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Rumor Thread 3.0: Gagner fit for a King?

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Old
02-24-2014, 12:46 PM
  #776
LTIR
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
With Letang and Maata, do they need another puck mover like Niskanen? Keep in mind that Shero is in love with Orpik and will likely re-sign him and I don't think Martin's deal is up yet...that's 4 top 4 d-men already, so Niskanen simply may not want to re-sign there if he wants to expand his role and cash in on a big contract sometime in the future.
Niskanen is a much more polished version of Maata and had been given plenty of opportunities to "expand" his role with the club. Letang is an offensive Dman, Niskanen is a puckmove. Both get the points but play a different game. If it were the Oilers I would buy your argument.. PIT I think will want to remain a contender year after year and try to lock up its best players.
I dont know about the love for Orpik but if true then PIT will be regretting this in near future.

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02-24-2014, 12:46 PM
  #777
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Hate to say it, but Letang may have some pretty serious health issues. I don't think Pittsburgh will make any moves in respect to their defense until they have some clarity with Letang.

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02-24-2014, 01:03 PM
  #778
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Speculation from Morrison and Maclean on Sam Gagner

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02-24-2014, 01:47 PM
  #779
tv14
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Nashville, LA and NJ as possible destinations according to them. Id look for:

LA - King, prospect
Nashville- Wilson, 2nd
NJ- I don't even know lol

I wonder if a team would take a Gagner + Hemsky package. Could be a one-stop shop for them to instantly inject offense into their line-up and they will be cheap asset wise compared to the bigger names available.

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02-24-2014, 01:53 PM
  #780
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i dont think sam will get traded, i did before but i dont any more, not until they have a legit replacement for him

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02-24-2014, 01:54 PM
  #781
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or if he is packaged in a deal for a top defenceman, again something that would have to happen in the offseason not before next thursday

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02-24-2014, 02:07 PM
  #782
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or if he is packaged in a deal for a top defenceman, again something that would have to happen in the offseason not before next wednesday.
Fixed for you. TDD is Wednesday.

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02-24-2014, 02:08 PM
  #783
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Originally Posted by tv14 View Post
Nashville, LA and NJ as possible destinations according to them. Id look for:

LA - King, prospect
Nashville- Wilson, 2nd
NJ- I don't even know lol

I wonder if a team would take a Gagner + Hemsky package. Could be a one-stop shop for them to instantly inject offense into their line-up and they will be cheap asset wise compared to the bigger names available.
Only 2 targets I want from NJ is Larsson or Henrique. What we would have to add to Gagner is the kicker.

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02-24-2014, 02:11 PM
  #784
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Only 2 targets I want from NJ is Larsson or Henrique. What we would have to add to Gagner is the kicker.
A Henrique for Gagner swap might work.

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02-24-2014, 02:22 PM
  #785
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A Henrique for Gagner swap might work.
I think so too.

Gagner is more offensively talented. Henrique is a better two way player who produced great in his first season, but has faltered since. Maybe add a fringe prospect or 2nd/3rd.

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02-24-2014, 02:28 PM
  #786
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Weird that Henrique's production tailed off when he didn't get to play with Kovulchuk and Parise anymore.

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02-24-2014, 02:31 PM
  #787
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Weird that Henrique's production tailed off when he didn't get to play with Kovulchuk and Parise anymore.
im with you i have argued on here to the moon and back about how henrique is an inferior player to gagner. he is a points sponge.

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02-24-2014, 02:33 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Weird that Henrique's production tailed off when he didn't get to play with Kovulchuk and Parise anymore.
He could be adequate though with out weapons and could regain his chemistry with Hall. Maybe Gagner is a sponge and we just don't know it yet?

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02-24-2014, 02:40 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by tv14 View Post
He could be adequate though with out weapons and could regain his chemistry with Hall. Maybe Gagner is a sponge and we just don't know it yet?
Except Gagner has produced with everybody he's ever played with, so we can rule that out...

I'll admit, if the trade was Gagner for Henrique straight up I'd probably do it, but I think Henrique is over rated.

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02-24-2014, 02:47 PM
  #790
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Seems like a very lateral move

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02-24-2014, 02:47 PM
  #791
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This is a crappy situation where we are going to lose this trade. In two years, people will ask why we traded him, but he simply doesnt fit into the team we built around him.

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02-24-2014, 02:49 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by BowDangles View Post
If anything was to go down, I expect it to happen around noon. For some reason this year, Edmonton seems to release stuff around lunch time.

I'd expect they wait until the trade deadline to get full value for him though, unless they are worried about having to deal too many people in one day...

Right now I would assume the following is on the outs by the TDD:

Gagner
Hemsky
N Schultz
possibly Smyth
R Jones
and Belov if anyone will take him.
I'm thinking Hemmer will be re-signed by MacT. Eakins loves the guy and we need vets. I think Hemmer has also been well liked by MacT over the years. I see value in Hemmer as a third line guy that can move up as required. Great teammate also. IMO, it would take a pretty enticing piece to move him by the 5th...other wise the Oilers keep him. That's just my gut feeling.

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02-24-2014, 02:49 PM
  #793
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Gagner is a points sponge. If Gagner gets moved and ends up a third liner somewhere, like say NJ... His point production is going to crash hard.

Gagner has good offensive instincts but even in a second line role needs other offensive minded/creative forwards to succeed.

I truly believe Gagner's points have been inflated by Edmontons offensive minded system, line mates, and his own offense only style of play.

Its funny. I think it was under Renny where he had a solid defensive season and impressed me but all anyone would complain about was how he wasn't producing enough offense to be considered a #2.

While somewhat true I would appreciate his game a lot more if he went back to scoring less and playing better.

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02-24-2014, 02:53 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Gagner is a points sponge. If Gagner gets moved and ends up a third liner somewhere, like say NJ... His point production is going to crash hard.

Gagner has good offensive instincts but even in a second line role needs other offensive minded/creative forwards to succeed.

I truly believe Gagner's points have been inflated by Edmontons offensive minded system, line mates, and his own offense only style of play.

Its funny. I think it was under Renny where he had a solid defensive season and impressed me but all anyone would complain about was how he wasn't producing enough offense to be considered a #2.

While somewhat true I would appreciate his game a lot more if he went back to scoring less and playing better.
except for the fact the most points he ever scored was playing with robert nilson and cogliano

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Old
02-24-2014, 02:58 PM
  #795
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Gagner isn't a points sponge. He's probably driving a lot of guys points up when he plays with them (see; Robert Nilsson, Andrew Cogliano, Magnus Paajaarvi, Linus Omark, Dustin Penner, etc...)

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02-24-2014, 03:00 PM
  #796
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Originally Posted by CornKicker View Post
im with you i have argued on here to the moon and back about how henrique is an inferior player to gagner. he is a points sponge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Except Gagner has produced with everybody he's ever played with, so we can rule that out...

I'll admit, if the trade was Gagner for Henrique straight up I'd probably do it, but I think Henrique is over rated.
"Sponge" Henrique has a 0.46 ppg this, "non-sponge" Gagner has a ppg of 0.51 this year. Over an 82 game season thats a whopping 4 more points for Gagner. Even taking their career average ppg, and applying it to an 82 game season, Gagner scores only 6 more points. Now look at the offences both play for, and I don't think its fair to call one a sponge, and one not.

Plus I dont think we should be looking for the highest scoring 2nd line centre possible. This is a position that we can fill with someone with a solid 2-way game and sacrifice a little bit offensively as we have enough offensive players around him to make up for it.

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02-24-2014, 03:01 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by camboy View Post
I'm thinking Hemmer will be re-signed by MacT. Eakins loves the guy and we need vets. I think Hemmer has also been well liked by MacT over the years. I see value in Hemmer as a third line guy that can move up as required. Great teammate also. IMO, it would take a pretty enticing piece to move him by the 5th...other wise the Oilers keep him. That's just my gut feeling.
Why do people just assume Hemsky will want to resign here?

He's not going to play in the top six here, the organization has to make a commitment to Yakupov and stick with it.

He's not going to make the playoffs here and he's wasted most of his prime years.

He hasn't played in a single meaningful game in an Oilers uniform in like six years. We saw what he did at the Olympics when the game's actually meant something ... for his own sake he needs to get the hell outta here and fast.

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Old
02-24-2014, 03:08 PM
  #798
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except for the fact the most points he ever scored was playing with robert nilson and cogliano
Are you arguing for me or against me?

Nilson and Cogliano were very much considered one dimensional offensive minded forwards. Nothing on who he plays with now of course but still players cut from the same cloth.

Sheltered minutes, long scoreless droughts, spotty defensive play, moments of high end offensive production in an offensive system...

I think you should ask yourself. Who. Of all the players Gagner has played with. Has improved with Gagner as a line mate. Nilson... sure. Cogliano... right now Cogliano is actually looking a bit better than Gagner.

Penner? Hemsky, Hall, Perron, Yak, Eberle, Cogliano...

I am not about to go back and find his every linemate and how they did but just those names there I put him on the low end of talent/skill that play at least as good without him as with him.

I don't think we will see the true Gagner until he is gone. If he persists in his one dimensional game we surely will not miss him.

Don't think it is going to be as obvious as Dub when he left. But I think we will see some critical analysis of his play from his next coach... if we do indeed move him.

EDIT: Was he centering MP and Omark? I didn't remember that. If so that is a good argument. Although still very much in the offensive minded only camp.

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02-24-2014, 03:11 PM
  #799
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One thing that I think is overrated about the Oilers in general is their offensive abilities.

Even the media likes to point out the Oilers are offensively strong and it's the defense that needs help.

Well the truth is they are NOT that good offensively... it's just that they are worse defensively.

They were 20th in offense 2 seasons ago, they were 18th in offense last season and this year they are down to 20th in offense again.

They are essentially a BAD defensive team and a mediocre offensive team.

Yes they have slightly more upside potentially offensively... but if they trade pieces away like Yak/Eberle (and yes even Gagner)... they DO NOT have enough depth to be better than mediocre offensively.


I think that's actually one of the main problems with this team... not just that they are defensively bad but that they don't have enough offensive firepower to overcome those deficiencies in their own end.

I think better defense would make the offense perform better as well but obviously if they remove solid offensive pieces they are creating a void there as well... it's not as easy a fix as some seem to feel (again especially outside media viewpoints who have too much of a black/white view on what ails this team).

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Old
02-24-2014, 03:12 PM
  #800
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Sam's a good player. He will do well/OK elsewhere just like Cogliano has, this just isn't a great fit for him here.

When we drafted so many small-ish/skill first players it was likely we were simply going to have to trade some of them, and that's basically where we are at now.

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