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Considering the Forsberg deal...

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Old
02-16-2007, 09:46 AM
  #26
wedge
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I've always said that it was important to keep Soury to go deep in the playoffs.. but the way the team has played lately and the fact that we presently are out of the playoffs, I think it's the chance to get a nice return for him.

And I really cross my fingers thaat we resign him this summer because I love that type of player.

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Old
02-16-2007, 09:47 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mojoe View Post
The point is that we MUST trade Souray, otherwise we'll lose him anyway AND miss the playoffs...
So true...

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Old
02-16-2007, 09:51 AM
  #28
Pere Noel
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
If Souray is traded, he will fetch less than Forsberg.
We shall see.

If we were to get Vlasic and a 1st round, I would call it a better return than what the Flyers got for Forsberg.

I would rather have Vlasic over Parent...and the rest of the deal are spare parts.

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Old
02-16-2007, 09:56 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by GaineyIsGod View Post
I wouldn't be sure, if Bernier was doing so good, he would be in the Bigs. Honestly 44 fits well with the Sharks, i could see this happening.
Bernier was sent down, as Carle did, to get back his confedence. He isn't back up because he got injured.

On top of That SJ has no real need for Souray. They have the best PP on the league. Ehrhoff and Carle are doing a fine job. They would rather have a very solid defensive D then anything.

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Old
02-16-2007, 10:20 AM
  #30
Pere Noel
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Originally Posted by NORiculous View Post
Bernier was sent down, as Carle did, to get back his confedence. He isn't back up because he got injured.

On top of That SJ has no real need for Souray. They have the best PP on the league. Ehrhoff and Carle are doing a fine job. They would rather have a very solid defensive D then anything.
I posted on the SJ board an analysis on the potential impact of Souray to their power play.... (it could go up to 27.5% success rate). That would make their power play the ultimate killing machine.

SJ's power play is doing so well because of 3 forwards, and has little contribution from their defensemen.

Montreal has the 2nd best power play mainly because of Souray while having lousy forwards in comparison.

If I were them, I would do the deal. It's a win-win

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Old
02-16-2007, 11:52 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Pere Noel View Post
I posted on the SJ board an analysis on the potential impact of Souray to their power play.... (it could go up to 27.5% success rate). That would make their power play the ultimate killing machine.

SJ's power play is doing so well because of 3 forwards, and has little contribution from their defensemen.

Montreal has the 2nd best power play mainly because of Souray while having lousy forwards in comparison.
If I were them, I would do the deal. It's a win-win
I don't see it as a win-win. I think the Habs get the better end of it simply because SJ does not need a PP QB. As stated before, Ehrhoff and Carle are fine.

I just don't see SJ as a good trading partner. (I'm not sure how you come up with the 27.5%.) Eitherway, Bernier is a horse when he drives to the net; the main reason he was sent down was to drive to it more, as he was doing at the start of the year. I would not give up Bernier in order to get a fix for the PP that is working fine.

Want Bernier? talk about Komisarek.


Last edited by NORiculous: 02-16-2007 at 11:59 AM.
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Old
02-16-2007, 11:59 AM
  #32
Pere Noel
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Originally Posted by NORiculous View Post
I don't see it as a win-win. I think the Habs get the better end of it simply because SJ does not need a PP QB. As stated before, Ehrhoff and Carle are fine.

I just don't see SJ as a good trading partner. (I'm not sure how you come up with the 27.5%.) Eitherway, Bernier is a horse when he drives to the net; the main reason he was sent down was to drive to it more, as he was doing at the start of the year. I would not give up Bernier in order to get a fix for the PP that is working fine.
There is a difference between "does not need" and "will get even better"

I don't care for bernier... I would go for vlasik.

For the estimate... remove the production of the worst defencemen amongst the 10 top SJ PP specialist, replace that with Souray's... that give a rough estimate. Now whenever one does an estimate like that... people start saying it is not a good estimate and such... but before stating such thing... it is said, that an estimate is better no estimate.

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:04 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Pere Noel View Post
I have to agree with your comment that Souray alone can not fetch Bernier and Carle (not that I would focus on Bernier in an ultimate deal).

But your argument does not hold. Forsberg's value was diminished because of his major health problems... he is a serious risk. Souray, to the right team could fetch just as much as a risky Forsberg.
Still....a Forsberg with health issues has much more value then Souray. Forsberg is a franchise player.

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:09 PM
  #34
Evil Ted
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
Still....a Forsberg with health issues has much more value then Souray. Forsberg is a franchise player.
Yea for sure but Souray could mean alot more he can take a regular shift as a defenceman against any of the other teams forwards.

Forsberg is going to want to avoid playing against teams or players who attempt to rough him up, this guy could be one hit away from retirement.

Souray is much less of a risk, you know what your going to get with him, again if Forsberg is the top UFA forward at the deadline then Souray would be the top UFA defenceman at the deadline aswell.

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:16 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
Yea for sure but Souray could mean alot more he can take a regular shift as a defenceman against any of the other teams forwards.

Forsberg is going to want to avoid playing against teams or players who attempt to rough him up, this guy could be one hit away from retirement.

Souray is much less of a risk, you know what your going to get with him, again if Forsberg is the top UFA forward at the deadline then Souray would be the top UFA defenceman at the deadline aswell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
Still....a Forsberg with health issues has much more value then Souray. Forsberg is a franchise player.

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
Yea for sure but Souray could mean alot more he can take a regular shift as a defenceman against any of the other teams forwards.

Forsberg is going to want to avoid playing against teams or players who attempt to rough him up, this guy could be one hit away from retirement.

Souray is much less of a risk, you know what your going to get with him, again if Forsberg is the top UFA forward at the deadline then Souray would be the top UFA defenceman at the deadline aswell.
Look....if the Flyers had called Montreal and asked for a Souray for Forsberg swap.....The team would have jumped on that and thrown a party.

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:35 PM
  #37
Pere Noel
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
Look....if the Flyers had called Montreal and asked for a Souray for Forsberg swap.....The team would have jumped on that and thrown a party.
Really?

Not me.

A more realistic comparison is Doug Weight who was healthy...

As a forward... he had 44 points in 47 games, -11 when traded... and he was 35 year old.

Souray as a defenseman has 47 points in 58 games, -13... he is the main reason our PP is where it is... he is 30 year old.

There is no reason we can not fetch more than what Weight fetched last year.
"St. Louis Blues traded Doug Weight and the rights to Erkki Rajamaki to the Carolina Hurricanes for Jesse Boulerice, Mike Zigomanis, the rights to Magnus Kahnberg, a 1 st and a 4th round selections in 2006 and a 4th round selection in 2007."

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:41 PM
  #38
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considering everything, we really have to move any player that could give us a good return. In a caop era all that this weill do is give us cap space to build a solid core.

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:46 PM
  #39
Evil Ted
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
Look....if the Flyers had called Montreal and asked for a Souray for Forsberg swap.....The team would have jumped on that and thrown a party.
That deal wouldnt happen for so many reasons and I dont feel like making the effort to explain.

Its a matter of opinion really, they are differnt players for sure I will admit Forsberg when healthy is one of the elite centers in the league, but hes not that healthy right now hes had a hard time staying in the lineup durring regular season games, what makes you think he will fare any better in the playoffs when its crunch time?

So many variables can be figured into the situation but I can see Souray fetching simalar prospects and maybe even more, to the right team.

Again its a matter of opinion consider what other playres fetched at the deadline last year and so far this year you can see there is a very viable market for UFAs who can log 1st and 2nd unit icetimes, Souray fits into that category.

It remains to be seen no doubt and I have a feeling he wont be moved at all.

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:52 PM
  #40
NORiculous
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Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
That deal wouldnt happen for so many reasons and I dont feel like making the effort to explain.

Its a matter of opinion really, they are differnt players for sure I will admit Forsberg when healthy is one of the elite centers in the league, but hes not that healthy right now hes had a hard time staying in the lineup durring regular season games, what makes you think he will fare any better in the playoffs when its crunch time?

So many variables can be figured into the situation but I can see Souray fetching simalar prospects and maybe even more, to the right team.

Again its a matter of opinion consider what other playres fetched at the deadline last year and so far this year you can see there is a very viable market for UFAs who can log 1st and 2nd unit icetimes, Souray fits into that category.

It remains to be seen no doubt and I have a feeling he wont be moved at all.
The thing with Souray is his 5on5 game... I mean sure he is great on the PP but thats the only part of his game that is on a comparable level with Peter, IMO anyway.

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Old
02-16-2007, 12:52 PM
  #41
Marc the Habs Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znk View Post
Still....a Forsberg with health issues has much more value then Souray. Forsberg is a franchise player.

2 things to remember though.

Forsberg's cap hit was 5.75 M. Not many teams could add him while keeping their whole team intact like Nashville did. Souray's cap hit is 2.4 M or so. Basically EVERY contender can fit him in, it's only ~ 600 K needed in cap space as we get closer to the deadline.

Forsberg had a NTC and controlled his location. Souray does not.

Now, I am not saying we can get that type of return, but I wouldn't discout the possibility of getting a lot either...

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Old
02-16-2007, 01:57 PM
  #42
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I can't believe I am saying this but after seeing that package I immediately though it might be time to trade Souray.

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Old
02-16-2007, 01:59 PM
  #43
Pere Noel
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
2 things to remember though.

Forsberg's cap hit was 5.75 M. Not many teams could add him while keeping their whole team intact like Nashville did. Souray's cap hit is 2.4 M or so. Basically EVERY contender can fit him in, it's only ~ 600 K needed in cap space as we get closer to the deadline.

Forsberg had a NTC and controlled his location. Souray does not.

Now, I am not saying we can get that type of return, but I wouldn't discout the possibility of getting a lot either...
You are making excellent points... we can market him to more teams then. Hence more bidding.

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