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Hemsky talks about his future

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Old
02-27-2014, 12:12 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Hemsky has scored 140 goals in his entire NHL career. Statistically he's a dud in that respect and yet its oddly enough what his hilite reels are all about. Most of them are beauties, no doubt, but again this isn't figure skating. Fact of the matter is he doesn't score a lot of goals.

Next, he's nowhere near the sublime passer that people think he is. This team for years operated some very simple plays that even Omark could execute on occasion. Half of hemsky assists would probably be on passes across to a guy parked in lip of crease for a tap in. The scorecoff type goal. Much of the rest of his assists have Ryan Smyths name on them.

Finally, if you think Hemsky has much to do with winning you must've visited the worng board by mistake. I don't that winning and Hemsky ought to be in the same sentence
Sure, but he also added 335 assists to that total. 475 points in 649 games. Not to shabby. I'll take a player that contributes tangible results that are generally well establish as contributing to winning games any day over the mysticism of "intangibles".

It could be argued that Hemsky and winning arent exactly associated with each other more due to the mess of a franchise he plays for rather than a flaw in the player.

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02-27-2014, 08:26 AM
  #152
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Here's my prediction for Hemsky's future.

1. Hemsky is traded at the deadline to a contender for a 2nd round pick and/or an ok prospect.

2. He shows a "return to form" for the rest of the season/playoffs, averaging 0.7 PPG. Hemsky fans call for MacT's head

3. He's signed to a multi-year deal in the offseason by a bottom feeder team in desperate need of offense, for $4-5 million per season

4. He goes on to average about 10 goals and 25-30 assists per season over this new contract. Oiler fans breathe a sigh of relief that he was not resigned for this amount.

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02-27-2014, 10:23 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by ScrillaVilla View Post
Sure, but he also added 335 assists to that total. 475 points in 649 games. Not to shabby. I'll take a player that contributes tangible results that are generally well establish as contributing to winning games any day over the mysticism of "intangibles".

It could be argued that Hemsky and winning arent exactly associated with each other more due to the mess of a franchise he plays for rather than a flaw in the player.
It's pretty funny that the poster you're responding to has used that same argument to pump the tires of his personal golden boy.

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02-27-2014, 10:51 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by ScrillaVilla View Post
Sure, but he also added 335 assists to that total. 475 points in 649 games. Not to shabby. I'll take a player that contributes tangible results that are generally well establish as contributing to winning games any day over the mysticism of "intangibles".
Yes, but the pts/ game total above is somewhat misleading. Hemsky has played 11 seasons. In that time he's averaged 43pts/year. The kind of numbers people complain about with Gagner for instance and with Sam being 6yrs younger and just hitting prime.
If one isolates Hemskys earlier years where he was for some reason a significantly better player Hemsky is looking more like a 31 pt year producer in last 5 seasons. Albeit much of the low numbers through injury but with that prognosis likely to continue.

Quote:
It could be argued that Hemsky and winning arent exactly associated with each other more due to the mess of a franchise he plays for rather than a flaw in the player.
The thing is I think we realize that lackluster performances from veterans in past years whether it be Horcoff, Hemsky, Belanger, even Smyth contribute to the team losing.
Some of those past years if everybody was rowing one would think the team could do better.
Teams and players overperform in the NHL every season. But rarely here. This has become a place where players get overpaid and do the bare minimum for it. Hemsky has fit that script during his last contract.

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02-27-2014, 11:30 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by ScrillaVilla View Post
Sooooo... do points (you know, things equating to scoring goals) win hockey games or do intangibles?

Remember Hemmer during the 06 cup run? That was a player I'd have to say was bringing all sorts of "intangibles" to the ice.
I guess it would be difficult to understand how important those other "intangibles" are to a team if you are a younger fan and and have grown up watching the Katz edition of the Oilers. This team is seriously lacking in the type of players required to be able to win anything. The thirty pints a year that Hemsky scores don't help this team win anything. If he could kill penalties or throw some body checks or even be a good mentor to the younger players then those 30 points would mean more. Those points by itself don't mean much. Similar argument can be made about Gagner.

Incidentally, that 06 team was filled with those types of players. You could go up and down the lineup and find them. Sadly, most of them left that summer and the ones that didn't haven't played that way since.

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02-27-2014, 02:17 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Qrispy View Post
And which part of this is Hemsky's fault?

"Facts"

Did MacT not basically say "Ales Hemsky will not be traded because we don't want to retain salary on him", and by most reports, there's a good chance the Oilers retain salary on Hemsky to trade him away. That means we literally have to pay to not play Hemsky on the team, worse than giving someone away. We didn't even have to retain salary on Shawn freaking Horcoff for Christ's sake.

At what point in Hemsky's now decade long career has he displayed any semblence of leadership or accountability?

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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Smyth has looked like the best player on the club? I've watched every game in its entirety this year but one. I must've fallen asleep or something.

Hemsky is drastically better at hockey than Smyth. I can't believe I'm even typing this out.

When we trade Smyth at the deadline for a 4th but trade Hemsky for a 2nd will you believe me?
As someone who hates both players' presence in the roster, even if Hemsky is better than Smyth at hockey, I'd keep clapper over Hemsky if forced to keep them for one more season. At least Smyth can provide some leadership and gives an effort (even if it always fails).

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02-27-2014, 02:27 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
Here's a nice list... look at the guys who Hemsky has kept up with.

The last 2 years have been rough (new role, less ice time, less PP time, recovering from surgery)



He really doesn't get enough credit around here
And the reality is, his 28-30 ppg is by far and away the worst on that list. This is reality, and this is the player Hemsky is today. Hemsky was probably the Oilers' best forward for a 3 year stretch, but it's the most recent 3 years that count the most, during which he's done nothing but underachieve and set a poor example.

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02-27-2014, 02:52 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by ScrillaVilla View Post
Sooooo... do points (you know, things equating to scoring goals) win hockey games or do intangibles?

Remember Hemmer during the 06 cup run? That was a player I'd have to say was bringing all sorts of "intangibles" to the ice.
Wait what? Now this here is the perfect example of the revisionist history that Hemsky fanboys do to ensure their golden boy is immune to the criticism that players like Horcoff, Souray, Moreau, Smyth etc get (and these guys deserved every bit of critcism). Hemsky is the epitome of lacking intangibles and accountability, and dropping the quality of his game when it mattered most. What I saw was a player who aside from a brief spark of life in Game 6 against Detroit and a few other games, was a shadow of the player he was in the regular season. As most of the roster elevated their game and had the performances of a lifetime, guys like Hemsky and MAB dropped the ball. Lets take a look down the roster shall we?

Horcoff is blocking shots with his face, playing opposing top 6 forwards in all situations, and producing whether it's even strength, PP, or SH. Smyth loses a significant portion of his teeth but returns to help will the team to victory in the same game, and annoys opposing goaltenders every game. Torres plays physical and basically turns around an entire playoff series with the Michalek hit. Stoll basically wins every faceoff he steps up to. Pisani goes god mode. Peca regains some of the touch that made him at one point considered the best two-way forward in the NHL. Laraque/Murray/Harvey aren't very productive, but they played hard physical forechecking games and provided energy every shift. Every defenceman on the team except MAB sacrifices their body to block shots, clear the crease, jump in on offence, and played physical but responsible hockey. Pronger especially was co-playoff MVP along with Pisani. I don't think I need to remind anyone of Roloson's heroics. The important thing all of these guys had in common was that they elevated their game from the regular season.

Hemsky? Well, he dropped from a near 80 point pace to about a 55 point pace, with two thirds of his points scored on the power play, as he struggled to outproduce even the team's third liners at even strength. (EDIT: just checked nhl.com, the third liners actually all outproduced him at even strength, Hemsky was actually only better than Dvorak and the fourth liners) Yes, he had that series winning goal against Detroit, but it was Pisani that drove the team's comeback that game. For the majority of the playoffs he was quietly putting up secondary assists and tap-in goals on the power play.

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02-27-2014, 03:27 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
At what point in Hemsky's now decade long career has he displayed any semblence of leadership or accountability?

As someone who hates both players' presence in the roster, even if Hemsky is better than Smyth at hockey, I'd keep clapper over Hemsky if forced to keep them for one more season. At least Smyth can provide some leadership and gives an effort (even if it always fails).
Fans like you deserve the team we have. 100 per cent.

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02-27-2014, 03:28 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
And the reality is, his 28-30 ppg is by far and away the worst on that list. This is reality, and this is the player Hemsky is today. Hemsky was probably the Oilers' best forward for a 3 year stretch, but it's the most recent 3 years that count the most, during which he's done nothing but underachieve and set a poor example.
That's the point of the chart. I believe he's under achieving here and his numbers would be bumped up a bit playing somewhere else but we all need to take into account that he was recovering and freshly returned from major shoulder surgery during these years.

His game has definitely regressed but I don't think he has regressed as much as most people think.

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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
Wait what? Now this here is the perfect example of the revisionist history that Hemsky fanboys do to ensure their golden boy is immune to the criticism that players like Horcoff, Souray, Moreau, Smyth etc get (and these guys deserved every bit of critcism). Hemsky is the epitome of lacking intangibles and accountability, and dropping the quality of his game when it mattered most. What I saw was a player who aside from a brief spark of life in Game 6 against Detroit and a few other games, was a shadow of the player he was in the regular season. As most of the roster elevated their game and had the performances of a lifetime, guys like Hemsky and MAB dropped the ball. Lets take a look down the roster shall we?

Horcoff is blocking shots with his face, playing opposing top 6 forwards in all situations, and producing whether it's even strength, PP, or SH. Smyth loses a significant portion of his teeth but returns to help will the team to victory in the same game, and annoys opposing goaltenders every game. Torres plays physical and basically turns around an entire playoff series with the Michalek hit. Stoll basically wins every faceoff he steps up to. Pisani goes god mode. Peca regains some of the touch that made him at one point considered the best two-way forward in the NHL. Laraque/Murray/Harvey aren't very productive, but they played hard physical forechecking games and provided energy every shift. Every defenceman on the team except MAB sacrifices their body to block shots, clear the crease, jump in on offence, and played physical but responsible hockey. Pronger especially was co-playoff MVP along with Pisani. I don't think I need to remind anyone of Roloson's heroics. The important thing all of these guys had in common was that they elevated their game from the regular season.

Hemsky? Well, he dropped from a near 80 point pace to about a 55 point pace, with two thirds of his points scored on the power play, as he struggled to outproduce even the team's third liners at even strength. (EDIT: just checked nhl.com, the third liners actually all outproduced him at even strength, Hemsky was actually only better than Dvorak and the fourth liners) Yes, he had that series winning goal against Detroit, but it was Pisani that drove the team's comeback that game. For the majority of the playoffs he was quietly putting up secondary assists and tap-in goals on the power play.
Didn't Hemsky finished 2nd or 3rd in points on the entire team that playoff run? 17 points in 24 games in the playoffs is nothing to sneeze at.

Last year the leading playoff scorer had 26 pts (Kreijci) 2nd place had 19 (Kane)

The year before the leading playoff scorers had 20 pts (Kreijci & Brown)

I'll agree the other players like Torres, Horcoff, Pisani etc brought lots of valuable intangibles but Hemmer still had a damn fine playoff run, especially as a younger guy playing a secondary role.

I'd like to see how many 2nd liners put up that kind of offense in the playoffs in the last 10 years.


Last edited by SephF: 02-27-2014 at 03:40 PM.
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02-27-2014, 04:10 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by SephF View Post
That's the point of the chart. I believe he's under achieving here and his numbers would be bumped up a bit playing somewhere else but we all need to take into account that he was recovering and freshly returned from major shoulder surgery during these years.

His game has definitely regressed but I don't think he has regressed as much as most people think.



Didn't Hemsky finished 2nd or 3rd in points on the entire team that playoff run? 17 points in 24 games in the playoffs is nothing to sneeze at.

Last year the leading playoff scorer had 26 pts (Kreijci) 2nd place had 19 (Kane)

The year before the leading playoff scorers had 20 pts (Kreijci & Brown)

I'll agree the other players like Torres, Horcoff, Pisani etc brought lots of valuable intangibles but Hemmer still had a damn fine playoff run, especially as a younger guy playing a secondary role.

I'd like to see how many 2nd liners put up that kind of offense in the playoffs in the last 10 years.
Agreed.

When he said Hemsky dropped the ball when it mattered most, I thought about '06 and laughed out loud.

I get that a lot of people aren't big Hemsky fans, he does look pretty aloof out there. But using the old "he doesn't show up for big games" is pretty ridiculous considering his showings in the Olympics and playoffs.


Hemsky isn't worth 5M at this point, for sure. Nobody claimed that AFAIK. But he has something to give in a top-6 role somewhere.

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02-27-2014, 05:56 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by ScrillaVilla View Post
Sooooo... do points (you know, things equating to scoring goals) win hockey games or do intangibles?

Remember Hemmer during the 06 cup run? That was a player I'd have to say was bringing all sorts of "intangibles" to the ice.
Here's something to take a gander at:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...wName=summary#
The guys with "intangibles" are Pronger, Horcoff, Pisani, Peca, Torres, Stoll, Staios, Smith, Smyth, Moreau, Laraque, etc.

In addition to what points they get, they add an element that doesn't show up to a great extent in the boxcar stats. Battles won along the boards or in front of the net may slowly translate into +'s, but what they really do is keep the shots on net, ga and the -'s from piling up, and allow the all-important gp stat to increase. Some of these guys blocked shots, threw big hits, took big hits to move the puck up the boards, protected the goalie and their teammates (fought), intimidated, killed penalties, protected leads, took abuse in front of the net while Pronger blasted pucks past them...

After each series was over noone counted the new bruises on their bodies to add to the boxcar stats, but some of these guys did all or most of those things each and every shift while Ales did almost none of that in the whole playoffs.

Eg, Mike Peca's +5 is a huge stat, there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. It comes with the same # of goals Hemsky had (6) and 5 less total points. It also came with 4:19 of sh-toi/g while Ales had 0:01 sh-toi/g. It came with two more minutes per game of es-toi, and 4 minutes less of pp-toi/g. It came with the coach throwing him over the boards to face top opposition at every opportunity. Peca's points are scored as points + intangibles. Hemsky's are just points, you could almost subtract intangibles from it.

Could the Oilers have gotten that far without Peca? I dunno, can pigs fly? Could the Oilers have gotten that far without Hemsky? I dunno, how many more points could some other players have gotten with 4 more pp minutes per game?

Smith and Staios had 1 less es point than Hemsky. Torres had 2 more than Hemsky at es with 30 less min played.

Hemsky's 1 intangible is that other teams may choose certain d-men to be on the ice against him or certain fwds. It may get the other team back on their heels a bit at times, but it also gives them an uncontested outlet up the boards in their own zone. It's kind of a wash, and Ales had the 2nd worst +/- on the team.

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02-27-2014, 07:21 PM
  #163
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lol
Just STOP it already!
You are so out to lunch.
Crawford plays for the Blackhawks.

Have you ever watched The Big Lebowski? You're Donny, and you're out of your element.
Great post . Can we all start calling Groucho Donny ?
As for Crawford the Canucks fired him years ago . He was a coach not a goalie .
At least Have your facts correct before posting such things

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02-27-2014, 07:46 PM
  #164
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Why does Mac T keep saying our run in 2007 ? It was 2006 , he was the coach sure as a smart guy he can get the year right .

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02-27-2014, 08:07 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Here's something to take a gander at:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...wName=summary#
The guys with "intangibles" are Pronger, Horcoff, Pisani, Peca, Torres, Stoll, Staios, Smith, Smyth, Moreau, Laraque, etc.

In addition to what points they get, they add an element that doesn't show up to a great extent in the boxcar stats. Battles won along the boards or in front of the net may slowly translate into +'s, but what they really do is keep the shots on net, ga and the -'s from piling up, and allow the all-important gp stat to increase. Some of these guys blocked shots, threw big hits, took big hits to move the puck up the boards, protected the goalie and their teammates (fought), intimidated, killed penalties, protected leads, took abuse in front of the net while Pronger blasted pucks past them...

After each series was over noone counted the new bruises on their bodies to add to the boxcar stats, but some of these guys did all or most of those things each and every shift while Ales did almost none of that in the whole playoffs.

Eg, Mike Peca's +5 is a huge stat, there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. It comes with the same # of goals Hemsky had (6) and 5 less total points. It also came with 4:19 of sh-toi/g while Ales had 0:01 sh-toi/g. It came with two more minutes per game of es-toi, and 4 minutes less of pp-toi/g. It came with the coach throwing him over the boards to face top opposition at every opportunity. Peca's points are scored as points + intangibles. Hemsky's are just points, you could almost subtract intangibles from it.

Could the Oilers have gotten that far without Peca? I dunno, can pigs fly? Could the Oilers have gotten that far without Hemsky? I dunno, how many more points could some other players have gotten with 4 more pp minutes per game?

Smith and Staios had 1 less es point than Hemsky. Torres had 2 more than Hemsky at es with 30 less min played.

Hemsky's 1 intangible is that other teams may choose certain d-men to be on the ice against him or certain fwds. It may get the other team back on their heels a bit at times, but it also gives them an uncontested outlet up the boards in their own zone. It's kind of a wash, and Ales had the 2nd worst +/- on the team.
This. If anyone actually watched every game of the playoffs, you'd be shocked to learn that Hemsky was top 5 on the team in scoring. Hemsky and Samsonov put up more points than the Torres and Pecas of the team, but it was very clear which players had a bigger impact on ice, and as I pointed out before, these players actually had a bigger impact on the score sheet too at even strength. Even on his own line it was Smyth and as much as I hate to admit it, Horcoff, that drove the plays (again I'm ignoring the Detroit game).

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02-27-2014, 08:11 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
This. If anyone actually watched every game of the playoffs, you'd be shocked to learn that Hemsky was top 5 on the team in scoring. Hemsky and Samsonov put up more points than the Torres and Pecas of the team, but it was very clear which players had a bigger impact on ice, and as I pointed out before, these players actually had a bigger impact on the score sheet too at even strength. Even on his own line it was Smyth and as much as I hate to admit it, Horcoff, that drove the plays (again I'm ignoring the Detroit game).
Regardless of how he performed relative to his teammates his playoff run was still impressive though no?

A young guy with no playoff experience comes through in the clutch (including that huge win against SJS in the regular season to make INTO the playoffs to begin with, Hemsky scored). I thought he played a big part in that run.

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02-27-2014, 08:26 PM
  #167
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Hemsky was anything but a passenger, as is being implied by one or two in this thread, and most certainly a catalyst in the 2006 playoff run. The poster who is trying to downplay and minimalize his contributions should try and make his ongoing agenda against this player less obvious; trivializing second assists and ignoring the fact that Hemsky's importance to the team during that run went far beyond putting up points (Watch the games and you'll see he bought in defensively and played just as good of a 200' game as anybody else on the roster) is revisionist history that is biased and slanted to fit into this warped reality Trafalgar Law seems to want to create every single time anybody so much as mentions Ales Hemsky.

Another point in this thread that was made by Replacement about Ryan Smyth not being a beneficiary of Ales Hemsky and it being the other way around. I'd beg to differ; Ales Hemsky is a large part of the reason why both he and Shawn Horcoff cashed in on the contracts they did. I don't know why people are looking at Ales Hemsky's career as a whole through this narrow lens of the past two or three seasons, two of which were ended due to shoulder surgery. Prior to those injuries he was on pace for two of the best seasons of his career both times; which brings up another point, the people who say that Hemsky plays soft and avoids contact... if he were that type of player, he'd be a much healthier one too. At this point it shouldn't have to even be mentioned but contrary to what some may believe, there is a difference between playing cerebral and not giving a ****. If people still can't understand the way Hemsky plays the game after all these years, they either haven't been watching him or are too entrenched in their loathing of the player to want to acknowledge this fact.

Funny how a narrative can be so twisted to fit ones point of view. Edmonton hockey fans may be smart at times but they don't hesitate to turn on and eat their own. No wonder players don't want to play in Canadian fishbowl's.

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02-27-2014, 08:32 PM
  #168
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Hemsky was anything but a passenger, as is being implied by one or two in this thread, and most certainly a catalyst in the 2006 playoff run. The poster who is trying to downplay and minimalize his contributions should try and make his ongoing agenda against this player less obvious; trivializing second assists and ignoring the fact that Hemsky's importance to the team during that run went far beyond putting up points (Watch the games and you'll see he bought in defensively and played just as good of a 200' game as anybody else on the roster) is revisionist history that is biased and slanted to fit into this warped reality Trafalgar Law seems to want to create every single time anybody so much as mentions Ales Hemsky.

Another point in this thread that was made by Replacement about Ryan Smyth not being a beneficiary of Ales Hemsky and it being the other way around. I'd beg to differ; Ales Hemsky is a large part of the reason why both he and Shawn Horcoff cashed in on the contracts they did. I don't know why people are looking at Ales Hemsky's career as a whole through this narrow lens of the past two or three seasons, two of which were ended due to shoulder surgery. Prior to those injuries he was on pace for two of the best seasons of his career both times; which brings up another point, the people who say that Hemsky plays soft and avoids contact... if he were that type of player, he'd be a much healthier one too. At this point it shouldn't have to even be mentioned but contrary to what some may believe, there is a difference between playing cerebral and not giving a ****. If people still can't understand the way Hemsky plays the game after all these years, they either haven't been watching him or are too entrenched in their loathing of the player to want to acknowledge this fact.

Funny how a narrative can be so twisted to fit ones point of view. Edmonton hockey fans may be smart at times but they don't hesitate to turn on and eat their own. No wonder players don't want to play in Canadian fishbowl's.
There are a few posters on here who seem to have Hemsky Derangement Syndrome. Its pretty baffling.

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02-27-2014, 08:33 PM
  #169
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Hemsky was anything but a passenger, as is being implied by one or two in this thread, and most certainly a catalyst in the 2006 playoff run. The poster who is trying to downplay and minimalize his contributions should try and make his ongoing agenda against this player less obvious; trivializing second assists and ignoring the fact that Hemsky's importance to the team during that run went far beyond putting up points (Watch the games and you'll see he bought in defensively and played just as good of a 200' game as anybody else on the roster) is revisionist history that is biased and slanted to fit into this warped reality Trafalgar Law seems to want to create every single time anybody so much as mentions Ales Hemsky.

Another point in this thread that was made by Replacement about Ryan Smyth not being a beneficiary of Ales Hemsky and it being the other way around. I'd beg to differ; Ales Hemsky is a large part of the reason why both he and Shawn Horcoff cashed in on the contracts they did. I don't know why people are looking at Ales Hemsky's career as a whole through this narrow lens of the past two or three seasons, two of which were ended due to shoulder surgery. Prior to those injuries he was on pace for two of the best seasons of his career both times; which brings up another point, the people who say that Hemsky plays soft and avoids contact... if he were that type of player, he'd be a much healthier one too. At this point it shouldn't have to even be mentioned but contrary to what some may believe, there is a difference between playing cerebral and not giving a ****. If people still can't understand the way Hemsky plays the game after all these years, they either haven't been watching him or are too entrenched in their loathing of the player to want to acknowledge this fact.

Funny how a narrative can be so twisted to fit ones point of view. Edmonton hockey fans may be smart at times but they don't hesitate to turn on and eat their own. No wonder players don't want to play in Canadian fishbowl's.
Sorry but how in hell do you think Ryan Smyth was a beneficiary of playing with Ales Hemsky. Smyth gets most of his goals down low on greasy stuff and Ales half the time is looking for a perfect pass instead of simply dumping it into where Smyth would typicall be. In horcoffs case I agree but its ridiculous to suggest Ryan Smyth goal scoring was dependent on Ales Hemsky. Smyth scored a lot of goals before, during, and after Hemsky.

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02-27-2014, 08:41 PM
  #170
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Sorry but how in hell do you think Ryan Smyth was a beneficiary of playing with Ales Hemsky. Smyth gets most of his goals down low on greasy stuff and Ales half the time is looking for a perfect pass instead of simply dumping it into where Smyth would typicall be. In horcoffs case I agree but its ridiculous to suggest Ryan Smyth goal scoring was dependent on Ales Hemsky. Smyth scored a lot of goals before, during, and after Hemsky.
Dependent may be the wrong term but there were a ton of Smytty goals I recall where he had simple tap-ins into empty nets from Hemsky tic-tac-toe passing plays and others where the puck got to net only because Hemsky was the driving force on that line that kept plays alive in the offensive zone. That line would have had nowhere near the scoring chances, offensive zone time of possession etc it had if Smyth and Horcoff hadn't had one of the premier offensive playmakers in the NHL (at that time) on their line. I think it is a foolhardy proposition to believe otherwise.

Indirectly or directly, Hemsky had an effect on Smyth's production.

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Originally Posted by Pablo Aimar View Post
There are a few posters on here who seem to have Hemsky Derangement Syndrome. Its pretty baffling.
The lack of appreciation and vitriol shouldn't be surprising but... sigh.

Really hope he gets to go to a playoff team and has some success. Would love to see him win a cup after all the crap he's had to put up with.

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02-27-2014, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by MrWoof View Post
Hemsky was anything but a passenger, as is being implied by one or two in this thread, and most certainly a catalyst in the 2006 playoff run. The poster who is trying to downplay and minimalize his contributions should try and make his ongoing agenda against this player less obvious; trivializing second assists and ignoring the fact that Hemsky's importance to the team during that run went far beyond putting up points (Watch the games and you'll see he bought in defensively and played just as good of a 200' game as anybody else on the roster) is revisionist history that is biased and slanted to fit into this warped reality Trafalgar Law seems to want to create every single time anybody so much as mentions Ales Hemsky.

Another point in this thread that was made by Replacement about Ryan Smyth not being a beneficiary of Ales Hemsky and it being the other way around. I'd beg to differ; Ales Hemsky is a large part of the reason why both he and Shawn Horcoff cashed in on the contracts they did. I don't know why people are looking at Ales Hemsky's career as a whole through this narrow lens of the past two or three seasons, two of which were ended due to shoulder surgery. Prior to those injuries he was on pace for two of the best seasons of his career both times; which brings up another point, the people who say that Hemsky plays soft and avoids contact... if he were that type of player, he'd be a much healthier one too. At this point it shouldn't have to even be mentioned but contrary to what some may believe, there is a difference between playing cerebral and not giving a ****. If people still can't understand the way Hemsky plays the game after all these years, they either haven't been watching him or are too entrenched in their loathing of the player to want to acknowledge this fact.

Funny how a narrative can be so twisted to fit ones point of view. Edmonton hockey fans may be smart at times but they don't hesitate to turn on and eat their own. No wonder players don't want to play in Canadian fishbowl's.
You don't have to take it all to mean that Hemsky was a parasite, just understand that he wasn't driving the bus and some players with less points actually made more of a positive impact than he did. Just like some of the current Oilers can be playing better than Gagner even tho they have less points.

And sorry but Hemsky isn't a $4M player based on anything he has done in the NHL.

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02-27-2014, 09:41 PM
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You don't have to take it all to mean that Hemsky was a parasite, just understand that he wasn't driving the bus and some players with less points actually made more of a positive impact than he did. Just like some of the current Oilers can be playing better than Gagner even tho they have less points.

And sorry but Hemsky isn't a $4M player based on anything he has done in the NHL.
He was, what, 23 years old? 24? He played mature beyond his years whether or not he was driving the bus, or not. Couldn't have expected anymore from a player his age; he exceeded any expectations I had at that point in time. I'll take a player who can step up and be clutch in big moments; Detroit game 6 tying it up and getting the GWG; Game 1 against Carolina tying it up 4-4 after giving up 4 unanswered; Game 5, another big goal. There were simply too many moments to count in that post-season where Hemsky was a positive factor and was integral to the team's success.

When you say "anything he has done in the NHL", are you disregarding the seasons where he put up 77 and 71 points?

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02-27-2014, 10:25 PM
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He was, what, 23 years old? 24? He played mature beyond his years whether or not he was driving the bus, or not. Couldn't have expected anymore from a player his age; he exceeded any expectations I had at that point in time. I'll take a player who can step up and be clutch in big moments; Detroit game 6 tying it up and getting the GWG; Game 1 against Carolina tying it up 4-4 after giving up 4 unanswered; Game 5, another big goal. There were simply too many moments to count in that post-season where Hemsky was a positive factor and was integral to the team's success.

When you say "anything he has done in the NHL", are you disregarding the seasons where he put up 77 and 71 points?
The playoff season we are talking about was at the end of the season he got 77 points

The kid made some big plays, I'm not trying to take anything away from him, but how many shots were blocked in that game, how many times did another Oiler take a hit to make a play in his own end etc to get the game to the point where Hemsky could be your hero?

If the Oilers dressed 18 Hemskys and Patrick Roy they would lose every game.

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02-28-2014, 08:47 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by MrWoof View Post
He was, what, 23 years old? 24? He played mature beyond his years whether or not he was driving the bus, or not. Couldn't have expected anymore from a player his age; he exceeded any expectations I had at that point in time. I'll take a player who can step up and be clutch in big moments; Detroit game 6 tying it up and getting the GWG; Game 1 against Carolina tying it up 4-4 after giving up 4 unanswered; Game 5, another big goal. There were simply too many moments to count in that post-season where Hemsky was a positive factor and was integral to the team's success.

When you say "anything he has done in the NHL", are you disregarding the seasons where he put up 77 and 71 points?
Hemsky hasn't been that player for a longtime. While its an interesting discussion it has little to do with the Hemsky we have now. For some reason a young player that was prolific has turned into a veteran that hasn't been for years.

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02-28-2014, 08:55 AM
  #175
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Dependent may be the wrong term but there were a ton of Smytty goals I recall where he had simple tap-ins into empty nets from Hemsky tic-tac-toe passing plays and others where the puck got to net only because Hemsky was the driving force on that line that kept plays alive in the offensive zone. That line would have had nowhere near the scoring chances, offensive zone time of possession etc it had if Smyth and Horcoff hadn't had one of the premier offensive playmakers in the NHL (at that time) on their line. I think it is a foolhardy proposition to believe otherwise.

Indirectly or directly, Hemsky had an effect on Smyth's production.

.
We're seeing things differently here and so would Ryan Smyth himself. Remember the Smyth frustration with Hemsky and you "don't have to have blinders on" message he gave Hemsky on the bench? There were many times where Smyth was working downlow in the danger areas getting crosschecked all the while Hemsky dangling on the halfboards oblivious looking for a perfect cross ice pass.

If you know Hemskys game doing the simple thing is rarely what he finds. All a guy like Smyth needs is somebody that shoots the puck a lot (Hemsky doesn't) and Smyth is around there tipping and banging away.

Smyth of course appreciated the downlow play of Weight and excellent service a whole lot more.

I do agree with you on Horc. He was highly reliant on the Hemmer passes but teams eventually took those passing lanes away.

Hemsky as a passer is less creative then people give him credit for. He's a fairly static halfboards player that telegraphs his passes and doesn't change it up enough. Hemsky always needed to offer the threat of attacking the box more if he was going to be a dangerous player. You have to admit 140NHL goals is really disappointing for somebody that has Hemskys mitts.

Conversely Doug Weight who had all kinds of trouble scoring, but was a fantastic passer really worked hard on trying to score and really busted his ass to bag those goals. Hemsky is a real talent that doesn't push that envelope nearly enough.

Thus where he is.

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