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Old
03-03-2014, 02:14 PM
  #26
Ardi44
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Originally Posted by SERE 24 View Post
Because I don't think, for many of sum the primary issue has anything to do with a Cally's contract solely as a percentage of the cap. I think the lunacy of paying Cally 6M, period, is the problem. He will still be paid 6M, to likely be a less effective hockey player than he is at the moment (which isn't terribly effective), in each year of that breakdown, regardless of how you twist it to make it hurt less. I simply do not want him at that price, even if the cap jumps up 12M in the second year suddenly, and his price isn't much of a hindrance.
Fair point on simply not wanting him back at that price point. I respect that. Its a different discussion, but I can respect that. But, can you at least acknowledge that the salary cap figure itself can be deceiving when you factor in how much the cap is going to rise?

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03-03-2014, 02:17 PM
  #27
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Fair point on simply not wanting him back at that price point. I respect that. Its a different discussion, but I can respect that. But, can you at least acknowledge that the salary cap figure itself can be deceiving when you factor in how much the cap is going to rise?
Of course. If we were talking about throwing gobs of money at someone genuinely worth it, I could even see using it to justify the expenditure. Ryan Callahan, I simply do not want to give this contract to. He is already not the player he was 2-3 years ago. He earned a reputation as one of THE hardest working and most adored players around when he was playing that way and that reputation is now what he's going to cash in on but he is already done living up to that reputation and whether he declines in a linear, year by year fashion from here on, or he stays at this diminished level for a bit before declining significantly more, I am not interested in any part of this contract.

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03-03-2014, 02:19 PM
  #28
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fair enough on Zucc.....but he is RFA. His big pay day wont come until after next year.
oh damn, that eluded me. so yeah, the sather-type 2 year bridge in the 3.5-4m range sounds good then.

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03-03-2014, 02:19 PM
  #29
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cally is my favorite player ever but i don't care for his attitude when it comes to this contract. he hasn't had a good year at all and he expects almost 7 million a year. hes come close to 30 goals once, what world is he living in? i'm incredibly biased towards cally and i dont think he deserves more than 5 million a year.
If you've been watching sports long enough you have to accept the business side of things and not take it so personal. As much as I like Callahan - I want to see this team go in a different direction. Regardless of how much he's looking for.

It's no different than Jagr was here. I loved him and he was a really solid player for us but it got to the point where we needed a change.

Same thing with Renney and even Torts. Both were solid coaches for our Blueshirts but it reached a point where it was time to move on from both.

Part of me feels like it's time for a new leader to step up in the lockerroom. Even if that player has been a career Ranger, like Girardi or Staal.

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03-03-2014, 02:21 PM
  #30
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It appears to be only a matter of time until a new deal is announced.
Still too much $ and term.


Last edited by N9Y4R: 03-03-2014 at 02:29 PM.
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03-03-2014, 02:21 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
If you've been watching sports long enough you have to accept the business side of things and not take it so personal. As much as I like Callahan - I want to see this team go in a different direction. Regardless of how much he's looking for.

It's no different than Jagr was here. I loved him and he was a really solid player for us but it got to the point where we needed a change.

Same thing with Renney and even Torts. Both were solid coaches for our Blueshirts but it reached a point where it was time to move on from both.

Part of me feels like it's time for a new leader to step up in the lockerroom. Even if that player has been a career Ranger, like Girardi or Staal.
and the team suffered in his absence and made stupid moves to replace him...like Zherdev.

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03-03-2014, 02:24 PM
  #32
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like which teams? and which players? people throw these platitudes out and i don't see examples of any of it. And what about his game shows he is declining? Or, is he just no longer the flavor of the month now. Soon to be replaced by someone 5 years younger than him who dazzles on youtube.
Platitudes my ass. Look at a team like SJ. Good prospects and young NHL players. They trade Clowe last season rather than have him walk for nothing or overpay him like NJ did. Got Thornton and Marleau to take a pay cut and 3 year term on their extensions. Pavelski signed for $6M for 5 years starting next season. Ditto for Couture. Looks like they're going to trade Dan Boyle or let him walk. They're making smart moves that help themselves now and in the future. That's just one team I looked at. There are definitely a few more.

And if you've been watching the same games I have the last two seasons, it's pretty damn obvious Callahan is declining. I could count the number of times he's made a big play this season on one hand. He used to influence every game with his hitting and forechecking. He simply doesn't do that anymore. Having a shiny new toy has absolutely nothing to do with it.

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03-03-2014, 02:24 PM
  #33
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I hate you Sather. Callahan has broken 50 points once. His best days are behind him. And we are gonna hand our 3rd liner a 6x6 contract.

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03-03-2014, 02:27 PM
  #34
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oh damn, that eluded me. so yeah, the sather-type 2 year bridge in the 3.5-4m range sounds good then.
This is an apples an oranges comparison. A bridge deal implicates that the player will still be a RFA at the end, likely 1-2 years away from UFA status. Zuccarello is 1 year from UFA, his current contract is basically his "bridge" deal.

Slats is going to have an interesting decision with Zuke, is he willing to give him a long term deal?

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03-03-2014, 02:28 PM
  #35
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Platitudes my ass. Look at a team like SJ. Good prospects and young NHL players. They trade Clowe last season rather than have him walk for nothing or overpay him like NJ did. Got Thornton and Marleau to take a pay cut and 3 year term on their extensions. Pavelski signed for $6M for 5 years starting next season. Ditto for Couture. Looks like they're going to trade Dan Boyle or let him walk. They're making smart moves that help themselves now and in the future. That's just one team I looked at. There are definitely a few more.

And if you've been watching the same games I have the last two seasons, it's pretty damn obvious Callahan is declining. I could count the number of times he's made a big play this season on one hand. He used to influence every game with his hitting and forechecking. He simply doesn't do that anymore. Having a shiny new toy has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Ryan Clowe didnt have any role on the Sharks last year, and, if i recall hadnt had a single goal for them when they traded him. Thornton and Marleau are both 34 and Boyle is 37. Parting with and/or tinkering with players 6 and 9 years older than Callahan is much different that what is going on here.

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Old
03-03-2014, 02:30 PM
  #36
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i agree it seems like too much, but with the cap rising, i have faith that the rangers will be able to afford it. hope so, at least. i also reckon callahan will play a bit better once this is all done-and-dusted. hopefully the rangers can add a decent scorer as well before thursday.

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03-03-2014, 02:32 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Ardi44 View Post
Ryan Clowe didnt have any role on the Sharks last year, and, if i recall hadnt had a single goal for them when they traded him. Thornton and Marleau are both 34 and Boyle is 37. Parting with and/or tinkering with players 6 and 9 years older than Callahan is much different that what is going on here.
Callahan has more wear on his body than any one of those players except maybe Dan Boyle. I love what Callahan has done for this team, but we can't afford to have $6M+ of cap space tied up in a player already showing startling signs of ineffectiveness/decline.

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Old
03-03-2014, 02:32 PM
  #38
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The other KEY here is whether or not strings are attached.

More years for more dough is harder to unload, if nec., but if we are moving toward Cally's turf, I hope we have no/minimal restrictions on trade/movement.

Yeah, getting top dollar now (not gonna happen) would be great, but if we get a good enough set of #s, even if have to eat half a mil or so a year, we can still move him AND GET GREAT ASSETS.

It is understood such move is inevitable.
Cally as Ranger 1-2 yrs is fine, but 6ish yrs would be killer.

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03-03-2014, 02:33 PM
  #39
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I can't wait until this entire thing is over.

The fastest way to make this board hate a player is to have their contract expire. Dubi, Step, Girardi, Cally, ****ing Henrik Lundqvist for ****s sake.

It's embarrassing.

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03-03-2014, 02:37 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
I can't wait until this entire thing is over.

The fastest way to make this board hate a player is to have their contract expire. Dubi, Step, Girardi, Cally, ****ing Henrik Lundqvist for ****s sake.

It's embarrassing.
Henrik got "hate" for playing arguably the worst hockey of his career while at the same time asking for a huge contract.

Cally is gettting very little hate. People love him, they just don't think he's worth the kind of money he's going to get.

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Old
03-03-2014, 02:38 PM
  #41
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Rossi is reporting Kesler wants to play for his USA coach, Bylsma, in Pittsburgh. Probably on Sid's wing.

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03-03-2014, 02:42 PM
  #42
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are we to resign every player whos contract comes up irregardless? no.

cally is asking for top line money. hes a 2/3 tweener trending down with a broken body and limited offensive upside. hes not worth 6/6.

anyone who agrees to his contract demands is a legit dope.

see, the thing is with contracts and negotiating, its always adversarial. its always minimize your positives and maximize the negative so as to get the best deal for your side. that the art of the deal. buy low, sell high... donald trump. all that.

hockey is a business. business isnt always nice. life isnt nice.

nothing personal but it is what it is, as they say.

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03-03-2014, 02:45 PM
  #43
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I'm not sure I'd want Cally at 5x5. 6x6 is just silly.

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03-03-2014, 02:46 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
Henrik got "hate" for playing arguably the worst hockey of his career while at the same time asking for a huge contract.

Cally is gettting very little hate. People love him, they just don't think he's worth the kind of money he's going to get.
Read the last 2 GDT. It was a disgusting display in there. Worse than it normally is.

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03-03-2014, 02:46 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Callagraves View Post
I can't wait until this entire thing is over.

The fastest way to make this board hate a player is to have their contract expire. Dubi, Step, Girardi, Cally, ****ing Henrik Lundqvist for ****s sake.

It's embarrassing.
FWIW, I had no problem with the Dubinsky, Stepan, or Girardi contract negotiations.

Lundqvist, on the other hand, raked us over the coals I thought. He was the highest paid goaltender from 2008/09 until Pekka Rinne's extension kicked in last season, edging him out by $125k. Starting next season, he's going to be the highest paid goaltender by $1M. It's not like the team has ever nickel and dimed Lundqvist, and he still milked every drop out of his new contract. And that's fine, but I'm going to rip him apart when plays like trash, whereas I might have more leniency on someone like McDonagh, who took at least $1M less than he could have gotten had he decided to play hardball.

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03-03-2014, 02:46 PM
  #46
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Not comparable to Jagr at all. Jagr was our best player every year he was here. Callahan hasn't been our best player ever.

Good player, sure. Leader, yea. Top offensive producer, no.

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03-03-2014, 02:48 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
are we to resign every player whos contract comes up irregardless? no.

cally is asking for top line money. hes a 2/3 tweener trending down with a broken body and limited offensive upside. hes not worth 6/6.

anyone who agrees to his contract demands is a legit dope.

see, the thing is with contracts and negotiating, its always adversarial. its always minimize your positives and maximize the negative so as to get the best deal for your side. that the art of the deal. buy low, sell high... donald trump. all that.

hockey is a business. business isnt always nice. life isnt nice.

nothing personal but it is what it is, as they say.
Couldnt agree more. If the Rangers do this, they are inept and we really have to question the plan (or lack there of) management has going forward. I understand the guy is a captain and the intangibles are sought after in the room. I get it. But you need to look at the player and what he provides on the ice - and more importantly what he WILL provide in 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 years down the line.

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03-03-2014, 02:48 PM
  #48
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and the team suffered in his absence and made stupid moves to replace him...like Zherdev.
Suffered in his absence? That's nonsense.

So are you advocating the Rangers are going to suffer by moving Callahan instead of re-signing him?

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03-03-2014, 02:50 PM
  #49
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Read the last 2 GDT. It was a disgusting display in there. Worse than it normally is.
GDTs are emotional and people take stuff too far sometimes. Contract talk will always cause frustration and when you mix those two together you get stupid statements.

It doesn't mean posters hate him. I bet half the posters who want him gone with the demands he's making, would rank him in the top three of their favorite current rangers.

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03-03-2014, 02:52 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
are we to resign every player whos contract comes up irregardless? no.

cally is asking for top line money. hes a 2/3 tweener trending down with a broken body and limited offensive upside. hes not worth 6/6.

anyone who agrees to his contract demands is a legit dope.

see, the thing is with contracts and negotiating, its always adversarial. its always minimize your positives and maximize the negative so as to get the best deal for your side. that the art of the deal. buy low, sell high... donald trump. all that.

hockey is a business. business isnt always nice. life isnt nice.

nothing personal but it is what it is, as they say.
I don't want to split hairs but he's not asking for top line money. Vanek is probably going to ask for something like 10 million per.

You're right about it being a business. When you negotiate for x amount of dollars, you don't ask for x, you ask for x + y. It seems like a lot of fans have been insulted by Callahan. I'm sure Girardi's agent bounced around some pretty high figures before they agreed to a deal. His negotiations just haven't been as public.

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