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The Flyers blew it by not selecting Maatta

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Old
02-26-2014, 08:14 AM
  #151
DrinkFightFlyers
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
If Morin won't be a major factor until age 23, he'll be doing it for someone else. The Flyers won't wait that long for a 1st round pick, they don't even like leaving them in the AHL for more than a handful of games.
Meh, I don't think that is the case. If you look at the guys the Flyers drafted in the first round, I don't think there was any type of rush to get the guys to the NHL, they just happened to be good enough. Maybe Sbisa was rushed a bit, but going back as far as Steve Downie (and probably further but I don't feel like looking that far) there is no one besides Sbisa that I can see who probably shouldn't have been in the NHL when they made their full-time debuts. Couturier was ready. JvR was ready. Laughton will likely be ready next year. Downie was ready (and he waited I think like three or four years so it is hard to say they didn't have the patience with him). Giroux was ready. Going back even further, Richards and Carter were ready and Pitkanen was probably ready.

So it isn't like they are rushing guys or simply can't wait for them that long. It is more like they are drafting well in the first round and their players are ready to make the jump in a year or two (or earlier).

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02-26-2014, 09:45 AM
  #152
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If you watched the WJC , you would see that maata and Hagg just have different games.

Maatta is making an impact at the nhl level right now. His season is very impressive.
I have seen both play. They do have different games. Hagg's is more ready for NA hockey at the same point in both players development.

I am not going to pretend I know what's between their ears or how much heart they have but I can look at both of them physically and their skill sets and tell you Hagg is more of what you look for in an NHL dman. He may end up being a bust but his measurables are better and he has just as much skill.

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02-26-2014, 09:49 AM
  #153
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I have seen both play. They do have different games. Hagg's is more ready for NA hockey at the same point in both players development.

I am not going to pretend I know what's between their ears or how much heart they have but I can look at both of them physically and their skill sets and tell you Hagg is more of what you look for in an NHL dman. He may end up being a bust but his measurables are better and he has just as much skill.
I don't see Hagg providing much in terms of offense. I see him as a fairly mobile physiscal defenseman who plays a game similar to brooks Orpik. Maatta is a guy who is going to be able to play the pp, same size , just as mobile, maybe not as physical but still very strong.

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02-26-2014, 11:15 AM
  #154
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The flyers never draft players like Olli Maatta. And that is what drives this fanbase crazy. We are a team that is in need of mobile defenders with puck skills and an offensive upside. Whereas the pens have those type of guys in spades in pouliot , maatta, despres, and letang. Morin won't be a major factor until he is 23-25, and hagg won't have the type of impact as maatta.
True it'll take some time for guys like Morin & Hagg to develop but don't forget the situation concerning the prospective dmen was a lot worse 2-3 seasons ago before the emergence of Oliver Lauridsen and then later with the drafting of Morin & Hagg. Takes a while to build a pipeline. I could see why Flyer fans could be frustrated with past decisions but I think they've realized the errors of their ways and this last draft at least showed they're committed to building that blue line going forward.

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02-26-2014, 11:44 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by DoobeeDoobeeDoo View Post
True it'll take some time for guys like Morin & Hagg to develop but don't forget the situation concerning the prospective dmen was a lot worse 2-3 seasons ago before the emergence of Oliver Lauridsen and then later with the drafting of Morin & Hagg. Takes a while to build a pipeline. I could see why Flyer fans could be frustrated with past decisions but I think they've realized the errors of their ways and this last draft at least showed they're committed to building that blue line going forward.


When did this happen? What did he emerge into?

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02-26-2014, 11:56 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I don't see Hagg providing much in terms of offense. I see him as a fairly mobile physiscal defenseman who plays a game similar to brooks Orpik. Maatta is a guy who is going to be able to play the pp, same size , just as mobile, maybe not as physical but still very strong.
I haven't had the opportunity to watch Hagg much outside of the WJC but according to Meltzer, who watches lots of SHL games, he's got a similar offensive upside to Ghost. He obviously has the better size, better defense and plays with some grit too. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Hagg develops into the best player of the bunch (Ghost and Morin being the others in said bunch).

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02-26-2014, 12:04 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
I haven't had the opportunity to watch Hagg much outside of the WJC but according to Meltzer, who watches lots of SHL games, he's got a similar offensive upside to Ghost. He obviously has the better size, better defense and plays with some grit too. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Hagg develops into the best player of the bunch (Ghost and Morin being the others in said bunch).
I would say hell no to that. Ghost is basically a bigger torey krug type. When you watch him play with chara he Is basically the 4th forward while chara is hanging back to make sure nothing gets past him. That is why so many see the combo of morin and ghost working in the future.

Hagg is kind of like a more mobile schenn imo.

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02-26-2014, 12:26 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post


When did this happen? What did he emerge into?
That's true, I was thinking at the end of last season he sort of impressed me. Since then he hasn't had many opportunities. I think he could be something special tho.

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02-26-2014, 12:55 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
I would say hell no to that. Ghost is basically a bigger torey krug type. When you watch him play with chara he Is basically the 4th forward while chara is hanging back to make sure nothing gets past him. That is why so many see the combo of morin and ghost working in the future.

Hagg is kind of like a more mobile schenn imo.
I see him developing into a smaller, more physical Coburn w/ a canon that would make him usefull on the pp.

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02-26-2014, 03:03 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by DoobeeDoobeeDoo View Post
That's true, I was thinking at the end of last season he sort of impressed me. Since then he hasn't had many opportunities. I think he could be something special tho.
That's pretty wishful thinking. I think it would be pretty surprising if he ever became more than a fringe NHLer/bottom pair type guy. He's got size, but that's about it at this point.

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02-26-2014, 03:57 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
I see him developing into a smaller, more physical Coburn w/ a canon that would make him usefull on the pp.
Based on what I've seen of Hagg (admittedly not a lot) I think he has significantly more offensive upside than either Schenn or Coburn. He seems very poised with the puck and a very good passer. I'm inclined to think of him as a bigger, more physical Timonen rather than some variety of Coburn/Schenn.

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02-26-2014, 04:04 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
That's pretty wishful thinking. I think it would be pretty surprising if he ever became more than a fringe NHLer/bottom pair type guy. He's got size, but that's about it at this point.
Possibly, I might be looking more at potential than actual results. I will admit I'm a big fan of what his size brings to the ice and it's hard to look past that.

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02-26-2014, 06:02 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
Hagg is kind of like a more mobile schenn imo.
Dude, you have some really outrageous views. A lot of them are pretty funny.

From what I have seen, not a lot tbh, Hagg has more offensive skills in his head than LSchenn has in his entire body.

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02-26-2014, 06:05 PM
  #164
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Dude, you have some really outrageous views. A lot of them are pretty funny.

From what I have seen, not a lot tbh, Hagg has more offensive skills in his head than LSchenn has in his entire body.
If luke had more mobility he would be a borderline all star . He handles the puck well , has some moves and consistently gets pucks on net. The problem is he may be the slowest player ever so he cant have the puck on his stick for too long.

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02-26-2014, 06:16 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Jtown View Post
If luke had more mobility he would be a borderline all star . He handles the puck well , has some moves and consistently gets pucks on net. The problem is he may be the slowest player ever so he cant have the puck on his stick for too long.
Mobility is one of the most important traits of a player. So when you compare a player whose skating is arguably his greatest strength, to a player whose skating is arguably his greatest weakness, its odd.

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02-26-2014, 06:24 PM
  #166
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Mobility is one of the most important traits of a player. So when you compare a player whose skating is arguably his greatest strength, to a player whose skating is arguably his greatest weakness, its odd.
but the two have similar games. That is why the comparison works.

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02-26-2014, 07:18 PM
  #167
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but the two have similar games. That is why the comparison works.
I'm not seeing it.

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02-26-2014, 10:23 PM
  #168
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If luke had more mobility he would be a borderline all star . He handles the puck well , has some moves and consistently gets pucks on net. The problem is he may be the slowest player ever so he cant have the puck on his stick for too long.
I agree with you on Schenn. People confuse his lack of foot speed with lack of skill. He is a good passer and has a good shot that gets on net.

I totally don't see your Hagg comparisons. Hagg is a faster and smoother skater then Schenn and Orpik. Hagg's biggest fault has been consistency which could be from being an 18 y/o playing with men.

He reminds me of a bigger Petr Svboda with a heavier shot. Really good skater with an edge to his game.

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02-26-2014, 11:24 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post


When did this happen? What did he emerge into?
Lol i was gonna say the exact same thing!i didn't realize he was the next big thing

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02-27-2014, 07:24 AM
  #170
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If luke had more mobility he would be a borderline all star . He handles the puck well , has some moves and consistently gets pucks on net. The problem is he may be the slowest player ever so he cant have the puck on his stick for too long.
I do not see that with Luke at all. More of I see a problem with his hockey IQ. Even if he had more mobility, his lack of hockey IQ will still hold him back. Look at Coburn; the guy can skate like the wind and he used to have a shot; a good defenseman, but he is not an all-star. Nothing has really clicked in Coburn's head to put everything together. Also, do not see any sort of puck skills the older Schenn has; not that the younger one has any to rave about either.

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02-27-2014, 09:55 AM
  #171
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Lol i was gonna say the exact same thing!i didn't realize he was the next big thing
I think he has a lot of potential. Flyers should find a way to use him better.

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02-27-2014, 10:17 AM
  #172
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Oliver Lauridsen is at best a weak #5 defenseman. That's his absolute ceiling to me.

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02-27-2014, 11:30 AM
  #173
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Oliver Lauridsen is at best a weak #5 defenseman. That's his absolute ceiling to me.
Agreed. Pretty smart defenseman, but just doesn't have the skill to play at this level.

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02-27-2014, 11:43 AM
  #174
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In honor of this thread...


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03-02-2014, 06:25 AM
  #175
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The flyers never draft players like Olli Maatta. And that is what drives this fanbase crazy. We are a team that is in need of mobile defenders with puck skills and an offensive upside. Whereas the pens have those type of guys in spades in pouliot , maatta, despres, and letang. Morin won't be a major factor until he is 23-25, and hagg won't have the type of impact as maatta.
It is exactly what drives me crazy, they value size and grit over speed and skill.
If they had drafted Maatta instead of Laughton, and Morrisey/Pulock instead
of Morin they would have made progress towards building a defense sooner.
They needed to get prospects with more skill to balance the Schenn/Grossman factor.

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