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Proposal Thread: Trying It Again

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Old
02-27-2014, 12:47 AM
  #776
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
You didn't actually just suggest we sign Fraser again did you? (He's not even in the NHL) Bolland wants to be paid like a quality 2nd liner, Thornton is close to retirement, etc. The only good fit there is McClement, but he's a 4th liner. Clifford should be more than that.

Edit: Lewis would be a good pickup, but he fills a different role


You mean aside from hitting, fighting, scoring, and defense?
1 more goal in 42 more games...

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02-27-2014, 12:48 AM
  #777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
You didn't actually just suggest we sign Fraser again did you? (He's not even in the NHL) Bolland wants to be paid like a quality 2nd liner, Thornton is close to retirement, etc. The only good fit there is McClement, but he's a 4th liner. Clifford should be more than that.

Edit: Lewis would be a good pickup, but he fills a different role


You mean aside from hitting, fighting, scoring, and defense?
Clifford =/= scoring, and he doesn't fight much either. Something like 60 PIM this year. I don't think he's the player you're trying to make him
out to be. I certainly wouldn't give up Gagner to get him and and a pick. There's a reason he's being shopped and guys like Lewis and Nolan are not.

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Old
02-27-2014, 12:57 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
You mean aside from hitting, fighting, scoring, and defense?
Clifford is no different than Eager was earlier in his career. In 06/07 as a 22 year old, Eager put up 11 points in 63 games while fighting 16 times. This year as a 23 year old, Clifford is on pace for 7 points in 72 games with say 10 points.

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Old
02-27-2014, 01:00 AM
  #779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Trevor Lewis
Jay Mcclement
Dave Bolland
Shawn Thorton
John Mitchell
Colin Fraser
Ryan Carter

Are all Free Agents this offseason. Most of better than Clifford. Some offer less grit, but make up for it in other aspects. Some will cost more (Bolland).

But none will cost Gagner.

Let Gagner play out the rest of the season (hes shown improvements that last couple games), raise his value back up to a respective level and deal him for a second liner with size

Not to mention a guy like Horak is probaly NHL ready next season, and will probaly be better than Clifford.
Colin Fraser? Costing us Gagner? More like taking Gagner and his $4.8 million cap hit off of our hands. Arcobello is a better bang for the buck than Gagner.

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Old
02-27-2014, 01:01 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
Clifford is no different than Eager was earlier in his career. In 06/07 as a 22 year old, Eager put up 11 points in 63 games while fighting 16 times. This year as a 23 year old, Clifford is on pace for 7 points in 72 games with say 10 points.
And we could use the version of Eager before he got here and he was on a Cup Championship team as was Clifford. Too bad that he ended up being a head case and has killed his NHL career.

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Old
02-27-2014, 01:11 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
And we could use the version of Eager before he got here and he was on a Cup Championship team as was Clifford. Too bad that he ended up being a head case and has killed his NHL career.
Head case as in concussions? Which Clifford already has a history of?

PS I'm not against trying to acquire Clifford, but considering we gave up a 3rd round pick for a starting goalie I wouldn't give much of value(late round pick, a la what was given/received for Mike Brown).

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Old
02-27-2014, 01:36 AM
  #782
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Outright denying the story is the right thing to do when this type of news leaks.

If they admit it, he loses trade value and the Canucks are far less likely to trade him. Look at the Luongo nightmare.

Also, RE: The Fourth Period. I believe they do a lot of good rumor management (denying what's out there) but throw a lot at the wall to fill their website. Their "this player linked to these teams" thing is pretty silly.

I think it would be a mistake to trade Jordan Eberle to Philadelphia for anything they would offer. You need scoring, and it's pretty clear IMO that Hall, RNH, Eberle and Perron are the four guys that are, for better or worse, going to be doing it for the next few years here.


Last edited by SK13: 02-27-2014 at 01:42 AM.
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Old
02-27-2014, 01:37 AM
  #783
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
Head case as in concussions? Which Clifford already has a history of?

PS I'm not against trying to acquire Clifford, but considering we gave up a 3rd round pick for a starting goalie I wouldn't give much of value(late round pick, a la what was given/received for Mike Brown).
Head case as in Eager didn't want to play a physical game unless it was on his terms. Inconsistency, playing like he didn't give a ****, etc.

We gave up a 3rd rounder for another teams 3rd string goalie not their starter and an UFA to boot. Thing is that Scrivens has filled a spot for us admirably and needed to get away from the depth of LA to get a real chance, why can't the same be said of Clifford?

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Old
02-27-2014, 01:45 AM
  #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
Clifford is no different than Eager was earlier in his career. In 06/07 as a 22 year old, Eager put up 11 points in 63 games while fighting 16 times. This year as a 23 year old, Clifford is on pace for 7 points in 72 games with say 10 points.
That's a pretty good comparison I liked Eager a lot when he was younger and I like Clifford now, Eager never managed to make his brief flashes of skill appear with more frequency to add a consistent offensive component to his physical brand of hockey. Many players while highly similair at different points of their career can diverge and become significantly better or worse players. The most noticeable difference I can see between the two is Eager was a better skater and better off the rush where Clifford seems to be a bit better defensively and his instincts are a bit better for being in the right position to collect rebounds/garbage goals.

I think most of us can agree at this point Clifford is very unlikely to have 2nd line upside his outer-marker should be a Chris Neil like career. Dropping a 6th overall pick (Gagner) for Chris Neil even in his prime would seem like stupid asset management; I think we need more potential upside in a deal for Gagner, despite Gagners bad contract what the two players will contribute if they pan out in their new cities is miles apart.

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02-27-2014, 01:49 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Head case as in Eager didn't want to play a physical game unless it was on his terms. Inconsistency, playing like he didn't give a ****, etc.

We gave up a 3rd rounder for another teams 3rd string goalie not their starter and an UFA to boot. Thing is that Scrivens has filled a spot for us admirably and needed to get away from the depth of LA to get a real chance, why can't the same be said of Clifford?
Not saying he can't, it's all dependent on price. Moving your second line center for a return that centers on a player who hasn't proven anything outside of being a fourth liner is horrible asset management. Especially considering there's not a good replacement for Gagner within the organization.

Like I said, I'm not against trying to acquire him, but it's gotta be for a much lower price.

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Old
02-27-2014, 01:54 AM
  #786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarDownBobo View Post
Not saying he can't, it's all dependent on price. Moving your second line center for a return that centers on a player who hasn't proven anything outside of being a fourth liner is horrible asset management. Especially considering there's not a good replacement for Gagner within the organization.

Like I said, I'm not against trying to acquire him, but it's gotta be for a much lower price.
Gagner is not a good 2C for this team so let's not pretend that we are dealing a 2C on a winning team here just for a moment. Arcobello can fill the spot until the end of the season or possibly longer if need be. I'm not interested in having Gagner return next season, are you?

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Old
02-27-2014, 02:00 AM
  #787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Gagner is not a good 2C for this team so let's not pretend that we are dealing a 2C on a winning team here just for a moment. Arcobello can fill the spot until the end of the season or possibly longer if need be. I'm not interested in having Gagner return next season, are you?
Whether he's a fit on this team or not doesn't null the fact that he is a 2C. I would prefer to have someone else in that slot next season yes, but I sure as hell wouldn't give away Gagner for peanuts. Especially considering his play has been picking up since he's removed his full shield.

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02-27-2014, 02:31 AM
  #788
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Really hope Mac-T takes a look at Shawn Matthias could probably get him for a low end prospect and late pick. He had a decent season last year scoring 21 points in 48 games. Big guy can play all three forward positions, he is durable and coming into his prime and could have some untapped offensive upside if he plays with some of our talented wingers.

If you move gagner bring matthias in for cheap try him at 2C for the rest of the season, if he looks really out of place then drop him into the bottom 6 and look for a center in the off season.

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Old
02-27-2014, 03:57 AM
  #789
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I think Kesler ends up a Maple Leaf. Between the Nonis connection, the Leafs need for a C, and their young assets they could move. It seems to match up nicely with Kesler being traded there.

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02-27-2014, 04:04 AM
  #790
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
I think Kesler ends up a Maple Leaf. Between the Nonis connection, the Leafs need for a C, and their young assets they could move. It seems to match up nicely with Kesler being traded there.
Unless you consider that Kesler has a NTC and may not want to play for another hockey mad Canadian team/city.

The Leafs have even less cap room than the Canucks and sending young and likely cheap players the other way likely wouldnt make up the difference.

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02-27-2014, 04:11 AM
  #791
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Originally Posted by The Nuge View Post
You could also look at it as trading a redundant player (who I do like, and defend) for a younger, bigger, stronger, drastically more physical player, who's shown promise when given a more offensive role, and who outscored King last year (who everyone wants for some reason). Not to mention it wouldn't be a straight up deal.
Gagner is only redundant when there is another player who can fill his role. Oilers don't have a viable 2C option.

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02-27-2014, 04:12 AM
  #792
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Gagner is only redundant when there is another player who can fill his role. Oilers don't have a viable 2C option.
Gagner himself isnt a viable 2C option. So yes, he is indeed redundant.

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Old
02-27-2014, 04:17 AM
  #793
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Gagner himself isnt a viable 2C option. So yes, he is indeed redundant.
Okay, so trade him away for a 4th line winger and a prospect and play who there? Arcobello? Lander? CJ Stretch?

Gagner isn't exactly a pillar of 2 way play, but he's better than anything else we can slot in there.

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02-27-2014, 04:20 AM
  #794
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Okay, so trade him away for a 4th line winger and a prospect and play who there? Arcobello? Lander? CJ Stretch?
Any of the above will do for the last twenty games. You could trade for a more suitable replacement in the summer or sign some ufa or perhaps Sam Reinhart will be able to step in right away.

In any event Gagner isnt working and he isnt going to work going forward. If the team wants to progress, you need to start making the necessary changes. He likely wont be traded until summer if at all so you can rest easy.

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02-27-2014, 04:42 AM
  #795
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Any of the above will do for the last twenty games. You could trade for a more suitable replacement in the summer or sign some ufa or perhaps Sam Reinhart will be able to step in right away.

In any event Gagner isnt working and he isnt going to work going forward. If the team wants to progress, you need to start making the necessary changes. He likely wont be traded until summer if at all so you can rest easy.
That's not what I'm saying. I know Gagner isn't a fit on this team, I think its stupid to do a knee jerk trade and create a bigger hole though.

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Old
02-27-2014, 07:37 AM
  #796
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Gagner is not a good 2C for this team so let's not pretend that we are dealing a 2C on a winning team here just for a moment. Arcobello can fill the spot until the end of the season or possibly longer if need be. I'm not interested in having Gagner return next season, are you?
if the other option was clifford on the 4th line wing and arcobello as the 2nd line C, then yes, i'd *MUCH* rather have gagner back ... its not even close

clifford is a 4th liner who likely won't be in the league in a couple years

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02-27-2014, 07:39 AM
  #797
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Any of the above will do for the last twenty games. You could trade for a more suitable replacement in the summer or sign some ufa or perhaps Sam Reinhart will be able to step in right away.

In any event Gagner isnt working and he isnt going to work going forward. If the team wants to progress, you need to start making the necessary changes. He likely wont be traded until summer if at all so you can rest easy.
i'd be 100% behind trading gagner and signing a UFA #2 C in the off-season, except this years UFA crop is dreadful.... replacing gagner with reinhart is a downgrade next year, and is simply repeating the same mistakes this club has been making for almost a decade

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Old
02-27-2014, 08:04 AM
  #798
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I would honestly have no problem moving Eberle for Edler + Salary dump +, frankly that looks like a Great fit for the Oilers and the Nucks.

Maybe

To VAN: Eberle, Belov and Musil

To EDM: Edler, Hansen, Booth and a 2nd (or something like that)


Is the purpose of this deal to collect all the worst performing $4.25 million - $4.8 million cap hits in the league?

If that's what we're going for maybe we can use a less valuable chip than Jordan Eberle.

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Old
02-27-2014, 08:13 AM
  #799
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with the Marty StLouis to Rangers as the only suitor they would have to move out some salary. we should "do them a favor winkwink" and deal for brad richards. he is a cup winning vet (conn smythe) and 33 years old. 4-5 decent years left on him and it allows us to play him as a defensively responsible #1C and let RNH lessen his load for a bit. Richards cap hit is 6.6 so it would be 1.8 higher than what we are already paying gagner. It allows mact t to not have to worry about finding a #2C and let us draft Bennett/Draistl and ease them into the lineup instead of drafting a C and expecting them to play #2 mins right away.

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02-27-2014, 08:30 AM
  #800
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The rangers wouldn't move richards. That's one of the main reasons St.Louis would want to go to the NYR.

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