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Under the radar "deadline makeover"

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Old
02-19-2014, 12:36 PM
  #26
Joe T Choker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neilio View Post
I think you guys should pick up Hemsky. He needs a fresh start with a team that needs a player like him in the top 6.
I doubt it would even cost that much. I'm surprised the Preds haven't tried before honestly.
Also I think he'd be resign-able at a reasonable rate.
Downward Trend, I think I'd rather pass on Hemsky, at this point in time of his career.

Year Team GP G A P +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG S S%
2009-2010 Oilers 22 7 15 22 7 8 3 0 0 57 12.3
2010-2011 Oilers 47 14 28 42 3 18 1 1 1 100 14.0
2011-2012 Oilers 69 10 26 36 -13 43 1 0 1 137 7.3
2012-2013 Oilers 38 9 11 20 -6 16 5 0 1 82 11.0
2013-2014 Oilers 52 7 17 24 -11 20 1 0 1 87 8.0

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Old
02-19-2014, 02:10 PM
  #27
Neilio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
Downward Trend, I think I'd rather pass on Hemsky, at this point in time of his career.

Year Team GP G A P +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG S S%
2009-2010 Oilers 22 7 15 22 7 8 3 0 0 57 12.3
2010-2011 Oilers 47 14 28 42 3 18 1 1 1 100 14.0
2011-2012 Oilers 69 10 26 36 -13 43 1 0 1 137 7.3
2012-2013 Oilers 38 9 11 20 -6 16 5 0 1 82 11.0
2013-2014 Oilers 52 7 17 24 -11 20 1 0 1 87 8.0

Injuries have been an issue in the past, but he's been relatively healthy the past couple of years. He's only just turned 30. So there is quite a bit of tread left on that tire. No offense, but I don't see how Nashville can turn up their nose at a proven scorer. He's scoring .5 PPG from the third line.

There is a lot more to this player than stats quite honestly. You would have to take into account how poorly the Oilers have been run, first of all. Coaching carousel, tanking, handing rookies ice-time without earning it...you name it. We've done just about everything wrong.

Hemsky has been a great soldier through all this mess. Not complaining, adjusting his game to suit whatever the coach-du-jour wants, which invariably is the least beneficial for Hemsky. He's on a line with grinders, playing the toughest competition with defensive zone starts, and still getting the job done. He's always been an excellent play-maker, and PP stalwart. His puck skills are elite. He really ups his game in the playoffs. Look, he just scored the only two goals for the Czechs against the US in the olympics. 3G and 1A in 5 games.

He's a good team guy and would add some sorely needed secondary scoring and power play punch to the Preds. At the cost of a mid draft pick or a prospect? Thats free money.




Skip to 4:47 for one of the goals of the year last season.

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Old
02-19-2014, 02:38 PM
  #28
triggrman
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We're giving Nystrom top winger minutes, I don't see how adding Hemsky would hurt.

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02-19-2014, 02:44 PM
  #29
Joe T Choker
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
We're giving Nystrom top winger minutes, I don't see how adding Hemsky would hurt.
Oh, I agree, I just don't want to give up anything to get him.

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Old
02-19-2014, 03:00 PM
  #30
Neilio
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
Oh, I agree, I just don't want to give up anything to get him.
What do you consider anything?
A draft pick that realistically has about a 10-20% chance to even make it to the NHL? A mid level prospect that may or may not make it within 4 years?
For a top 6 skill guy who is still likely got a couple of three year contracts left in him. Even if he's not a 70+ point guy anymore, on a team that will give him the ice-time, he should be good for 40-50.
I'd make that deal any day of the week if I were you. He makes the other players around him better. Improves the PP. Clutch scorer.

Also, you make that deal first, and make sure the teams that you're trying to catch don't snag him. Like Phoenix.

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Old
02-19-2014, 03:05 PM
  #31
triggrman
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Trade Legwand and Beck for Stantsy, and a 2nd for Hemsky.

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Old
02-19-2014, 03:12 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
We're giving Nystrom top winger minutes, I don't see how adding Hemsky would hurt.
Agree, not like Bourque has done much in the top-6 either.

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Old
02-19-2014, 03:48 PM
  #33
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Nystrom is 8th among Fs in TOI - hardly skating top-line minutes. As for Bourque, lowest in TOI among the "regular" Fs, aside from Stalberg.

As for Hemsky, guy is 30, hasn't scored more than 42 points in 5 years, and he's skating the same amount of minutes as Craig Smith, so minutes isn't the explanation for the poor output. Heck, he's sitting in Wilson/Cullen territory in scoring with an "uglier" contract.

Put another way, Hemsky is 2.5 years older than Stalberg with no reason to believe he'll be any more productive, other than he was from 04-08.

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02-19-2014, 04:16 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Trade Legwand and Beck for Stantsy, and a 2nd for Hemsky.
Give up assets for a player who probably won't be here after April?

Why does Colorado remove a valuable piece from a playoff run for a downgrade at center and an average prospect?

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Old
02-19-2014, 04:34 PM
  #35
Neilio
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Originally Posted by deanwormer View Post
Nystrom is 8th among Fs in TOI - hardly skating top-line minutes. As for Bourque, lowest in TOI among the "regular" Fs, aside from Stalberg.

As for Hemsky, guy is 30, hasn't scored more than 42 points in 5 years, and he's skating the same amount of minutes as Craig Smith, so minutes isn't the explanation for the poor output. Heck, he's sitting in Wilson/Cullen territory in scoring with an "uglier" contract.

Put another way, Hemsky is 2.5 years older than Stalberg with no reason to believe he'll be any more productive, other than he was from 04-08.
That's cherry picking the data. Going back the last five years, he was injured the first two, and recovering from shoulder surgery the third.
Still, in those first two injury years he scored 22 points in 22 games and 42 points in 47 games. Since then, he's taken the back seat to our shiny new toys, Eberle and Yakupov. So while you may look at the minutes he plays and think he's getting the ice-time, consider that he's on a line with Boyd Gordon and Matt Hendricks, who you should be familiar with. Starting most shifts in the defensive zone against top opposition. Those aren't quality minutes for putting up points. On the worst team in the league.

Regardless, over the last five years he's averaged .632 PPG, which is just over 50 points a year, pro rated. Even if you take only the last two years, a relatively healthy Hemsky still puts up .489 PPG from the third line, playing with grinders, against top lines.

So to put it this way, at 2.5 years older than Stalberg, Hemsky still puts up more points. Even at his lowest standard, he's going to score more. I'd argue that with a fresh start, he returns to around the .6 PPG mark, not quite as high as his career average of .732, but an improvement on his current pace. Stalberg on the other hand, hasn't proven that he's going to be more than a 30-40 point guy. If he hasn't made a breakthrough by now, he's not likely to. So I think a pretty good reason to believe that a guy can be productive, is if he's done it before.

As far as the contract goes, it expires at the end of the year and he's only owed another 1.475 for the remaining games. If he helps push you towards the playoffs, that's not even a consideration. But having said that, Edmonton will likely retain salary IF the return is right.

I think he's going to be the steal of the deadline for whoever gets him. All it costs is magic beans as well.

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Old
02-19-2014, 04:39 PM
  #36
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Hasn't Hemsky been on the trade block every year for what 2-3 years?? The Preds didn't want him then and hopefully they don't want him now..

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Old
02-19-2014, 11:10 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
Come on. As good as Forsberg is and as crazy as that trade was, Drouin was drafted at #3 just 8 months ago. Forsberg was drafted later and was falling down the draft list at the time. Also, Erat wasn't a UFA and was historically better than Legwand. Not cheer for Forsberg ever?
nope, erat still had a year on his deal. And Forsberg was the number one Euro skater and fell bc teams couldn't promise him an nhl spot and he wasn't going the junior route. had nothing to do with talent.

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Old
02-20-2014, 01:57 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
nope, erat still had a year on his deal. And Forsberg was the number one Euro skater and fell bc teams couldn't promise him an nhl spot and he wasn't going the junior route. had nothing to do with talent.
The teams that passed on him told you that?

What about the Washington scouts that voted unanimously to let Forseberg go as opposed to other prospects in their system?

I like FF and like the trade, but I think he's getting an unfair amount of expectations placed on him becuase we have no other forward prospects to latch onto. And, because his last name is Forseberg.

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Old
02-20-2014, 01:57 AM
  #39
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Sign stastny in the offseason.

Trade a 2nd or 3rd for hemsky.

I think hemsky would be a good pick up.

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02-20-2014, 02:04 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
nope, erat still had a year on his deal. And Forsberg was the number one Euro skater and fell bc teams couldn't promise him an nhl spot and he wasn't going the junior route. had nothing to do with talent.
Seems to me he fell due to teams wanting to take defensemen. Look at the 2012 nhl draft.
1 Nail Yakupov (LW)
2 Ryan Murray (D)
3 Alex Galchenyuk (C)
4 Griffin Reinhart (D)
5 Morgan Rielly (D)
6 Hampus Lindholm (D)
7 Mathew Dumba (D)
8 Derrick Pouliot (D)
9 Jacob Trouba (D)
10 Slater Koekkoek (D)
11 Filip Forsberg (RW)

Similar to how we got the #1 North American Skater in the 2013 nhl draft. Top three wanted offensive pieces. So we picked him at #4.

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02-20-2014, 02:07 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Neilio View Post
That's cherry picking the data. Going back the last five years, he was injured the first two, and recovering from shoulder surgery the third.
Still, in those first two injury years he scored 22 points in 22 games and 42 points in 47 games. Since then, he's taken the back seat to our shiny new toys, Eberle and Yakupov. So while you may look at the minutes he plays and think he's getting the ice-time, consider that he's on a line with Boyd Gordon and Matt Hendricks, who you should be familiar with. Starting most shifts in the defensive zone against top opposition. Those aren't quality minutes for putting up points. On the worst team in the league.

Regardless, over the last five years he's averaged .632 PPG, which is just over 50 points a year, pro rated. Even if you take only the last two years, a relatively healthy Hemsky still puts up .489 PPG from the third line, playing with grinders, against top lines.

So to put it this way, at 2.5 years older than Stalberg, Hemsky still puts up more points. Even at his lowest standard, he's going to score more. I'd argue that with a fresh start, he returns to around the .6 PPG mark, not quite as high as his career average of .732, but an improvement on his current pace. Stalberg on the other hand, hasn't proven that he's going to be more than a 30-40 point guy. If he hasn't made a breakthrough by now, he's not likely to. So I think a pretty good reason to believe that a guy can be productive, is if he's done it before.

As far as the contract goes, it expires at the end of the year and he's only owed another 1.475 for the remaining games. If he helps push you towards the playoffs, that's not even a consideration. But having said that, Edmonton will likely retain salary IF the return is right.

I think he's going to be the steal of the deadline for whoever gets him. All it costs is magic beans as well.
Has Hemsky and Gagner ever played together in years past?

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02-20-2014, 07:48 AM
  #42
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Is Gagner a free agent at the end of next season or a RFA?

Edit: he has 2 additional years at 5 million per after this season.

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Old
02-20-2014, 08:58 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
Seems to me he fell due to teams wanting to take defensemen. Look at the 2012 nhl draft.
1 Nail Yakupov (LW)
2 Ryan Murray (D)
3 Alex Galchenyuk (C)
4 Griffin Reinhart (D)
5 Morgan Rielly (D)
6 Hampus Lindholm (D)
7 Mathew Dumba (D)
8 Derrick Pouliot (D)
9 Jacob Trouba (D)
10 Slater Koekkoek (D)
11 Filip Forsberg (RW)

Similar to how we got the #1 North American Skater in the 2013 nhl draft. Top three wanted offensive pieces. So we picked him at #4.
This. And given the number of defensemen in that list who are already kicking butt and doing incredibly well, it looks like GMs had good reason to go that route. (Heck, three of 'em - Murray, Lindholm, Trouba - are regularly popping up in Calder discussions...)

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Old
02-20-2014, 12:36 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by thecloser View Post
Sign stastny in the offseason.

Trade a 2nd or 3rd for hemsky.

I think hemsky would be a good pick up.
at $5mil per for a couple more years? For a guy over the past 5 years that hasn't put up better numbers than guys we regularly complain are underachieving for less cash? Take the $5mil, re-sign Spals instead of Leggy, and take the total cash saved and give it to someone more reliable and still producing. (vanek, Stastny, whoever)

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Old
02-20-2014, 01:15 PM
  #45
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Yeah...I want nothing to do with Hemsky. Gagner...if we give next to nothing...I'd consider.

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Old
02-24-2014, 09:37 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
The teams that passed on him told you that?

What about the Washington scouts that voted unanimously to let Forseberg go as opposed to other prospects in their system?

I like FF and like the trade, but I think he's getting an unfair amount of expectations placed on him becuase we have no other forward prospects to latch onto. And, because his last name is Forseberg.
I'm not sure that this is true.

In any case, Washington drafted him thinking he was a center, so I'm not sure how much one can actually credit teh Washington scouting staff at this point.

Forsberg is a very talented player. There's a pretty good reason he has expectations that he does, and it has very little to do with his last name. He's a big forward, with great hockey sense, slick hands, good skating and a great shot. He lead the Swedish team in goals, assists and points and was the friggin captain FFS.

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Old
02-24-2014, 10:14 AM
  #47
Joe T Choker
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Originally Posted by predshabs View Post
Seems to me he fell due to teams wanting to take defensemen. Look at the 2012 nhl draft.
1 Nail Yakupov (LW)
2 Ryan Murray (D)
3 Alex Galchenyuk (C)
4 Griffin Reinhart (D)
5 Morgan Rielly (D)
6 Hampus Lindholm (D)
7 Mathew Dumba (D)
8 Derrick Pouliot (D)
9 Jacob Trouba (D)
10 Slater Koekkoek (D)
11 Filip Forsberg (RW)

Similar to how we got the #1 North American Skater in the 2013 nhl draft. Top three wanted offensive pieces. So we picked him at #4.
Yup, those Defensemen definitely graded higher than Forsberg did at the time, wow.

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Old
02-24-2014, 11:16 AM
  #48
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After 12 Eastern and no movement after the freeze kinda surprised...

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Old
02-25-2014, 01:56 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by PFL615 View Post
Anything is possible. Who would have agreed that Martin Erat would have got the return he did at the deadline.

Pirri is a solid player who has done his time and is NHL ready. He has the numbers and AHL scoring title to prove it.
I am not sure why Chicago is wanting to move him. Anyone have any idea?
Q isn't fond of his game

Q seems to expect young forwards to play responsible D and fill any role needed (Saad and Shaw for example have played variety of roles/situations)

Pirri is basically one dimensional in Q's eyes and he doesn't like that at center. Despite the improvement from Pirri defensively in minors he just cant get trust of Q

And when he does make a mistake Q nails him to bench

Simply put his future is bleak with Hawks at this point with Q behind bench and TT expected to make leap to North America

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Old
02-25-2014, 07:06 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Q isn't fond of his game

Q seems to expect young forwards to play responsible D and fill any role needed (Saad and Shaw for example have played variety of roles/situations)

Pirri is basically one dimensional in Q's eyes and he doesn't like that at center. Despite the improvement from Pirri defensively in minors he just cant get trust of Q

And when he does make a mistake Q nails him to bench

Simply put his future is bleak with Hawks at this point with Q behind bench and TT expected to make leap to North America
Replace Q with Trotz in this post and you had to so no thanks. Same situation with Stalberg. How has that signing helped the Preds.

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