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IIHF World Championship Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

Crosby a clutch player?

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Old
02-24-2014, 12:07 PM
  #51
canuck2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Nope. 1st goal was a fluke and a very stoppable shot from Miller, he saves that 99 out of 100 times. 2nd goal was a bad giveaway by the only non-NHL player on Sweden. That doesn't make Crosby clutch. If he was clutch he would have scored vs Boston when his helmet got knocked off in overtime. He played much better in that OT than the Gold Medal game but couldn't deliver. THAT would have been clutch. These 2 occasions he got lucky or very favorable breaks. Lebron sealing a 2 point lead with a 3 pointer with 0.1 seconds is clutch. Crosby is not even close with those plays.
I take it you're not a Crosby fan. Like him or not he played tremendous hockey in the final two games in Sochi.

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02-24-2014, 12:09 PM
  #52
Ilves Tampere
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Originally Posted by bullocks View Post
Only player that can shut down Crosby in "clutch" moments is Zetterberg

See: 08 and 09 finals.
This.

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02-24-2014, 12:15 PM
  #53
canuck2010
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Originally Posted by daver View Post
Why?
Because stats don't tell the most important part of the story. They don't tell you how the player fits into the team game and what he does on every shift. Rotisserie leagues are fantasy.

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02-24-2014, 12:37 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Crosby hasn't proven to be all that "clutch" in international tournaments, tending to show up in a game or two. His last few NHL Playoff performances haven't really been "clutch" either...but how much of that is on his coach and GM, and the realities of a capped league?

But...meh. I don't really buy into the concept of "clutch." I've seen too many stats that show it doesn't really exist, and given enough sample size the high stakes game production tends to resemble closely the regular game production.

Where Crosby might suffer is that his playstyle is perfect for the NHL, but doesn't seem to translate to International Play. Whether or not that's a negative is a matter of opinion. Clearly, I don't think that affects his status as an NHL player, but 20 years from now it's worth taking into account for his "overall global" status. He's one player where it may be worth ranking as NHL, and then ranking separately as all-time.
You're talking more about consistent production, as opposed to clutch production. The fact that Crosby has scored in both gold medal games (including the famous "Golden Goal" in 2010) pretty much says he is clutch.

Clutch is producing when the games matter, not scoring when your team is already leading 6-0 in a round robin game. So you can knock Crosby for not consistently scoring through the tournament, but when the medal is on the line? He's come through in both the 2010 and 2014 tournaments.

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02-24-2014, 12:43 PM
  #55
illpucks
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Originally Posted by RK 17 View Post
You only mentioned one player, do you even read what you post? Constant garbage being spewed about bar none the best player in the sport.
Sorry dude, thats the great 8. And your avatar is a picture of Sidney Crosby. You will obviously be more offended when negative but true comments are made about him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck2010 View Post
I take it you're not a Crosby fan. Like him or not he played tremendous hockey in the final two games in Sochi.
Yes, because 1 point in 2 games is absolutely tremendous for the 'best player'

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02-24-2014, 12:47 PM
  #56
Frank the Tank
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Nope. 1st goal was a fluke and a very stoppable shot from Miller, he saves that 99 out of 100 times. 2nd goal was a bad giveaway by the only non-NHL player on Sweden. That doesn't make Crosby clutch. If he was clutch he would have scored vs Boston when his helmet got knocked off in overtime. He played much better in that OT than the Gold Medal game but couldn't deliver. THAT would have been clutch. These 2 occasions he got lucky or very favorable breaks. Lebron sealing a 2 point lead with a 3 pointer with 0.1 seconds is clutch. Crosby is not even close with those plays.
Except Miller himself has mentioned he read the golden goal play wrong and went for the ill-advised poke-check because Crosby's ability to go backhand was in his head:

Quote:
Ryan Miller: "There's a lot of times where he turns and shoots; there's other times where he knows he's got room and comes to the net. I thought this would be one of those times where he comes to the net."

Sidney Crosby: "I just thought, 'I've got to shoot it.' Because if I take it to the net and for some reason I either have the forward come down and hit the puck or if the goalie cuts the angle and I don't get a good shot off, then I'm going to be kicking myself for not. When you're in that spot in overtime, you've got to take the shot. It wasn't a hard, hard shot, but I got it away pretty quick. I don't think I even looked at the net. I knew where [Miller] was, but where I got the pass, I think I was right by the dot and I kind of knew the net was there and just tried to get it away quick."

Ryan Miller: "I wasn't going to give him a chance to use that great backhand he's got."

Ron Wilson: "I don't know what Ryan was thinking, starting to go with a poke-check on the puck and he's still 20 feet away. I didn't ever even want to ask Ryan, 'What were you thinking? If you go down in your butterfly, you've smothered it.'"

Sidney Crosby: "The goalie goes down and basically, just the light coming on. I don't know if it's stuck in his pads or ... Right at that split second, it's not like you see it the whole way going in the corner. You lose sight of it, then the light came on and you see everyone."

Ryan Miller: "Mistake on my part. It sucks."
http://espn.go.com/olympics/winter/2...old-medal-game

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02-24-2014, 12:48 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
absolutely tremendous for the 'best player'
I like how you put it in quotes, like there is any doubt that he is the best player.

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02-24-2014, 12:51 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Beau Knows View Post
I like how you put it in quotes, like there is any doubt that he is the best player.
He was nowhere near the best player in this tournament or nowhere near the best player on his team. Of course there is doubt, as a best player with out quotes is the best player in every situation.

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02-24-2014, 12:56 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
He was nowhere near the best player in this tournament or nowhere near the best player on his team. Of course there is doubt, as a best player with out quotes is the best player in every situation.
That's not true at all. Gretzky didn't win the Conn Smythe every time he won the Cup, and he was clearly the best player on the planet. Lemieux wasn't the best player every season in the 90s or the best player in every post-season, yet he was the games best player. Crosby is the clear cut best player in the world.

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02-24-2014, 12:58 PM
  #60
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Id think consistency goes a long way in one being considered clutch. Just because you score a big goal or get a big hit or make a shot every now and then in a big moment doesn't mean you're clutch. Consistently doing it in big moment after big moment is where you become clutch. Aka Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Derek Jeter. Even when they've been eliminated in the playoffs they had a huge impact.

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02-24-2014, 01:12 PM
  #61
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People that say the "golden goal" was nothing special don't know anything about hockey. Watch it again, brilliant goal by Crosby that he created out of a nothing play. Crosby willed the puck into the zone and didn't give up on it. He saw that the U.S. defense was being passive, so he chipped the puck to Iginla and instantly headed to the front of net and called for it. He shot the puck right away after directing it slightly to be in a better shooting position. Caught Miller by complete surprise.

Not every great goal is a perfect shot off the crossbar. In fact the goal is even more brilliant because it was scored in a situation where almost every other player would have just seen as routine and nothing would have come of it.

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02-24-2014, 01:16 PM
  #62
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It's a rough time for Crosby haters.

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02-24-2014, 01:52 PM
  #63
Stad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Sorry dude, thats the great 8. And your avatar is a picture of Sidney Crosby. You will obviously be more offended when negative but true comments are made about him.



Yes, because 1 point in 2 games is absolutely tremendous for the 'best player'
And your name is illpucks, someone who hates Crosby and never gives him credit for anything, i think everyone on this forum knows this.

Crosby's playoff numbers seem to speak for themselves, so yes i'd say he is clutch.

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02-24-2014, 02:05 PM
  #64
canuck2010
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
He was nowhere near the best player in this tournament or nowhere near the best player on his team. Of course there is doubt, as a best player with out quotes is the best player in every situation.
I think Toews was our best player overall. I think you could lump Doughty and Weber in there as well but Crosby came to play the last two games for sure.

And in your opinion the best players in the tournament were?

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02-24-2014, 02:12 PM
  #65
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I can't see how people would say he isn't. All the complaints about Ovechkin (and Malkin) not delivering and scoring a big goal in the Olympics and then all of the sudden Crosby does score a goal that pretty much puts the game to bed and he still gets criticized because he didn't light it up against Austria and Norway? Ask Phil Kessel if he'd exchange his 8 Olympic points for 3 and a gold medal.

Gretzky used to dominate these tournaments and then score in the clutch as well. However Crosby isn't Gretzky but he's had a tremendous amount of pressure and has ensured his team won gold both times. It is never too late to get your name on the scoresheet. Right now the only number that matters is that he's a perfect 2/2 in the Olympics. And he's part of it. I'd call that clutch.

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02-24-2014, 02:14 PM
  #66
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I think Doughty was Canada's best player by a mile. Just to think that Voynov was Russia's worst...

Crosby delivers when it matters. Sometimes.

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02-24-2014, 02:15 PM
  #67
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Sorry but that first goal by toews put the game to bed. Sweden wasn't scoring nor getting through that wall of a defense

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02-24-2014, 02:20 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by DrunkKaner88 View Post
Sorry but that first goal by toews put the game to bed. Sweden wasn't scoring nor getting through that wall of a defense
Toews' goal ended up being the winner, but the 2nd goal was still important at the time. Canada didn't know for sure that they were going to get a shutout. Sweden could have got a lucky break, a powerplay goal or simply made 1 great play and capitalized. Crosby's goal was clutch because it was important at the time. Even the Kunitz goal was a nice insurance goal.

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02-24-2014, 02:22 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck2010 View Post
Because stats don't tell the most important part of the story. They don't tell you how the player fits into the team game and what he does on every shift. Rotisserie leagues are fantasy.
Right, because Crosby is such a terrible team player

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02-24-2014, 02:29 PM
  #70
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Crosby was terrific the entire tournament. Every time I get to watch him play I'm amazed at the things he does. He is a joy to watch.

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02-24-2014, 02:41 PM
  #71
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That illpucks guy is just...

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02-24-2014, 02:53 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
Sorry dude, thats the great 8.And your avatar is a picture of Sidney Crosby. You will obviously be more offended when negative but true comments are made about him.



Yes, because 1 point in 2 games is absolutely tremendous for the 'best player'
Quote:
Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
He was nowhere near the best player in this tournament or nowhere near the best player on his team. Of course there is doubt, as a best player with out quotes is the best player in every situation.
Ovechkin stats at Sochi: 5 games, 1 goal and 2 points

So Crosby isn't the best player because he didn't produce in Sochi, though Ovi is the best when he produced even less than Crosby? Okay. Then again, I shouldn't be surprised of this double standard, you do this crap all the time.

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02-24-2014, 03:06 PM
  #73
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Don't you know if you keep feeding something it'll keep on coming back?

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02-24-2014, 04:09 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by illpucks View Post
He was nowhere near the best player in this tournament or nowhere near the best player on his team. Of course there is doubt, as a best player with out quotes is the best player in every situation.
just like "the great 8", right? best player in every situation...


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02-24-2014, 04:15 PM
  #75
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Clutch would mean scoring the big goal in any game that matters. Doesn't have to be just the gold game.

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