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Losing confidence in MacT

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Old
02-27-2014, 12:49 PM
  #76
rboomercat90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
The Oilers are hardly the only team that looks within its ranks or at personal connections when hiring people.

Just a few other examples.

Cam Neely is President of the Bruins.
The Sabres hired Bryan Murray's nephew.
Minnesota's GM is Cliff Fletcher's son.
Doug Wilson in San Jose used to play for them.

Hockey is pretty much one big old boy's network

Also worth mentioning: not a single one of the head coaches that have passed through the revolving door here since 2009 had previous affiliations with the org, nor did the abject failure of a GM that preceded MacT.
You could have mentioned more of them too. Old Boys Clubs are common and I never had a problem when ours was established some fifteen years ago either. I think it's great when players try to transition to a life after their playing days. The team that you played for is a good place to get your foot into the door to begin your coaching or management career. A foot in the door is all it should be though. What seems to be lost in our club though is the expectation of performance in the job. These guys have treated these positions as jobs for life and have bent over backwards to protect each other to what has clearly become a detriment to the team. We aren't seeing this to the extent we are here any where else.

This brings us to the coaches you mention and the former GM. All guys with no playing affiliation and these are the guys the organization deemed expendable? I'm not going to pretend for a second that any of them should still be here but why were they shown the door while the guys from the club remained. It's baffling to me how both Renney and Krueger could be let go and Buchberger and Smith were retained. IMO, it's time for the entire club to be flushed when these types of decisions are starting to be made because it sure isn't being done in the best interest of the team. Isn't the best interest of the team what's always important? It's going to be interesting to watch how Mactavish navigates this land mine this off season.

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02-27-2014, 01:09 PM
  #77
Master Lok
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Originally Posted by TheSpecialist View Post
Bottom line is MacT was a subpar coach and people on here are blinded and give him more credit then he actually deserves. His decision to hire Eakins while keeping the duo of Oiler alumni rejects tells you what MacT really knows about coaching.
If MacT was a subpar coach, then Quinn, Renney, and Krueger must have been god awful.

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02-27-2014, 01:19 PM
  #78
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If MacTavish only gets "picks". In exchange for whoever he trades in the next week, he should be fired.
No franchise has suffered more from the delusion of "picks".
This franschise needs players not futures.
This is MacTavis lowering the bar of expectationsm
An incompetent.

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02-27-2014, 01:33 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmik View Post
If MacTavish only gets "picks". In exchange for whoever he trades in the next week, he should be fired.
No franchise has suffered more from the delusion of "picks".
This franschise needs players not futures.
This is MacTavis lowering the bar of expectationsm
An incompetent.
lol this is funny. Yeah he is a jerk for not suggesting Shea Weber is coming to the Oilers for Hemsky and Gagner.

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02-27-2014, 01:36 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
If MacT was a subpar coach, then Quinn, Renney, and Krueger must have been god awful.
MacT at least had some semblance of an NHL roster to work with.

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Old
02-27-2014, 01:37 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by fuswald View Post
If Hall can learn 2 way I would agree but there is a reason he was left off the Olympic team. Is good but there is for sure better value out there.

I have no love for any player, all are assets to play or for trade (though I do feel a bit for Yakupov for obvious reasons). They are employee, no, possessions of the Oiler company for entertainment value. This was drilled into me when Gretzky was sold like an animal. Employees are hired and fired, sports players are bought and sold. They think it is ok because they get a pile of money but bought and sold none the less.
Eakins is certainly working on developing a two way game in all of our players, Hall is no exception to this. I think people are too quick to jump on his defensive game as the reason he was left off the team. The only similarly aged players who made the team were Tavares, Duchene and Subban, two of which were taken as our "extras", and even Tavares wasn't used in a very large role prior to his injury. The team focussed mostly on experience and guys who have proven that they can win at the NHL level. I believe that the fact that he is so young, and a winger, were the two biggest reasons why he wasn't considered for Sochi.

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Old
02-27-2014, 01:46 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmik View Post
If MacTavish only gets "picks". In exchange for whoever he trades in the next week, he should be fired.
No franchise has suffered more from the delusion of "picks".
This franschise needs players not futures.
This is MacTavis lowering the bar of expectationsm
An incompetent.
Bad players on bad teams don't garner much return.

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Old
02-27-2014, 03:31 PM
  #83
Trafalgar Law
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmik View Post
If MacTavish only gets "picks". In exchange for whoever he trades in the next week, he should be fired.
No franchise has suffered more from the delusion of "picks".
This franschise needs players not futures.
This is MacTavis lowering the bar of expectationsm
An incompetent.
Yeah, why can't he trade Nick Schultz for Alex Pietrangelo?

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Old
02-27-2014, 03:47 PM
  #84
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I think if Mac T played his cards right he "could" get a late 1st round pick for Hemsky or a good prospect. No chance at a great prospect and the only reason a late first is because of how weak this draft is supposed to be.

As much as I would like to see Gagner gone I think he stays at least until the draft if not till the end of his contract.

Shultz could garner a late second or early third.

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02-27-2014, 04:35 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
I think if Mac T played his cards right he "could" get a late 1st round pick for Hemsky or a good prospect. No chance at a great prospect and the only reason a late first is because of how weak this draft is supposed to be.

As much as I would like to see Gagner gone I think he stays at least until the draft if not till the end of his contract.

Shultz could garner a late second or early third.
I see a 2nd rounder as about as good as it gets for Hemsky... and Nick Schultz... I don't know... I think a 4th is more realistic honestly.

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02-27-2014, 04:46 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
I see a 2nd rounder as about as good as it gets for Hemsky... and Nick Schultz... I don't know... I think a 4th is more realistic honestly.
Historically speaking teams vastly overpay for rentals.

But yes a second is much more likely but I think this year maybe a very late 1st could be parted with for Hemsky's services.

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Old
02-27-2014, 04:56 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by ManofSteel55 View Post
You can flip that around and say that without uncharacteristically horrible goaltending to start the year (Dubnyk was the worst he's ever been), we wouldn't have been that far in the hole in the first place.
this this this this. We have a .500 hockey team. It might still be between 20th overall in the league. Dubnyk single handedly killed the vibe and optimism the lockerroom. With him gone and Bryz and Scrivens here, you can tell with their energy the team is playing better. Even in the San Jose game, even though the Sharks got almost 60shots through, which on paper looks bad, but remember what was happening on the ice???? Everyone bought in clearing rebounds, blocking shots, doing everything they could to help out Scrivens.

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02-27-2014, 05:02 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmik View Post
If MacTavish only gets "picks". In exchange for whoever he trades in the next week, he should be fired.
No franchise has suffered more from the delusion of "picks".
This franschise needs players not futures.
This is MacTavis lowering the bar of expectationsm
An incompetent.
I disagree. It is a sellers market at the trade deadline so anybody decent would be a huge price. Too late for a good trade. If we can move our free agents for good pics or good prospects then that would be the only success we can hope for. Or re-sign who we can to retain some value (Scrivens).

Anybody we want plenty of others want as well and those still in the hunt will pay handsomely. Our free agents who aren't playoff players we will be stuck with or gone for a song.

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02-27-2014, 05:02 PM
  #89
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Lol. This defence sucks, Bryz numbers we're just as bad. The last 10 games are an outlier that is clearly deceiving a ton of people here into thinking that dubynyk is somehow the reason for us being 2nd last which is not even close to the truth. Anybody here can go look at that TSN shot tracker and see the massive difference in shot locations between the Oilers and their competition and understand that any goalie would be getting lit up.

You think Scrivens can keep saving 35-45 shots a night? The law of averages will set it just like it did for Bryz.

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02-27-2014, 05:08 PM
  #90
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I'm sure I got a few wrong here (I'd be fired) but here is my guess.

A couple of Our RFA's will go at the trade deadline as part of a deal.

Gagner goes somewhere because had enough of the fans and media and it will be almost for nothing. Gagners choice not MacT.

Mark Arcobello RFA stays, offer made
Ben Eager UFA gone
Luke Gazdic RFA stays, offer made
Curtis Hamilton RFA stays, offer made
Ales Hemsky UFA gone by trade deadline, we get a second
Roman Horak RFA gone
Ryan Jones UFA not offered, gone for nothing
Anton Lander RFA stays, offer made
Steve MacIntyre UFA gone for nothing
Andrew Miller RFA not offered, gone for nothing
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins RFA signed
Steve Pinizzotto UFA gone for nothing
Tyler Pitlick RFA stays, offer made
Ryan Smyth UFA stays, offer made

Anton Belov UFA stays, offer made
Taylor Fedun UFA stays, offer made
Mark Fraser UFA stays, offer made
Denis Grebeshkov UFA gone for nothing
Philip Larsen RFA stays, offer made
Jeff Petry RFA stays, offer made
Corey Potter UFA gone for nothing
Justin Schultz RFA stays, offer made
Nick Schultz UFA gone by trade deadline, we get a 3rd

Richard Bachman RFA stays, offer made
Ilya Bryzgalov UFA offer made and rejected, lost for nothing
Ben Scrivens UFA stays, offer made

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Old
02-27-2014, 05:09 PM
  #91
Fixed to Ruin
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Regarding the draft picks. We don't need any extra picks this year. We need to roll with the prospects we got and bring in NHL talent.

I think an interesting strategy would be to try an acquire picks in 2015-2016. Why. Well if the team is finally competitive starting next year or in a playoff position in 2016 and MacT is sitting on a bunch of extra draft picks we got from Nick Schultz, Ales Hemsky and maybe Jones, Belov and Potter. We can easily spend those picks acquire the missing pieces we need for a playoff run once we become buyers in the marketplace.

With a large Stockpile of picks in the years ahead to spend when we are buyers, the Oilers would be able to acquire any number of interesting players at the deadline without having to sacrifice our long term future.

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Old
02-27-2014, 05:27 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matmik View Post
If MacTavish only gets "picks". In exchange for whoever he trades in the next week, he should be fired.
No franchise has suffered more from the delusion of "picks".
This franschise needs players not futures.
This is MacTavis lowering the bar of expectationsm
An incompetent.
Or he can get rid of players he has no intention of signing and get something for it.
If he doesn't want to resign Hemsky, then why not get a 2nd for him. Better then letting him walk and getting nothing.

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Old
02-27-2014, 05:50 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by yukoner88 View Post
this this this this. We have a .500 hockey team. It might still be between 20th overall in the league. Dubnyk single handedly killed the vibe and optimism the lockerroom. With him gone and Bryz and Scrivens here, you can tell with their energy the team is playing better. Even in the San Jose game, even though the Sharks got almost 60shots through, which on paper looks bad, but remember what was happening on the ice???? Everyone bought in clearing rebounds, blocking shots, doing everything they could to help out Scrivens.
they have looked like they are starting to buy-in. and they finally look like an NHL team.


Quote:
Originally Posted by flashy View Post
Lol. This defence sucks, Bryz numbers we're just as bad. The last 10 games are an outlier that is clearly deceiving a ton of people here into thinking that dubynyk is somehow the reason for us being 2nd last which is not even close to the truth. Anybody here can go look at that TSN shot tracker and see the massive difference in shot locations between the Oilers and their competition and understand that any goalie would be getting lit up.

You think Scrivens can keep saving 35-45 shots a night? The law of averages will set it just like it did for Bryz.
Will he be letting in a dump-in from outside the blue line about every 5th game? will he let in an off-balance wrister from the point, every 2nd game? Will every single tip-in, deflection, screen and knuckler finds its way in and be an excuse? Will Scrivens be rated lower than the 60th goalie in the NHL? To say that the worst goaltending anyone can remember had no bearing on the team's mental state and, ergo, record is crazy.

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02-27-2014, 06:09 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by nexttothemoon View Post
Looking at the last 10 Oilers games compared to their season averages:

Goals per game over last 10 games: 2.40
Season average goals per game: 2.52
They are worse recently.

Goals against per game over last 10 games: 2.10
Season average goals against per game: 3.28
Goaltending has been MUCH better recently.

Shots for per game over last 10 games: 26.5
Season average shots for per game: 27.1
They are worse recently.

Shots against per game over last 10 games: 36.1
Season average shots against per game: 32.4
They are worse recently.

PP% over last 10 games: 11.4%
Season average PP%: 16.9%
They are worse recently.

PP shots per power play opportunity over last 10 games: 1.17
Season average PP shots per power play opportunity: 1.37
They are worse recently.

PK% over last 10 games: 87.9%
Season average PK%: 81.3%
They are better recently (again this is in large part due to the much better goaltending as well).

PK shots against per penalty kill over last 10 games: 1.55
Season average PK shots against per penalty kill: 1.58
Essentially the same.


Basically if you look at the stats (and of course watch the games)... it's obvious that the MUCH better goaltending is the only area where this team is better.

Eakins, MacT or anyone else pointing to the "improved play" over the last 10 games should ONLY be referencing the MUCH better goaltending... anything else is a bias towards the reality of what has actually been going on.
Goaltending is part of the equation.

Where would we be if we had NHL average goaltending for the whole year?

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Old
02-27-2014, 06:18 PM
  #95
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I can't believe I am going to say this but.

Dub was not the only reason we were out of the playoff picture so early.

He was the main reason for sure.

But.

Hall was abysmal.

J. Shultz was Abysmal.

Eberle at times was terrible.

Gagner has sucked.

Petry has been god awful most this year.

This team has taken a huge step back this year from last and that is saying something.

Even with Scrivens from day one we would not truly be in the playoff picture this year.

The coach is the #2 culprit for the teams poor play. Maybe even #1 as the systems he implemented maybe did not work to Dub's strengths.

You can not have half your team regress and have it anything but poor coaching.

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02-27-2014, 06:37 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
I can't believe I am going to say this but.

Dub was not the only reason we were out of the playoff picture so early.

He was the main reason for sure.

But.

Hall was abysmal.

J. Shultz was Abysmal.

Eberle at times was terrible.

Gagner has sucked.

Petry has been god awful most this year.

This team has taken a huge step back this year from last and that is saying something.

Even with Scrivens from day one we would not truly be in the playoff picture this year.

The coach is the #2 culprit for the teams poor play. Maybe even #1 as the systems he implemented maybe did not work to Dub's strengths.

You can not have half your team regress and have it anything but poor coaching.
I agree with this, but that doesn't mean he will be a failure. he didn't have buyin. they hated him, in fact (well, actually, its only been hinted at). It is looking like he might finally have buyin. this last 20 games may tell us more.

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Old
02-27-2014, 10:59 PM
  #97
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MacT is right. the team is improving.

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02-27-2014, 11:49 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixed to Ruin View Post
Regarding the draft picks. We don't need any extra picks this year. We need to roll with the prospects we got and bring in NHL talent.

I think an interesting strategy would be to try an acquire picks in 2015-2016. Why. Well if the team is finally competitive starting next year or in a playoff position in 2016 and MacT is sitting on a bunch of extra draft picks we got from Nick Schultz, Ales Hemsky and maybe Jones, Belov and Potter. We can easily spend those picks acquire the missing pieces we need for a playoff run once we become buyers in the marketplace.

With a large Stockpile of picks in the years ahead to spend when we are buyers, the Oilers would be able to acquire any number of interesting players at the deadline without having to sacrifice our long term future.
This is also one of the few places it could work, because:

GMs job is fairly secure
Fans don't care about current picks as much
Can sell even more on hope of being good soon

Good idea IMO.

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02-28-2014, 12:02 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Up the Irons View Post
I agree with this, but that doesn't mean he will be a failure. he didn't have buyin. they hated him, in fact (well, actually, its only been hinted at). It is looking like he might finally have buyin. this last 20 games may tell us more.
Everyone was saying buy in finally happened... And that game there is Eakins system with full buy in...

Disgusting.

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02-28-2014, 09:12 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Hockey Nightmare View Post
MacT is right. the team is improving.
its draft position HEEEYYYOOOOOOOOOO

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