM
  #119
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Be cool my babies...Callahan is a great Ranger, his intangibles are great but his consistent set of injuries and and inconsistent offense does not even make him a borderline two-way player. He is a excellent grinder though.

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02-24-2014, 09:44 AM
  #120
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MSL would be a God send for this team in terms of adding pure talent and will-power. The guy is a freak. He and MZA would be exactly what this team needs as far as skilled playmaking forwards.

However, the lack of any size/grit would alarm me with this move.

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02-24-2014, 09:46 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Fine, leave aside the fact that you were very clearly implying that by trading for MSL we'll have a good shot at Stamkos if/when he hits free agency.

How exactly would our chances be worse if we got back young players/picks? Last time I checked the average EL SPC doesn't exactly break the bank...
Yeah except I guess it wasn't very clear to you what I was implying... I was implying that by not adding a long term contract we have a better chance to land premium talent if/when it hits free agency in the next few years by having money to spend.

Also I am terribly sorry for using facts instead of a hypothetical and naming MSL as a target instead of some mystery young player/pick combination. Considering we only have a few rumored deals to base this speculation on it made sense to me.

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02-24-2014, 09:47 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think he is a jack of all trades and a master of none. Offensively, he has put up solid 2nd line production his entire career, defensively he has amongst the highest IQ's in the game.

I dont see the need to diminish what a solid all-around player he has been for the Rangers just because of this situation. He is requesting far too much money and I think trading him is the right move.

...but Im not about to trash his legacy and how important hes been to this team just because of the contract squabble.
I think thats pretty spot on with where he is. I just dont understand why people assume we can get a 2/3rd liner for him with a top prospect and 1st round pick to boot. If you can trade a pending UFA average second liner and maybe a little more for 1 1/2 years of a legitimate 1st line RW I dont see why you dont do that.

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02-24-2014, 09:48 AM
  #123
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Exactly.

We need a #1C and preferably a PMD, both McDonagh's age or younger in order to finally have the infrastructure of a consistent contender. Any moves that don't lead directly to one of those players should lead to other assets that can be used to get them down the line (either in subsequent deals or directly through the draft).

Acquiring a 38 year old who plays our deepest organizational position is a short-sighted distraction that actually moves us away from what should be our long term goal, DESPITE the fact that, yes, he is better right now than the player we'd be giving up.

Someone over the weekend ridiculed the idea of getting picks and prospects by saying "what are we trying to be now, the Tampa Bay Rays"? Sticking with that analogy, no, we don't want to be the TB Rays (although they'd be great if hey had any budget at all to keep he players they develop); what we should want to be is the 1990s Yankees. Get core young players at C, SS, CF and LH SP. Then and only then you look at bringing in Clemens and Cone. If this deal went down as proposed, it would be a lot more like a lazy, name- and headline-chasing Steinbrenner move from the 80s.
I don't disagree with the beginning of this, but I think it's shortsighted. Regardless of team needs, the Ryan Callahan situation needs to be addressed. His contract expires this year, and his demands are ridiculous for the NYR. Either he had to be kept as an 'own rental' or moved. He wasn't returning any real 1C prospect, nor was a team with a lottery pick about to trade for him. If the possibility to get a 1C out of a grinder UFA, with Callahans numbers, and his supposed contract demands at the deadline existed every team would have 4 of them.

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02-24-2014, 09:49 AM
  #124
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MSL isn't some weak push over. He goes to the tough areas and wins battles. So he isn't punishing. Callahan beats himself bloody bruising the opposition to the point he is ineffective offensively.

Stewart might be here less than MSL would be, one more year on his contract and probably too much for the 3rd line.

I get the argument that we need to fix other positions. I just don't see how Cally gets a return that upgrades center, LW or pmd. We seem to be getting offers in the range of 3rd line rw plus prospect. If that seguin type deal is out there, by all means jump on that one. But from what we've seen, MSL is our best offer.

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02-24-2014, 09:51 AM
  #125
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Yeah except I guess it wasn't very clear to you what I was implying... I was implying that by not adding a long term contract we have a better chance to land premium talent if/when it hits free agency in the next few years by having money to spend.

Also I am terribly sorry for using facts instead of a hypothetical and naming MSL as a target instead of some mystery young player/pick combination. Considering we only have a few rumored deals to base this speculation on it made sense to me.
That's possible, but if MSL retires after next year for whatever reason, then they would be losing a skilled all-around 28 year old for a year and a half of St Louis + the ability to sign someone else whose own team didn't think was good enough to sign themselves?

I'd prefer some younger talent, although MSL would be a great return. I am still iffy on where the grit and size is going to ft in this line-up. Nash. Kreider. No one else? And I wouldn't consider Nash physical AT ALL.

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