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Trade Rumor/Speculation Thread XXII: St Louis vs St Louis

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Old
02-24-2014, 11:29 AM
  #176
Ail
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I still question why Tampa would want Callahan, but I do think the Rangers have pieces to trade them if they wanted to make a deal for MSL.

Would Hagelin/Kristo/mid round pick for MSL get it done?
No it doesn't because unless MSL is forcing the trade (giving NYR all the leverage) there will be no trade at all.

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02-24-2014, 11:30 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
He's a RFA so they have his rights. He is important but he can't just walk. The others can, and most likely will.
Can't say I'm all that worried about losing Moore, Boyle or Pouliot.

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02-24-2014, 11:31 AM
  #178
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Uhhh...Drouin?


Doh

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Old
02-24-2014, 11:32 AM
  #179
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Can't say I'm all that worried about losing Moore, Boyle or Pouliot.
Moore and Boyle have made us a great 4th line, and Poo has helped eons on the PP.

I think there is reason to worry just a tad

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02-24-2014, 11:32 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Giving Callahan a 3 year deal was a garbage move, which has only been compounded by acquiring more players with contracts running out this summer.

A 5 or 6 year deal at the age of 26 would have taken Callahan to a point where a better decision could have been made about how much more he has left.
100% agreed

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02-24-2014, 11:33 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by LetterJ View Post
The story as to St Louis wanting out has some legs: http://www.thestar.com/sports/sochi2...rom_tampa.html
That story articulates what I've been getting at very well.

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02-24-2014, 11:34 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think its ridiculous that St. Louis would throw a tantrum and demand a trade based off the Olympics.
why is it him throwing a tantrum?

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02-24-2014, 11:34 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I'm sorry, but I think you're conflating posters' opinions to fit your own narrative. I don't think that a lot of posters who are against this trade thought that the '11-'12 squad was a world-beater. Speaking for myself personally:

1) I didn't think that the '11-'12 squad was a serious contender (although of course I was rooting for them like hell once the deadline passed and the roster was set).

2) I don't think this team becomes a serious contender over the league powerhouses by adding another RW, no matter how good he is.

Regardless, I have no interest in building a one-and-done 5th or 6th best team that has a shot of winning out through a fortuitous tournament run and then sinking back to the middle of the pack next year or the year after. I want to build a consistent contender.
1) I'm just going by majority opinion in both cases. Most people were pissed about us breaking up a contender when we traded for Nash, and now most people who don't want MSL don't want him because we won't be a contender right now. Not everyone will hold both opinions.

2) Trading Cally for unknown picks and unproven prospects will make this team a consistent contender. We're not trading Kreider, Stepan, McDonagh, or Staal (at least not that I know of).

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02-24-2014, 11:35 AM
  #184
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He's a 3rd liner on the Rangers currently.... He has declining point production and plays a grinding style. He also isn't needed on the PP anymore with the emergence of Pouliot. So he's basically a weak ES player and average PKer.
It is gonna kill you if this deal goes down.

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02-24-2014, 11:35 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Giving Callahan a 3 year deal was a garbage move, which has only been compounded by acquiring more players with contracts running out this summer.

A 5 or 6 year deal at the age of 26 would have taken Callahan to a point where a better decision could have been made about how much more he has left.
That's true, unless management already decided at that point in time they knew how much they thought Callahan had left and decided 3 years was it for them. I'd say that was an underestimate all things considered now, but certainly not out of the question.

From the get go this hasn't looked like a deal was in any way trying to be reached reasonably from either side.

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02-24-2014, 11:37 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
You guys are focusing on the fact that I (and others) have said we need to fix other positions - and are then ignoring the second part, which is that it may take some time and additional steps to get there.

I'm not suggesting we can expect to get Barkov for Cally. What I AM suggesting is that we could get a 1st, 1-2 other assets and a conditional 1st if he re-signs with his new team. This is where the patience and long-term view comes into play.

Now you have more lottery tickets at finding the players you're missing in the draft - more chances to get the lucky hit on the next P. K. Subban or Claude Giroux. And you have more pieces to acquire similar players in subsequent deals in the future. Say Grigorenko does force his way out of Buffalo. Say a guy you think is a legit #1C prospect falls to #7-9 in the draft. If you've stockpiled young players, picks and prospects, THAT'S when you're in position to get those guys.
I think that is still a lofty return for Callahan. That is more than a tkachuk rental. Definitely more than hossa's rental price in hindsight.

I may be wrong, but I think Callahan would command an expendable roster player plus a high prospect/late first rd pick at best. Its arguable if any pick is better than 1-3 years of MSL, but I would rather have the player in this case.

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Old
02-24-2014, 11:38 AM
  #187
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Hi guys, long time NYR fan but I hang out on another board. Wanted to see the vibe here.
I'm in the minority regarding MSL. He is one of the greats, no doubt.

So I can say others in the past were also considered top notch when we made a deal.
How far do I go back, Marcel Dionne, Tim Kerr, Gomez, Drury and my favorite, Mike Ridley to the Caps for Bobby Carpenter. OK, some were free agents but they were all on the down-slide.

As mentioned by another poster, if we were going for the cup run now, it makes sense. To me, not so much.

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Old
02-24-2014, 11:38 AM
  #188
NernieBichols
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Giving Callahan a 3 year deal was a garbage move, which has only been compounded by acquiring more players with contracts running out this summer.

A 5 or 6 year deal at the age of 26 would have taken Callahan to a point where a better decision could have been made about how much more he has left.
Wholeheartedly agree

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Old
02-24-2014, 11:39 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Ail View Post
Old, however still somewhat relevant. Again, the question is, is MSL still upset now that he won gold?

If the answer is no, I am certain this trade will fizzle.
Tough to answer but I'd assume he still is. I imagine after getting slighted a 2nd time he decided he wanted to be traded and talked it over with his family and so forth. Once you get to that juncture and start thinking of what might be it's hard to reverse it and go the other way. Yes he got to go win a gold, but he only played 7 minutes a game and wasn't the teams first choice. It's like having the schools hottest girl turn you down for prom and then when her date gets sick last minute she asks you to go.

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02-24-2014, 11:40 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Ail View Post
Old, however still somewhat relevant. Again, the question is, is MSL still upset now that he won gold?

If the answer is no, I am certain this trade will fizzle.
MSL isn't 13 y/o. Sometimes things just go south in a relationship.

I am 100% sure that if MSL is getting traded it's because he and the org had a fall out. And it's not something that happend overnight. MSL has been rumored to be available several times. You never know what it is about, but Lecavaliers buyout for example could have played a part. In a situation like this, the not getting picked part is what bursts the bubble. Not a lone reason.

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02-24-2014, 11:40 AM
  #191
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Can't say I'm all that worried about losing Moore, Boyle or Pouliot.
I'm not too worried about it, but I'd like to keep them, especially Boyle. Boyle really feels like one of the only "glue guys" this team has left. Seems like he bonds with every new guy that comes in, and when someone who he's tight with leaves (DZ, Prust), he finds someone else to be cool with (Zucc). I think the 11-12 team had a lot of guys like that, and having that feeling in the room to any degree is good. Of course, for this to matter, the player also has to be good at his role, and I think Boyle is good at his current role now that we have AV who seems to recognize where Boyle fits best. If he wants something reasonable, I'd keep him.

Moore, I can't imagine he wants a huge raise, but he's good at 4C and he's a solid PK guy. I'd keep him too depending on what he wants.

Pouliot is a hard one. He's been good very recently, but he also had a period of uselessness. Since we have such a small window to judge him on, it's really hard to say what he's likely to be going forward with this team. If he is okay with a modest raise, keep him. If he wants to be paid as if he'll always be at the peak he's been at recently, cut the strings.

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Old
02-24-2014, 11:41 AM
  #192
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I love MSL, but is anyone else worried that he'll have 10 good games here and succumb to Richards/Gomez/Drury/Redden/ Syndrome?

Trading your Captain for a 38 year old 1st liner feels like every decision the Rangers have ever made that bit them in the ass.

But....St.Louis is awesome.

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02-24-2014, 11:42 AM
  #193
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That's true, unless management already decided at that point in time they knew how much they thought Callahan had left and decided 3 years was it for them. I'd say that was an underestimate all things considered now, but certainly not out of the question.

From the get go this hasn't looked like a deal was in any way trying to be reached reasonably from either side.
Sather doesn't really operate that way though. He's always trying to fit as much under the cap as he can, so he ends up having to give players shorter term deals to keep their AAV lower. That isn't necessarily a bad thing in many cases, but it isn't always a good thing either.

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Old
02-24-2014, 11:43 AM
  #194
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Boomer did mention this morning on his show that this has been in the works for 4 weeks now. So he could have come out with this sooner.

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02-24-2014, 11:43 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
I love MSL, but is anyone else worried that he'll have 10 good games here and succumb to Richards/Gomez/Drury/Redden/ Syndrome?

Trading your Captain for a 38 year old 1st liner feels like every decision the Rangers have ever made that bit them in the ass.

But....St.Louis is awesome.
unlikely...difference is MSL is not signed to a 7+ year contract like those other guys

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02-24-2014, 11:43 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
I love MSL, but is anyone else worried that he'll have 10 good games here and succumb to Richards/Gomez/Drury/Redden/ Syndrome?

Trading your Captain for a 38 year old 1st liner feels like every decision the Rangers have ever made that bit them in the ass.

But....St.Louis is awesome.
Considering he's scored 116 pts in his last 106 games I find it hard to believe he's at a magical threshold in which all his offense dries up in the next 10 games or so.

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02-24-2014, 11:45 AM
  #197
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Considering he's scored 116 pts in his last 106 games I find it hard to believe he's at a magical threshold in which all his offense dries up in the next 10 games or so.
Agreed. It's in the 15-25 game mark, IMO.

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02-24-2014, 11:46 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Giving Callahan a 3 year deal was a garbage move, which has only been compounded by acquiring more players with contracts running out this summer.

A 5 or 6 year deal at the age of 26 would have taken Callahan to a point where a better decision could have been made about how much more he has left.
Exactly. But now we're entrusting the same guy who created this ****** situation to resolve it? Good luck.

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02-24-2014, 11:47 AM
  #199
Ail
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MSL isn't 13 y/o. Sometimes things just go south in a relationship.

I am 100% sure that if MSL is getting traded it's because he and the org had a fall out. And it's not something that happend overnight. MSL has been rumored to be available several times. You never know what it is about, but Lecavaliers buyout for example could have played a part. In a situation like this, the not getting picked part is what bursts the bubble. Not a lone reason.
I agree completely. I'm still skeptical however until the official confirmed trade happens. I feel like this is type of trade that could easily fall though on a whim.

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02-24-2014, 11:48 AM
  #200
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That's possible, but if MSL retires after next year for whatever reason, then they would be losing a skilled all-around 28 year old for a year and a half of St Louis + the ability to sign someone else whose own team didn't think was good enough to sign themselves?

I'd prefer some younger talent, although MSL would be a great return. I am still iffy on where the grit and size is going to ft in this line-up. Nash. Kreider. No one else? And I wouldn't consider Nash physical AT ALL.
"Young talent" is just such a vague word.

It's definitely not a given that we are better of in 5 years by getting a low percentage lottery tickets as opposed to getting better short term. If we play well, out other pieces get more value. Our young players on the roster develops more. Etc.

There is a destinct risk that we would end up trading Cally for Enver Lisin II. There is ONLY downside with that deal.

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