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Old
02-16-2007, 07:24 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Not good to see a division rival load up like that. Not good at all.
I agree. They are going to be a force in the future. And then add the Pens and the Devils to the equation, and it gets really scary. Considering that in the last decade all of those teams made the playoffs more than the Rangers have, one really has to scratch his head. How do the Flyers, an annual contender, have such a great young core? Or the Devils? And here are the Rangers, the only team in the league attempting a rebuild without young players.

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02-16-2007, 08:58 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
I agree. They are going to be a force in the future. And then add the Pens and the Devils to the equation, and it gets really scary. Considering that in the last decade all of those teams made the playoffs more than the Rangers have, one really has to scratch his head. How do the Flyers, an annual contender, have such a great young core? Or the Devils? And here are the Rangers, the only team in the league attempting a rebuild without young players.
how?

management

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02-17-2007, 12:27 AM
  #53
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Hand's down, mainly because of health.

If I'm a Flyers fan I am very happy.

If I'm a division rival fan (which I am) I'm concerned.

Philly has a VERY nice cupboard of young players.
Not really. They young players they have are already with the team. In the system, they still lack a future NHL goalie, let alone a future potential starter. They also lack defenders, and after hearing about Parent's back, that dampens the deal a little bit. Parent's upside by the way is a top-4 defender, but he has the ability to be one of the better shutdown defenders in the league. Upshall has the potential to be a 20-goal 50-60 point 2nd line winger, if you ask me. But nothing very special. The 1st rounder they get will be bottom of the barrel. This deal helps bring them out of the bottom of the basement. There's still a lot to be desired in their system, and I'm not really sold on Richards' offensive numbers being high. Carter isn't looking like the future 1st line power center I thought he'd be. Potulny will be lucky if he scores 30 one day.

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Originally Posted by GarretJoseph View Post
With NYR restocking the youth..Pitts with all the studs...Flyers with all these nice young players & Lou still running the Devils and how he always finds gems in the draft.... the Islanders must be scared for the years ahead....

I know the Fishsticks have some good prospects but I would place them last in our division when it comes to prospects/young studs... any thoughts on my order?

1. Pitts
2. NYR
3. Philly (maybe 2nd now after that trade...?)
4. Devils
5. Islanders
No way, the Islanders have a better prospect core than the Devils and Philly. All Philly has added is Parent, who comes with a bulging disc in his back. It still does little to address that they have no future NHL talent in terms of defenders and goalies. And the only two forwards worth a damn in their system are Giroux and Ruzicka.

I would also say the Rangers have better propsects right now than anyone in that division.

In Pittsburgh, Malkin and Staal are not prospects anymore, so that pretty much dries up the talent pool down there. I mean they still have Goligoski, Christensen, Letang, and Welch, but not much after that.

As for Jersey, Zajac really isn't a prospect anymore, so you're looking at Bergfors and Corrente as their 2 best, with Vasyunov, a guy who has the potential to be deadly, but is a boom or bust type player, Tallackson, a 3rd line checking winger with some scoring touch if you ask me, and Frazee, a servicable backup, not too far behind.

The Islanders have some nice forwards. I really don't consider Nilsson a prospect anymore, as he played 50+ games last year, but Okposo has the makings of a stud, O'Marra has the makings of a solid two-way 2nd liner like a Michael Peca, persay, Tambellini will be a solid 2nd line scoring winger, Joensuu's stock has dropped drastically from being the #1 ranked forward for the 06 draft in October of 04... but even still, he has some upside, but I don't see him being more than a 2nd line power winger at his best. Nokelainen and Comeau could be good checking players. But aside from Dustin Kohn and Wes O'Neill, they don't have a defender that has the potential to play in the NHL anymore, and Dubie is not a prospect anymore for them in net, so they have NO ONE that even comes close to being an NHL caliber netminder to back up DiPietro one day.

I like where the Rangers are. They lack the top-flight talents that some other teams have, but they're so incredibly balanced that they're one or two pieces (forward mostly) away from being a REAL DANGEROUS looking team in the future. Look at the forwards... we've got two solid centers in Anisimov and Dubinsky, and Artem has the potential to be a 1st liner, although it's a very safe bet that he'll be a 2nd line center. Dubinsky has made huge strides to be where he is, and despite a slow start, has been great of late in Hartford. Ryan Callahan is 3rd in goals in the AHL as a rookie... and he's another guy that was said to be a 3rd liner... now he's making everyone question his upside... could there be more? Nigel Dawes has the potential to be a 20-30 goal 2nd line winger, if he's ever given an 'effin chance. Tom Pyatt has the potential to be a Selke Caliber two-way forward, if you ask me. From what I saw from him at the WJC, his smarts were on a level that you don't see from most players that age. Nevermind Al Montoya's dominance of the AHL in net. He's a near lock to be a future elite goaltender. Then, we have some real good players on defense. Marc Staal has started to produce a bit more offensively as of recent, and is well known for his defense. Just check out footage from him shutting down top forwards at the last two WJC's, being named top defender at the 06 tournament. Bobby Sanguinetti has 21 goals and 44 points in only 56 games this season. He's going to be one hell of an offensive defenseman. Michael Sauer if he can stay healthy is going to be an invaluable two-way shutdown type defender. He will be the heart and soul of the defense. Ivan Baranka will be a real nasty stay-at-home type defender.

We're just one or two pieces away. Pittsburgh has had their elite talents graduate. Philly is just not deep at all. The Islanders lack defenders and goaltenders, but have a good thing going at forward, and the Devils aren't deep at any position, but have some talent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I've said all along that people will be surprised by how much Philly would get back if they traded Forsberg.
I'll have a nice order of crow, heh.

Honestly, the Nagy trade was the standard for these deals. So once I saw that one, I knew was going to be eating crow. Although, I do look at the deal a bit differently now with Parent having a bulging disc in his back.

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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
After 2007 draft it is safe to say that NYR will be slightly after Flyers in terms of talent. Depends who we pick in our 1st round. I also do not think Flyers are done dealing (well I hope we trade a few more players (Calder, Sanderson, Esche, maybe Hatcher, maybe York).
Dude, give it a break. You know nothing about the Rangers farm system.

You got an injured Ryan Parent, and Scott Upshall, a player whose upside is a 20 goal 2nd line winger at best. The 1st rounder isn't going to be that high either. I don't think anybody wants the players you just named either, as Hatcher is an overpaid traffic cone, York is out-of-shape and overpaid, Sanderson is on the downside of his career, and Esche just sucks. It's sad, I figured Sanderson would thrive under the new rules. Speed has been his game for the longest time, and if you've got speed to burn in this new game, you can light it up.

Fact is, the Flyers farm system still sucks. You have NO GOALTENDING, which is a BIG PROBLEM. You're pencil-thin on defense behind Parent, who has a bulging disc in his back. My father has the same condition. Got it 20 years ago in a bad auto accident in which he was a passenger, and still feels it from time to time. In all likelyhood, it won't just go away. At forward, behind Giroux and Ruzicka, there is no depth aside from Downie, who is a Sean Avery clone, and Nodl, whose upside is that of a 2nd liner, at his very best.

The Flyers could use a lot more improvement in the farm system before they're even mentioned in the same sentence as the Rangers' farm system.

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Old
02-17-2007, 12:57 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Dude, give it a break. You know nothing about the Rangers farm system.

You got an injured Ryan Parent, and Scott Upshall, a player whose upside is a 20 goal 2nd line winger at best. The 1st rounder isn't going to be that high either. I don't think anybody wants the players you just named either, as Hatcher is an overpaid traffic cone, York is out-of-shape and overpaid, Sanderson is on the downside of his career, and Esche just sucks. It's sad, I figured Sanderson would thrive under the new rules. Speed has been his game for the longest time, and if you've got speed to burn in this new game, you can light it up.

Fact is, the Flyers farm system still sucks. You have NO GOALTENDING, which is a BIG PROBLEM. You're pencil-thin on defense behind Parent, who has a bulging disc in his back. My father has the same condition. Got it 20 years ago in a bad auto accident in which he was a passenger, and still feels it from time to time. In all likelyhood, it won't just go away. At forward, behind Giroux and Ruzicka, there is no depth aside from Downie, who is a Sean Avery clone, and Nodl, whose upside is that of a 2nd liner, at his very best.

The Flyers could use a lot more improvement in the farm system before they're even mentioned in the same sentence as the Rangers' farm system.
Me-ow!

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02-17-2007, 01:09 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Dude, give it a break. You know nothing about the Rangers farm system.

You got an injured Ryan Parent, and Scott Upshall, a player whose upside is a 20 goal 2nd line winger at best. The 1st rounder isn't going to be that high either. I don't think anybody wants the players you just named either, as Hatcher is an overpaid traffic cone, York is out-of-shape and overpaid, Sanderson is on the downside of his career, and Esche just sucks. It's sad, I figured Sanderson would thrive under the new rules. Speed has been his game for the longest time, and if you've got speed to burn in this new game, you can light it up.

Fact is, the Flyers farm system still sucks. You have NO GOALTENDING, which is a BIG PROBLEM. You're pencil-thin on defense behind Parent, who has a bulging disc in his back. My father has the same condition. Got it 20 years ago in a bad auto accident in which he was a passenger, and still feels it from time to time. In all likelyhood, it won't just go away. At forward, behind Giroux and Ruzicka, there is no depth aside from Downie, who is a Sean Avery clone, and Nodl, whose upside is that of a 2nd liner, at his very best.

The Flyers could use a lot more improvement in the farm system before they're even mentioned in the same sentence as the Rangers' farm system.
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Me-ow!

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02-17-2007, 01:45 AM
  #56
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Glad we didn't pick him up..... That's all I've got.

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02-17-2007, 01:54 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Al Morganti reported that Parent has really bad chronic back problems. This might not be as GREAT a deal for Philly as some think. Bulging disk apparantly.
bulging disks can be corrected. I am not worried at all.
If the Flyers were worried they wouldnt have taken him in the deal.

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02-17-2007, 02:45 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Dude, give it a break. You know nothing about the Rangers farm system.
You got an injured Ryan Parent, and Scott Upshall, a player whose upside is a 20 goal 2nd line winger at best.
Now Parent is injury prone and 20 goal scorer is bad? 2nd winger at best? What kind of crap is that. lol
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
I don't think anybody wants the players you just named either, as Hatcher is an overpaid traffic cone,
Philly newspaper reported 3 teams are after Hatcher.. I guess you know better?
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
York is out-of-shape and overpaid,
UFA next season. Why are you talking about York lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Sanderson is on the downside of his career, and Esche just sucks. It's sad, I figured Sanderson would thrive under the new rules. Speed has been his game for the longest time, and if you've got speed to burn in this new game, you can light it up.
Sanderson is 3rd line player. Esche is UFA next season or traded this season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
At forward, behind Giroux and Ruzicka, there is no depth aside from Downie, who is a Sean Avery clone, and Nodl, whose upside is that of a 2nd liner, at his very best.
Downie is scoring 2 points per game in OHL.. What the hell are you talking about? Downie will own Avery in 3 years. You got to be an idiot to compare those two. You just named 4 players, now count how many young players Flyers have in NHL... You keep missing this major point. We do not have a lot of depth because our young players are in NHL. While your players keep playing in AHL and get no oppotunity to play.

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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
The Flyers could use a lot more improvement in the farm system before they're even mentioned in the same sentence as the Rangers' farm system.
Flyers will draft Kane or Esposito or Cherepanov with our pick and get something good with Preds pick and Rangers will not be able to match it.

Flyers D-man Pitkanen (Rangers have no player like Joni in NHL right now), Picard (plays in his 1st NHL season has more points then Tyutin), Parent (Injury prone according to you), Bartulis (42 points in 45 games), Jonsson (just crossed over from Sweden former 7th over all).

I am not even going to compare fowards. Because your depth at forwards is a joke and simply can not match Flyers depth. Your players are not ready to step up this yar or next year. So who cares? I love your take on Richards and Carter and how you are not impressed with them. They are 22 years old. Get a clue! They are not Crosbys, Malkins. It will take longer for them to develop.. While in your book Dubinsky, (and his big strides 11 goals in almost 50 games) will be 2nd line player and Tom Pyatt plays Selke caliber d, etc etc. Awesome..

Flyers graduating 2-3 player a year. While Rangers use vets and missing playoffs. Prucha is becoming a punching bag, Tyutin is showing no improvement from last year.
Flyers have 8 players under 25 years old playing in NHL. What do Rangers have?
Carter
Richards
Umberger
Picard
Eager
Pitkanen
Potulny (returned to AHL)
Upshall (just got him)

So far... Flyers missed one year of playoffs.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 02-17-2007 at 10:54 AM.
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02-17-2007, 05:06 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Tyutin is showing no improvement from last year.
You're making plenty of good points about Flyers prospects and most knowledgeable Ranger fans will concede that you guys have an impressive group of youngsters but this quote shows you obviously know as much about the Rangers as GretzNYR99 knows about the Flyers'.

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02-17-2007, 10:39 AM
  #60
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You're making plenty of good points about Flyers prospects and most knowledgeable Ranger fans will concede that you guys have an impressive group of youngsters but this quote shows you obviously know as much about the Rangers as GretzNYR99 knows about the Flyers'.
He didn't, just like some Flyers players this season taken a few steps back this season (doesn't mean Tyutin sucks) BUT this Flyers team is going nowhere this season.
Gretz.. mentioned that our farm system sucks while we have more younger players who currently in NHL and our prospects just as good and like I mentioned before... so far Flyers will miss only one playoff year while Rangers were out of the picture for almost a decade.
Flyers do not have goalie prospects. I admit.. No shame. Rangers are much better in this department because of Montoya but Grez s arguing that Rangers are deeper and better at forward position and much better at d which is not true.


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02-17-2007, 11:22 AM
  #61
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Thank God We Didnt Do Anythying Like That....a Payment Like That Would Hurt Us For Another 7 Yrs........you Have To Remember...sooner Or Later All These Young Studs Are Gonna Demand Big Contracts....theres No Way Pitts And Philly Will Be Able To Keep All Their Young Guns When Its Time To Hand Out Raises
First:

You get the young studs.

Second:

If they pan out you worry about who to keep.

To think that Pitt's and/or Philly's position might be a problem in the future because of an embarassment of riches is outright bizarre. We should only be so lucky to worry about that sort of a scenario as Rangers fans.

There is zero downside to compiling a great young team. None. Especially when comparing it to the opposite. Would you prefer to accumulate mediocre talent and not have to worry about other teams wanting our players? If so, there may be an opening in Rangers management for you.

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02-17-2007, 11:25 AM
  #62
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Ah, pittsburgh is only going to be good for a few years. Once Crosby, Malik, Staal, etc. get into their mid 20's they're going to be wanting A LOT of money and then the team is going to break apart. That's IF Pittsburgh even stays put. Heck, they could be out of the division in a few years.
Never mind that Pitt may have a few Cups by then. Isn't that sort of the goal here?

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02-17-2007, 11:31 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
Al Morganti reported that Parent has really bad chronic back problems. This might not be as GREAT a deal for Philly as some think. Bulging disk apparantly.
There's nothing chronic about it. If Morganti used that word, he's a ****ing moron.

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02-17-2007, 11:32 AM
  #64
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How do the Flyers, an annual contender, have such a great young core? Or the Devils? And here are the Rangers, the only team in the league attempting a rebuild without young players.
Maybe it's because of Gwen Sather.

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02-17-2007, 11:35 AM
  #65
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There's no question that this is a great deal for the Flyers. And if Forsberg comes back next year? Wow.

Question: why is everyone so certain that he will re-sign in Philly? Seems odd to me - one would think his emotional attachment would be for Colorado...

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02-17-2007, 11:44 AM
  #66
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I would also say the Rangers have better propsects right now than anyone in that division.
Let's not even argue that point for now.

What you left out in your post addressing everyone's future strength and weaknesses within the division is that the Rangers current strength is Jagr, Shanahan, Straka and Nylander, along with Lundqvist. When this "treasure trove" of young Rangers talent arrives the aforementioned folks will no longer be here. You have to subtract our big 4 offensive players when figuring our future. The other teams in the division don't have similar problems.

The other teams in the division have much better young talent already in the Bigs. That's the huge difference between the franchises.

Aside from Tyutin and Lundqvist we have nothing even close to a major young player on the current roster. Prucha used to look good but I'm beginning to think that he will never be able to stand up to the physical rigors required, at least not until he understands that he has to look up while he skates.

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02-17-2007, 11:49 AM
  #67
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Let's not even argue that point for now.

What you left out in your post addressing everyone's future strength and weaknesses within the division is that the Rangers current strength is Jagr, Shanahan, Straka and Nylander, along with Lundqvist. When this "treasure trove" of young Rangers talent arrives the aforementioned folks will no longer be here. You have to subtract our big 4 offensive players when figuring our future. The other teams in the division don't have similar problems.

The other teams in the division have much better young talent already in the Bigs. That's the huge difference between the franchises.

Aside from Tyutin and Lundqvist we have nothing even close to a major young player on the current roster. Prucha used to look good but I'm beginning to think that he will never be able to stand up to the physical rigors required, at least not until he understands that he has to look up while he skates.
I wouldn't go that far. Who exactly is taking over in NJ when Brodeur retires? That is as big a hole to fill for anyone in the division.

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02-17-2007, 11:57 AM
  #68
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I wouldn't go that far. Who exactly is taking over in NJ when Brodeur retires? That is as big a hole to fill for anyone in the division.
the devils have been trying to figure that out for years... but it seems all their goalie picks flop in the past while, although there is no arguing their drafting of forwards and defensemen

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02-17-2007, 12:07 PM
  #69
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You're making plenty of good points about Flyers prospects and most knowledgeable Ranger fans will concede that you guys have an impressive group of youngsters but this quote shows you obviously know as much about the Rangers as GretzNYR99 knows about the Flyers'.
And you know more?

The fact is that the young talent they have is already at the NHL level. They've got us there. But there's a reason why their farm system is ranked 30th out of 30 on HF. Take it for what it is, but I think I've got you here.

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He didn't, just like some Flyers players this season taken a few steps back this season (doesn't mean Tyutin sucks) BUT this Flyers team is going nowhere this season.
Gretz.. mentioned that our farm system sucks while we have more younger players who currently in NHL and our prospects just as good and like I mentioned before... so far Flyers will miss only one playoff year while Rangers were out of the picture for almost a decade.
Flyers do not have goalie prospects. I admit.. No shame. Rangers are much better in this department because of Montoya but Grez s arguing that Rangers are deeper and better at forward position and much better at d which is not true.
You really have trouble reading, don't you? You just can't comprehend what I'm saying, either, can you?

It doesn't matter about what you have at the NHL level, because that is not the issue that I'm discussing. I'm talking about YOUR FARM SYSTEM. Or in other words YOUR PROSPECTS. You lack depth down in the farm system in all categories, that's why HF has you ranked 30th out of 30 in PROSPECT DEPTH.

Everytime I say that you have no depth in the farm system, you come back with this ******** about how you have talent at the NHL level. I don't care about that, that's not what I'm talking about. Notice how not once have I named anyone at the NHL level. I could easily talk about how Lundqvist is leaps and bounds better than any of the young talent that Philly has, but I haven't... why? Because that's not what I'm talking about.

Get it through your head that when I say prospects, I mean players that are in your farm system, playing for the Phantoms, an NCAA team, or a CHL team. Not players that are playing with the Flyers. This means that players like Carter, Richards, and Umberger, are not prospects.




LOL, the Flyers are deeper at the forward position?!? How so? Aside from Potulny, Giroux, and Ruzicka, you guys don't have a forward that stands a chance of cracking the top-6. Nodl? He has an outside shot, not a real good one. Downie, the guy you lied about being the WJC MVP - Bergeronnnnnn - in 2005? Sure, if you put Sean Avery in your top-6, because that's all he's gonna be, a Sean Avery clone who mugs his own teammates because he's a damn racist. I can't wait until Jack Johnson gets a piece of him at the NHL level. And the Flyers are deeper on defense with a player who has what could be chronic injury? One prospect doesn't make a whole system. Parent is the only defensive prospect the Flyers have that stands a chance of being a top-4 defender. The Rangers have, Staal, Sanguinetti, Sauer, and Ivan Baranka, who all could be top-4 material. Staal and Sanguinetti could easily be a future top-pairing, and Sauer could be a top-pairing guy himself because of his defensive prowess. At forward, Callahan is 3rd in AHL goals scored as a rookie. You wanna say something about him? Dawes is ready to play at the NHL level, but the moron Renney won't give him his shot. I know you just love Dubinsky, as you do nothing but call him fat, he has the potential to be a solid 2nd line center. Pyatt will be a top two-way forward one day. Artem Anisimov has the potential to be a 1st line center.

I don't care about how many years of the playoffs you haven't missed, screwball. The Cryers still haven't won a cup in over 30 years, and probably aren't going to win one for another 30. At least I was alive, and was a fan when the Rangers won a cup.

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02-17-2007, 12:52 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Let's not even argue that point for now.

What you left out in your post addressing everyone's future strength and weaknesses within the division is that the Rangers current strength is Jagr, Shanahan, Straka and Nylander, along with Lundqvist. When this "treasure trove" of young Rangers talent arrives the aforementioned folks will no longer be here. You have to subtract our big 4 offensive players when figuring our future. The other teams in the division don't have similar problems.
I know this, but what you didn't factor in there are UFA signings, and other trades. Every team has a problem of some sort. Lundqvist will be here. Some of the prospects will be traded for a young stud.

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The other teams in the division have much better young talent already in the Bigs. That's the huge difference between the franchises.

Aside from Tyutin and Lundqvist we have nothing even close to a major young player on the current roster. Prucha used to look good but I'm beginning to think that he will never be able to stand up to the physical rigors required, at least not until he understands that he has to look up while he skates.
Again, what I've been saying is farm systems, not at the NHL level, there is a big difference.

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02-17-2007, 03:10 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
The fact is that the young talent they have is already at the NHL level. They've got us there.
Yes and that really is rqather the point of both drafting and a farm system, is it not? In five years nobody will care who had the better set of prospects in 2007. We'll care about whcih team is closer to winning a championship.

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But there's a reason why their farm system is ranked 30th out of 30 on HF. Take it for what it is, but I think I've got you here.
Only if you consider a fan site to be a stupendously accurate vehicle for evaluating talent.

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02-17-2007, 03:12 PM
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I wouldn't go that far. Who exactly is taking over in NJ when Brodeur retires? That is as big a hole to fill for anyone in the division.
The upside for the Devils is that you need only one good goalie. If they've not drafted a replacement for Brodeur by then, such a need can be filled through FA or trade.

Any championship caliber team will need more than one 1st-line quality player, and that makes the Rangers' situation a bit more dire.

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02-17-2007, 03:56 PM
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Well if we do not consider the graduation of Carter, Richards, Umberger, Eager, Picard and Potulny.

In that case Rangers have better prospects then Pittsburgh too, because after Malkin, Crosby, Staal, Ouellet, Christensen, Fluery etc etc made to NHL they have nothing or almost nothing left.

Following this logic.. Potentially, NYR should win Atlantic real soon.. ha-ha-ha

Gretz... enjoy... You won.

After this Saturday… I think Upshall is a pleasant surprise.

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02-17-2007, 06:27 PM
  #74
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Fact is, the Flyers farm system still sucks.

The Flyers could use a lot more improvement in the farm system before they're even mentioned in the same sentence as the Rangers' farm system.
Come on, here. The Flyer crappy farm system turned out Gagne, Carter & Richards, all sure-fire top-6, if not top-3 type of forwards. Whom are you going to tout from the Rangers farm system that even compares? I only wish that the Rangers farm sucked this much.

That is not even mentioning Umberger, whom Sather had no use for.

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02-17-2007, 09:27 PM
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Does this mean MSG can't play the Bobby Grainger commercial where he yells "Forsberg, you suck! You beeping piece of beep beep!" anymore? That was my favorite.


Sam: And we have Bobby Grainger in the booth with us, as the Rangers take on the Philadelphia Flyers, Forsberg is taking the ice...

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